BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270906#Comment_119270906

I hear very few people voicing displeasure about refugees at work, thankfully. Apart from the odd nasty bigot, who seeks easy answers and punches as low as possible, because they lack the intelligence to lay the blame on the right targets. Forget about refugees. People are quitting the industry for lots of reasons - using it as an excuse to push a racist hobby-horse will gain nothing. It's just a distraction - which, let's face it, is exactly what the government wants.

Unless something is done about it, the driver shortage is going to get worse in the coming years - because if you look around, most bus drivers are getting on a bit. There aren't many in their twenties... or even thirties... and I know loads in their 40s who have either left or are looking for something more family-friendly and with better pay.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273363#Comment_119273363

In which case, you think a recession in Ireland is needed in order to combat the sh*t state the public transport industry is currently in, with regards to staffing?

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273409#Comment_119273409

It might help the public transport operators, but I don't think many of us want that. In the current market, with so many jobs around, pay/conditions need to improve. There's no other way of rectifying the shortage.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273446#Comment_119273446

Absolutely the conditions should be good but I think a lot of the reason people aren't attracted to bus driving is the unsocial hours. Unfortunately it's hard to sell getting up at 4 in the morning on an early car, working most weekends, finishing at 1 in the morning on a late car and even working nights now on some routes. Working when everyone else is off basically.

The fact is public transport has to run throughout the day and night so I think that why it's hard to fill these roles.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274049#Comment_119274049

Fully agree. Drivers do absolutely deserve a pay rise (especially after keeping the show going through the pandemic) but a pay rise alone won't be enough to fill these positions. And I suspect the same goes for a lot of jobs in many other industries.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274104#Comment_119274104

It would be difficult to really change the system. Some who've never done the job say if it wasn't for marking in then new drivers would stay around longer but I don't it's that simple.

Most drivers would see becoming marked in as a reward for lengthy service so it's hard to really take away that incentive and then expect drivers to stick around. This shiite about old timers making getting a cushy number is a load of bs they've put in the service and are getting semi decent roster as a reward.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271541#Comment_119271541

I don't think it's really that different just Network Direct was on a much smaller scale and didn't involve the complete renumbering of routes.

You did see buses cut from working class residential areas Bulfin Road was cut from a bus every 10/15 mins can't remember the exact frequency of the 19 to only 2 buses in the morning and 3 in the afternoon/early evening.

SF and PBP TDs in working class areas always seem to be more outraged about changes. I guarantee if River Forest was a council estate they'd be up in arms when the 66a was replaced by the L54/L58/L59.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274154#Comment_119274154

I wasn't talking about the nature of the job itself, that's a whole other can of worms. I was referring more to the housing crisis and the sheer cost of living in a city like Dublin these days

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119263661#Comment_119263661

Inbound 39a's seem to be very rare between 5-6pm. It doesn't help that the 39, which is timetabled to operate every 30 minutes, doesn't seem to follow the timetable at all.

Plenty of 39a's arrive from the city, but then are taken out of service instead of going back. So from a passenger point of view, it's pretty frustrating to wait 30 minutes for the bus that's supposed to run every 10 minutes, and watch several "sorry, not in service" buses go past.

hairymaryberry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273363#Comment_119273363

You have nearly figured it out.

The government has no end of money for unlimited Ukrainians, meanwhile the Irish public has a public transport service falling apart in real time due to lack of funds

The Irish tax payers in Ireland are now lower down the totem pole than Ukrainians, let that sink in, next time a bus does not turn up or it passes by as it’s full , think about it.

The public transport problems would be fixed by the time the schools go back in September if Monday the newspapers has a full page advertisement, DB now hiring, €1,500 per week , 5 weeks paid holidays

Current staff would not be leaving and there would be no end of people wanting to do the job

They will never pay that much, but ponder the issue as public transport falls apart, remember there is no limit to the number of Ukrainians, but they won’t spend money on public transport to get Irish tax payer to work to pay the tax that supports all these Ukrainians.

hairymaryberry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273092#Comment_119273092

Ahhh, your true colours are revealed, a bitter bus driver hater.

The intelligent posters have long since realised the problem is the NTA, they control pay and conditions, and until they drastically improve the situation will continue to deteriorate.

Alas some troglodytes still blame the worker when it’s management who are the cause of all their woes.

hairymaryberry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274049#Comment_119274049

For the right pay it will become a attractive job, men go down a man hole clearing out blocked sewer’s, Nasty job, they ain’t on minimum wage. I’d wager they get top dollar.

You want bus drivers up the pay and conditions and you will get them. It a simple problem to solve, but beyond the NTA is would seem

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272721#Comment_119272721

I'm going to quote the above once and once only.

Comply or face the consequences.

Moderator

hairymaryberry

Bus connection right now will be a failure, no if ands or buts.

Why you ask?

Drivers, and the lack of them

The NTA can come out will beautiful brochures posted to every house in Dublin, highlighting how wonderful the new improvements are, a bus every 5 minutes, you can get to anywhere in Dublin with a few transfers in under 2 hours, brand new eco friendly bus, so on and so fort.

The reality will be buses not showing up or buses terminating City Centre as no driver there to take over mid route.

You can see that now happen with your own eyes, yet some refuse to believe the problem is shortage of driver despite been told by drivers.

DB are taking drivers of middle and late shifts and using them to try get a full early service on the road and then trying with OT to cover the missing middle and late shifts, how’s that working out?

Drivers in the job years are leaving DB at a steady rate, I would actually say it is increasing pace a little bit, the Training centre is struggling to get trainee drivers, those that do get qualified, once in depot are leaving at a alarming rate in the first few months, we are talking 70-80% in 3 months. Possibly because they are on the night shift, and currently they are “handy” workouts , come September they are going full shift with a lunch break , good luck getting drivers for that as currently that are voluntary(current staff, compulsory for new) and all I have spoken to have said they will be getting off them once full shifts come in.

So it all boils down to pay and conditions, the pay ain’t good and the rosters ain’t good either. Believe it or now , working early, middle and late is not really a problem, but the length of the duties , poxy 2-3 hour break and that ain’t even a bogey.

So how do you fix it , easy peasy.

1, Pay better

2, improved rosters.

These two will along retain staff and attract new ones.

This all comes down to money , the elephant in the room is unlimited Ukrainians, 200,000 was mentioned and the minister said there is no cap, it’s can be higher then 200,000. These all get the dole €208 and good only knows how much is spent per week on hotels and other forms of accommodation, so quit the virtue signalling, if you want a proper world class public transport, it’s going to cost money, the money is clear there but the government would rather spend it on Ukrainians.

So your bus connects will be sacrificed, come this winter as you wait in the cold and rain for a bus that won’t be showing up, take solace in the warm feeling of virtue signaling about how we are good little Europeans, and give yourself a pat on the back , attaboy!

Ireland trains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277640#Comment_119277640

While you clearly begrudge the fact that Ireland is assisting refugees fleeing war, the majority of the population does not share that view. There are labour shortages in countless sectors, DB and GAI are far from unique.

devnull

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Moderator

loyatemu

Folks, for a much better Boards experience:

DaBluBoi

Seeing the mess that has become of Marlay Park has gotten me thinking,

Wouldn’t it have made more sense economically to implement the G Spine before the Northern Orbitals? After all, I can imagine them getting filled out in the night due to the events held at the 3Arena, especially during Summer, whereas the N4 I would assume to be very full with DCU students, especially at peak times. The presumed PVR increase for the G Spine would also be lower than the latter, therefore making it easier to implement the former

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119282015#Comment_119282015

From what I've heard, the N4 has been doing well from people coming to and from saint Anne's park, malahide castle, 3 arena and bord gais gigs. I've been on it a few times and it's been packed to the brim .

It's doing well during the day as well.

cgcsb

Is the plan still to start g spine in August? It's frustrating that nothing is planned to happen on the corridor project for at least another 2 years. DCC has the power to implement some of the bus connects proposals at any time. Its also concerning that there's no plans to introduce an enforcement regime for our existing bus and cycle lanes which could slash journey times without lifting a finger.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119283859#Comment_119283859

Yes, August 28th.

We'll hear more on enforcement at the end of the year. It is happening.

DaBluBoi

Is it just the southern leg of the 40 and the 79/a that are to be canned? I’ve heard rumors that the 51d is to go as well, along with the phantom 51x

LXFlyer

In a sensible move, GoAhead are moving to “Saturday plus” timetables for city services from Sunday 18th July.

https://www.goaheadireland.ie/temporary-timetable-change-17th-july-2022

Now will Dublin Bus follow suit and change the timetable to something that is deliverable?

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285112#Comment_119285112

Sensible move but hourly frequency on the 175 is unacceptable. 175 should half hourly all day every day. Also notice the 76a is only operating LV-Blanch.

thomasj

Interesting to see that the bus connects routes are not on that list.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285741#Comment_119285741

Indeed. I wonder if the same will happen if DB goes Saturday plus.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285304#Comment_119285304

They barely managed half-hourly before with regular cancelled departures on the 175.

I’d prefer that they come with something that they CAN 100% deliver rather than another set of fairy tales.

No it’s not good, but no point in coming with up with fiction.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286443#Comment_119286443

I would agree but it was more a general comment on the 175 frequency I feel is too low in general on weekends even under normal circumstances. It's the only GAI route that has a significantly lower frequency on weekends than weekdays.

I don't really see how the 17 and 75/a can still manage half hourly departures but not the 175. Off the top of my head if they cut the 18 and 76 back to 30 mins they perhaps could have kept the 175 at a 30 minute frequency with a similar number of duties required. This would be less disruptive for 175 passengers.

I'd say they'll even still struggle with a Saturday Plus as they appear to even at weekends when the frequency is lower anyway. Also from a close friend who drives for GAI that the Saturday plus duties are even worse than normal duties as many have shorter breaks and running time than normal duties which could create further issues with staff retention.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286855#Comment_119286855

I'd guess the hope is that running a Saturday schedule during the week will burn less driver hours and therefore generally have more drivers available to work at all times.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287152#Comment_119287152

Not really from what I gather Saturday duties would generally be very similar in hours to M-F duties.