BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

john boye

But there are clearly less duties otherwise there'd be no point in going to this Saturday Plus schedule.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287188#Comment_119287188

Sorry I didn't really get what you meant when you talked about drivers hours. I understand now.

Midnight_EG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287930#Comment_119287930

We're only allowed to drive for a certain amount of hours... We can't cover all of the overtime unfortunately and there's a lot of us that do try

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288073#Comment_119288073

I know. Even if the hours permit a lot of drivers won't do OT and quite frankly I don't blame them when all they get is grief.

d51984

And then theres the tax man who takes most of your OT anyway, so its just not worth it.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119285112#Comment_119285112

It's a sensible move in terms of service operation and providing a reliable service, I think anyone who has no stake in this game is going to see that, but people who have a stake in this game will see it as an opportunity.

Already we have seen people using the fact that Go Ahead Ireland were proactively tweeting cancellations etc as a stick to beat them with for not delivering services. This is simply going to fuel that as it will be seen as evidence of providing a poor service.

Whilst Go Ahead have generally been far more open than Dublin Bus have in general about cancellations since they commenced operating in Dublin and they are the first operator to have restructured timetables to provide a more reliable service, doing that doesn't make for very good PR whereas keeping quiet would make the problem less apparent.

Yes all of us here know that the problem that is happening is effecting pretty much the entire sector to some degree. However do you really think the likes of Sinn Fein are going to do anything other than try and make some political capital out of this by portraying GAI as providing poor service and completely negate to mention the fact that DB and BE are also in a similar boat as it doesn't suit their argument?

In reality the NTA should be requiring all PSO operators to proactively communicate any cancellations and call them that. It really is time to put the passengers first and be completely transparent with the situation so would-be passengers can plan around them. That is more important than any operator's image or their own interests.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291331#Comment_119291331

I don't think what you're saying is fully the case. Back in January DB and GAI were both supposed to go to Saturday Plus schedules to combat staffing issues but as it transpired the announcement was made but DB could continue to operate as normal in the end as their staffing issues were not to the same extent as Go-Ahead.

Whilst both DB and GAI have suffered cancellation en masse the issue does appear to be affecting GAI more. DB also appear to be better at ensuring the last departures operate.

GAI are also not affected by union agreements to the same extent as DB so its easier for them to change around the timetables than DB. It strikes as laziness that they will only implement a Saturday timetable that's already in place as opposed to reducing the 20 minute frequency on the 18 and 76 to 30 minutes to compensate for the hourly frequency on the 175 and continue to run the 175 half hourly.

Their scheduling system appears to have less of an ability to cover work at short notice than DB too as they appear to have no equivalent at least not to the same extent as Euro/Universal duties to fill in gaps.

I don't really agree with the last part of your statement as it's not really possible to list all cancelled departures given the extent of cancellations and how trips can be cancelled at very short notice due to things like traffic, breakdowns, accidents and passenger/driver issues as I'm sure you're well aware. Also nearly all cancelled appear on the Real Time app for both DB and GAI.

Finally I will also mention the poor contract GAI are operating too. Considering a bus more than 6 minutes late as not operating is ridiculous.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291331#Comment_119291331

It seems like the NTA is doing whatever it can to keep drivers' wages down. By effectively bailing Go Ahead out (again), they're ensuring that the lowest-paying operator doesn't have to bring its wages closer to Dublin Bus. Anne Graham (who, by all accounts, seems like quite a despicable person) made some fairly nasty and ill-informed comments recently, blaming bus drivers for absenteeism. It's quite clear that she has nothing but contempt for workers.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291434#Comment_119291434

The NTA certainly haven't covered themselves in glory lately at all with their hands off pass the buck approach. I can't speak for Anne Graham specifically but for it does appear there are a lot of chiefs and few Indians in the NTA for all the criticism of CIE companies being union infested and top heavy from what I've heard the NTA are the exact same if not worse but manage to avoid the same level of scrutiny.

Also noticed Dermot O'Leary and the NBRU have been surprisingly very silent lately during all this.

Midnight_EG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291462#Comment_119291462

They haven't been quiet, just not publicly

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291425#Comment_119291425

I agree that in January that was the case, but it's pretty clear that all of the PSO bus operators at the moment are struggling to a large degree. I'm not saying that every company is exactly the same, but lets face it, there are too many cancellations as a whole across the network now and the summer problems are not something new, we've seen similar issues in the past as well. Agree that DB are better at ensuring the last service running.

Yes the cancellations do appear on the TFI Real Time app but the majority of Dublin Bus customers are not using that app and Dublin Bus are still to this day on social media and elsewhere saying that their customers should continue to use the Dublin Bus App as this provides the most accurate real time information, despite also acknowledging for the last year or two that the app cannot displayed cancelled or curtailed services. As recently as a few days ago they were still saying this.

At the moment you have Dublin Bus not listing cancellations anywhere on their website, their app is also not listing them and they're actively guiding people away from the app that does list them to their own app that doesn't. That's simply not good enough for passengers at the end of the day. That should change, I don't see why we even need a Dublin Bus app, especially in light of the fact it simpl doesn't give the same level of info as the TFI one.

I can see the intentions as to why there is the clause about buses about 6 minutes late not operating, is probably to try and say to the company that they will consider 6 minutes late as not operating to try and disincentivise late running due to heavy penalties, but as you say, where you have that kind of thing, if a bus is already 6 minutes late there is no incentive to run it at all, that has to change.

AngryLips

I think the question of where customer information should come from, the NTA or the operators, has been well and truly answered (at least in the long-run) insofar as NTA are assuming direct responsibility for a new customer contact centre ...so their 'pass the buck' approach doesn't really bode well for such a venture.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291621#Comment_119291621

100% agree about the app very silly to have two different apps especially now DB are on a gross cost contract will all farebox revenue going to the NTA and have absolutely no interest in fare revenue bar commercial services. Seems they are wasting their time now holding on to an app that's obsolete.

That being said most people I notice in my area are using the TFI but that's because I live in an area that's served by multiple GAI, DB and isn't a million miles from the Luas either. I'd say most who use a mix of DB, GAI, Luas and IE would use the TFI app whereas in areas especially closer to the city centre mostly served by DB the DB app is still most common.

Even though I think what DB are bad for keeping hold of their obsolete app and branding it's still half not as disgraceful as Bus Eireann putting their stop branding on top of NTA branding completely obscuring the stop number. https://twitter.com/TranslatorPS/status/1533478138541445121?t=UhzJ5AliAEhjLb8GsIDEvw&s=19

The Nta are not innocent either when it comes to branding. Currently I think the manner of which timetables are printed is unacceptable. Currently in Dublin we have 4 different formats showing timetables DB original format, NTA/GAI format, NTA Bus Connects format and GAI format as seen on the GAI website. When there used to be only one format when all routes were operated by DB. However there are plans for branding and passenger information to be consistent when bus connects is fully implemented.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293193#Comment_119293193

From an everyday passengers point of view, the TFI app is by far the better choice. It covers more operators, it has a number of additional features and also shows information in relation to cancellations and vehicles not running the full route. For passengers, the greater transparency and quality of information the better in my view. It should be a mandatory requirement to show cancellations and short terminating services correctly as the information is clearly available.

If you want to be extremely cynical, you can look at it in terms of PR, far better for an operator to get their customers using a system which doesn't highlight the services that they did not run that day, because it makes them look better. If the operator doesn't list anywhere that a bus is cancelled, then it's less obvious to people that it has been, in fact, cancelled. I would hope this is not the reason for the current situation.

This is yet another thing that the NTA need to get a handle on, at the end of the day information provided to passengers needs to be accurate, transparent and as detailed as possible. Whether that suits Go Ahead Ireland, Bus Eireann or Dublin Bus really isn't the key issue, the key issue is the experience that passengers get, and right now it's not good enough.

Don't even get me started on the timetable situation. The amount of variations is ridiculous, even at the same stop you can have DB and GAI panels which are in different layouts. Then you have Go-Ahead using a completely different format as well. Everything should be centralised and put in the same format. Too bad if that puts GAI or DBs nose out of joint, it's not about them, it's about customers. Saying it will be done after BusConnects is nowhere near good enough and the NTA should be embarrassed by that.

It's frustrating for me as Irish transport still hasn't matured enough like it has done in other cities in Europe. Many of these problems are ones that simply don't exist elsewhere. I understand the reasons that they do exist, but we have to get to a point in time that everyone needs to work together to solve these issues rather than turf wars or various parties pushing their own agendas which are contrary to that of what is best for the customers.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294775#Comment_119294775

To be fair the information on the bus stops on the new bus connects routes looks excellent and doesn't do much to differentiate the operators other than having a phone number, address and website which is nessecary right now under the circumstances. The big issue was that stops served by GAI routes were displaying information 2 years out of date. DB have always been quite quick to update timetables for their own routes.

It's what's available online is what I think is dreadful, unclear, not user friendly and not concise. Most timetables for DB routes can be viewed normally but timetables for GAI and bus connected routes must be downloaded as a PDF.

rameire

Does anybody know how long the full route of the N4 is taking from Blanch.

Im off to The Point on Friday and wondering if it would be easier just getting the 70 and then the luas.

Reason I say is Google maps said it will take nearly 2 hours on the n4 as it can't read the route around Connolly correctly.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300573#Comment_119300573

There's a pdf timetable with stop by stop times. Around 1h 10 min but I would add some 10-15 min in case you're going to some meeting.

thomasj

After a few month absense, the VTs were back on the 39A route today

There have been regular cancellations on the route and with UCD dealing with a busy summer season with French/German/Spanish/Italian students , 39as are leaving the campus full right up to the front door.

p_haugh

Good to see them back on the route, they're badly needed. They were taken off initially due to the tightness of the diversion route due to the reconfiguration of the main UCD entrance that's been happening over the past few months, that must be mostly done now.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300573#Comment_119300573

The N4 timings on Google maps are right as they read from the stop-by-stop timetables.

Every departure now has a full timetable for every stop, which is why they sometimes wait to their scheduled time at stops.

Off-peak journey time is about 1:25 - 1:30 during the day, 1:50 at peak, and 1:00 - 1:10 in the evening/night.

mikeybhoy

That's a lot of cancelled services on the 45a

rameire

Parked up at Crestfield opposite DCU today instead of Blanch.

Jumped on the n4 that was sitting with another n4 waiting at stop 1646 for 10 minutes for the new driver to turn up. I know its a driver change over spot.

Took 33 minutes to get to the point. So arrived at 7.15 ish.

On way back from the the point to St Aidans stop 1643 took 24 minutes.

Bus was packed but not rammed.

People got on and off the whole way.

Great service. Really happy it's avaliable.

Peregrine

G1 and G2 will be 24/7

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119311717#Comment_119311717

Ya got that from Wikipedia? Heheh

pk1991

A local Sinn Representive from Ballyfermot had on his Facebook page a response from the NTA regarding the next phase. G1/G2 and 60 to be launched in August and both G1/G2 will be 24 hour operation.

Also, a new bus-stop is under construction on Spiddal Road and I’m guessing this is for the inbound 60. Currently there is 2 stops on Spiddal Road (The Spiddal Park terminus and at the far end of Spiddal Road) that service the inbound 79. These will be the outbound 60, I think, so there needs to be a new inbound stop as the 60 will run bi-directionally on Spiddal Road whereas the 79 only runs inbound.

Still have no idea how they expect to fit the bus down Claddagh Park beside the local shops seeing as everybody illegally parks.

Lastly, the 30 minute frequency and having the 60 Dona detour via LeFanu and Kylemore roads and completely missing the village is a mistake. I gather they’ve done it to (eventually) replace the 76 that services a few stops on Kylemore road by the 2 schools but I don’t think it makes sense.

thomasj

Dublin city council announced today that Parliment street will go car-free Thur/Fri/sat nights until the end of August .

Theyll be making decision on it's long-term plans after that.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119333965#Comment_119333965

Perhaps they'll make it a temporary terminus for the 40?

StreetLight

The 40 is being sent to the Stephen's Green area, possibly Earlsfort Terrace.

Peregrine

The Liffey Valley CBC planning application is going in today.

hairymaryberry

We have been told this 20 times before, but this time is for real apparently, the pension has been sorted and the changes will start on Monday.

Why should you care?

If you left DB before the new pension deal you would miss out on the increased lump on retirement, so many (100+) are working on after 65 to be eligible. 

Well if you think the lack of drivers is causing a problem now, just wait till the drivers who are doing a extra year to get the increased lump leave now that the increase is secured, many if not all will leave the next month, going to be mental when the schools go back in September.

There will be very few interested in working on after 65 once this is signed off , so its going to be a big issue from here on out, simple aint worth it financially. After 65 your take home pay minus what you could have been claiming of the dole is pathetic, now will the improved lump , no reason to stay on.

You can forget about bus connects, if they foolishly roll it out it will be a disaster, bus gaps galore, simple lack of drivers will prevent it rolling out successfully, so in reality the NTA in their ignorance of all things will probably push it out and give themselves a pat on the back, clowns.