BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236063#Comment_118236063

Interesting.

Was there a big clearout at Liffey Valley out of curiosity?

You would hope that some of the people who use the C1 and C2 to get from Adamstown and South Lucan will slowly realise that the L53 and the L51 will do that trip for some of them far faster.

That kind of change in behaviour won't happen overnight though as people take time to adjust their habits.

Kyriakos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236038#Comment_118236038

The reality is this is the first time the public are seeing first hand the NTA at work and its not good, we drivers have know this for years and fact is have said it but many refuse to believe it, well now you know drivers have not been lying, all the other problems passengers have with DB will also be the NTA's work, you will soon come to realise that as the NTA now are seen to be calling all the shots, all the decisions are removed from DB they now follow the NTA's orders.

The old adage "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236075#Comment_118236075

I would say about 5 or 6 got off at Liffey Valley. Bus was basically full to Bachelor's Walk. As with the 239, I'm sure people will be delighted to use a quicker alternative that gets them closer to the shopping centre... if it shows up. But they're not going to let a C1/2 pass and wait around for the L routes just in case. "Operational Issues" meaning no shows are very common on 25a and 239 so people have been burned already. They'll take what shows up first.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236082#Comment_118236082

Well now let's be honest here. Dublin Bus had to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the dark ages in certain respects, so I would not be painting the company as being completely blameless. But I suspect that doesn't suit your agenda?

I am happy to criticise the NTA about the information problems, but there are wider issues at play here than simply everything being the NTA's fault.

Hippodrome Song Owl

DB has been sending several additional buses on the inbound 25a between 6.30 and 8.30 (at least) for months. I sincerely hope the supposed increased frequency on C1 will be up to the task tomorrow with it now serving an extra population of several thousand too.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236040#Comment_118236040

Agree on pretty much everything there but especially the Garda parking behind Pearse St Station. It's outrageous at times.

Yeah Townsend St stop could do with a shelter alright but the path is very narrow at the moment with the site hoarding so far out. You'd hope there'll be room for one eventually.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236089#Comment_118236089

As with anything new it will take time for people to adjust to the new local routes. I wouldn't be judging that aspect on day 1 alone.

Zebra3

Got the C3 today at from Maynooth. Seems the terminus in Maynooth is now the first stop. A good start. Skipping Chapelizod is a big win but still going through Lucan where few people from Maynooth, Celbridge and Leixlip have any interest in going. Really should be going down the N4 with stops there.

Good few people stopping the bus asking where it was going or did the driver know how they could get to some place of other.

Map attached at bus stop in Maynooth unclear to people where the bus is actually going in the city centre. Spine on the left has no route attached to it.

(Apologies for photo being sideways, it’s uploaded that way for some reason).

D1DA5A86-AA14-4DD9-9953-3AE258EADB6A.jpeg

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236531#Comment_118236531

That's a combined C3/C5 map. The route on the left is the C3 via Chapelizod bypass, the one on the right is the night-time C5 via Chapelizod Village.

TranslatorPS

On those maps, the strings are always in order of the route numbers at the terminus at the bottom of the string.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236531#Comment_118236531

The old Lucan Road between Kew Park and Woodies still needs a bus service for the people living there. The C3 and C4 provide that.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118235925#Comment_118235925

Some more info on the phases: https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1465037113964077061?t=JlF2DkFc4d1ddcE6zm8OkQ&s=19

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236675#Comment_118236675

I would have instead diverted C3 & C4 via N4, then diverted 52 via Lucan Village instead of the N4 road and made C5 from Adamstown Station via Dodsborough and Lucan Village. 52 and C5 would come to Lucan less crowded as currently C3 & C4 are. Lots of things sadly could have been done better re new routes. I think, it was a mistake splitting 239 too. Some other diversions could have been done, which I don't want to repeat as I've mentioned them earlier a few pages back.

Hippodrome Song Owl

There should definitely have been a frequent route through Lucan from Shackleton/Dodsboro to town to replace 25 and let the C3/4 stay on N4. It could have stayed going through Chapelizod to give another connection there too. Dropping the 25 and expecting the C2 to eventually divert and serve the massive new population around Dodsboro is a big mistake. I honestly believe that capacity to city centre is just totally inadequate for Lucan in the new services. Posters here don't seem to grasp how full these buses already are even off peak all the way to the quays.

I'm very happy with Bus Connects overall idea, but Lucan to city centre is not being dealt with properly and all you get is dismissal from those who aren't affected. I mean comments that there's "little difference between C1 and C2 route" show complete lack of knowledge, with several thousand houses on each of the unique sections of the routes, who have a 15 min walk to a combined stop. It's why I read but don't post here often, but I'm very concerned after today's introduction!

Peregrine

The Sandymount Times is at it again

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/sandymount-residents-seek-change-to-busconnects-route-1.4741141

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237069#Comment_118237069

For the record I am not dismissing your concerns at all.

I was trying to understand exactly what was causing the problem today. For example, you reported a C1 and C2 together at Woodies - that simply shouldn't be happening on a Sunday and I would be asking why? They're supposed to be 15 minutes apart there. Bunching causes capacity issues.

With any set of changes like this there are always going to be issues. The big question is whether the NTA have got the capacity right or not and we won't really know that until probably a week of operations have taken place, to allow everyone to get used to the new network. If it is the case that they've got it wrong, then they need to fix it quickly.

I have serious reservations that the NTA are not communicating to people how to utilise the connections better and that I suspect is a disaster that may yet blow up.

bikeman1

Did anyone travel today and their previous €2.25 “middle fare” were able to just tag on the validator and get the new €2.30 fare?

That will make a bit of a difference from my stop as heretofore we had to queue up to the driver and ask for our fare.

OscarMIlde

I think there are going to be issues with the reduction in the number of direct buses from Leixlip to the city centre with the new Busconnects. People from Castletown or Confey are now going to have to either get connecting buses or walk down to Leixlip village for a C3, which is only once every half hour, and that's if all buses are operational. No shows on the 66 are very common, and I see no reason the C3 would be any different. If that happens, then it is very likely that the buses could be full once they leave Maynooth. I also imagine that the limited number of direct buses to Leixlip from town will mean the C3 will be oversubscribed, leaving Maynooth/Leixlip people stranded.

I got on a C3 at Heuston this evening around half eight. The bus was packed, and this is on a cold Sunday night during a pandemic. What would it be like on a Friday or Saturday when things are back to normal? I don't think the current schedule is sufficient for North Kildare. They should have retained the 66A/66B buses, routing them through Lucan village and bypassing Chapelizod. The longer route 66 and 67 buses could bypass both Lucan village and Chapelizod. I think the busconnects plan will really discommode the elderly and infirm, especially people in Confey. Captain's hill is exceptionally steep and is a hard walk if the weather is bad. A direct bus is invaluable for that area.

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236969#Comment_118236969

One of the multiple comments underneath that main tweet from the Dublin Commuter Coalition is now saying there that the rollout of the Northern Orbitals may be delayed until Autumn 2022.

As per the tweet here.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1465040752413757449?s=20

Can someone here explain why is that phase for the Northern Orbitals is being subject to 7/8 month delay as I cannot really understand it.

The comment on Twitter implies to me at this point that we have 2 scenarios at play.

Scenario 1

The NTA are now going to say that both the Northern & Southern Orbitals could be rolled out together from September 2022.

Or

Scenario 2

Maybe the NTA have done a mad switch around at the last minute to rollout the Southern Orbitals first in January/February & then the Northern Orbitals will be out in September.

Has that news been made official from the NTA?

Peregrine

No, nothing from the NTA. I'll try to find out. With this phase delayed from September to the end of November, I completely forgot about the next phase.

Peregrine

The remaining phases of the network will be rolled out over an incremental basis in the coming years with the Southwest of the city via the G-Spine (Ballyfermot Road) due to be launched in June 2022.

Hmm..

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/phase-two-of-busconencts-c-spine-goes-live/

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237564#Comment_118237564

I see no problem taking a nearby train or changing a bus. You re forgetting a 52 bus route which will come much less busy than the C3. Peak time will be X31.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237579#Comment_118237579

It doesn't say "is now delayed", it says "it may be delayed" - huge difference. One hour later a new comment was added "We’re awaiting updated information on the plan". Currently it's too soon to speculate the information.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237648#Comment_118237648

That bus is once an hour. There was a 66a and 66b once every hour, so that is still a reduction in the number of buses going to Leixlip from town. Also that bus as far as I'm aware is not a direct bus from Confey or Castletown which are losing their direct buses. Estates in those areas are roughly forty years old, which means a fairly large population of people in their sixties and seventies who are now losing a direct bus to the city centre. Changing bus is fine if the frequency is there. If not, then it becomes a miserable experience of standing at bus stops in crap weather. I get on at the terminus at Maynooth and there have been times I've been standing for nearly an hour waiting for a bus due to no shows midday. I don't have any faith in connecting buses working at the outer rim of service when frequencies are lower. Bus changes only work on very busy routes with lots of buses, say Nassau street or Leeson street.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237716#Comment_118237716

Agree that frequency should be better for C spine, and it would make connections more attractive. People in Adamstown/Lucan say the same regarding C1 & C2.

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237661#Comment_118237661

Whoops. Sorry for making that error. I'd guess the updated information from the NTA should give us a clearer picture about what happens next with each phase. Although how they give out that information from now on has to be seen with some form of scrutiny when it's being presented right in front of us.

I will still be interested in seeing the update in how the next phases of this project are meant to be rolled out. If they are going to release an update on each phase. Will they present it in a revised implementation timetable. Would the number of phases in future rollouts that are leftover at this point remain the same or would there be scope for them to be rolled out much quicker?

Qrt

Are the C1 and C2 pretty much not the exact same as the 25a/b? Why the capacity worries all of a sudden?

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237790#Comment_118237790

The C1 is now serving Adamstown whereas the 25a did not so buses will be full early on now. The 25 has been dropped altogether and this will also add pressure to the C1 and C2 at the Shackleton/Dodsboro end. The loss of the 25 and the 66a/b also means fewer buses for Lucan village. There is also significant reduction in frequency on C1 on a Saturday during daytime hours.

There are more local routes which it is assumed will lighten loads on city routes. But since the old city routes were full even off peak all the way to town, people are concerned that they have overestimated the demand for enhanced short local connections versus those travelling to city.

I also have concerns about increased loads outbound with people from Sandymount/Ringsend possibly choosing to stay on out to Heuston or Liffey Valley maybe to take advantage of their new connections. Those travelling to Lucan and North Kildare may be facing more difficulties getting on in city centre now too.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236566#Comment_118236566

Thanks for that, but sadly it’s of little use to people standing at the bus stop wondering what it is.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118236675#Comment_118236675

I guess BC is trying to do what wouldn’t happen in other cities.

The N4/Chapelizod by-pass would be prefect for sending a Luas into the city with local buses feeding into it all along the way.

And I’m aware that there’s rail lines “not far” away and that other parts of Dublin need metro/Luas/electrification of rail lines, but that’s the long term failure of FFFG, Labour and the PDs.