BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

orangerhyme

http://irishcycle.com/2017/01/11/cars-off-quays-proposal-for-liffey-cycle-route-not-arrived-at-lightly/

You can see the quotes from Burke here, what an idiot.

"Cllr Burke also asked how many car parking spaces would be lost and how would the council be “compensating the motorists” and the “city’s coffers”.

No wonder the traffic and transport is such a mess with idiots like him in charge.

antoinolachtnai

Could remove all the parking you want from South William Street or even pedestrianise, but it won't make any significant positive impact on transportation in the city.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

Actually it is to a degree the planners' fault.

No, I can assure you, they really do know what they are doing. The have a very strong vision for Dublin, it is just a continuing struggle to get it by local politicians.

Exactly the same down in Cork.

We really need to stop blaming planners and the regulators and put the blame squarely where it belongs and that is on the politicians.

Actually the blame really lies with ourselves, the people of Ireland for not putting enough pressure on our politicians. We let them get away with this nonsense.

Look at Amsterdam where massive demonstrations by the public in the 70's against motorways and deaths on the roads lead to a massive rethinking by the politicians and in the end a massive u-turn in city planning and development.

We lack that public will here in Ireland when it comes to transport unfortunately.

orangerhyme

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Could remove all the parking you want from South William Street or even pedestrianise, but it won't make any significant positive impact on transportation in the city.

I never said it would, its just one small street.
Just asking a question.

Stephen15

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Could remove all the parking you want from South William Street or even pedestrianise, but it won't make any significant positive impact on transportation in the city.

Yes but it would certainly help make the city more liveable. A city dosen't just revolve around people's transportation needs.

orangerhyme

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes but it would certainly help make the city more liveable. A city dosen't just revolve around people's transportation needs.

Its one of many examples in the city where the footpaths arent fit for purpose i.e. to handle the amount of foot traffic on it daily.

antoinolachtnai

I understand that it is in the plan to do. It is one of hundreds of projects that will be nice to see done but wouldn't make any difference to the massive crisis that the city is facing.

cgcsb

Why was the college green plaza, Liffey cycle route and bus connects not all timed to be delivered before or around the same time as luas bxd completion? Delivering each scheme separately and changing it every few weeks in a press release is causing quite a bit of panic and confusion. Were now told that we're going to have cars on Bachelor's walk and bikes on a new boardwalk so as not to disrupt the car desire lines. This is a mess.

Stephen15

cgcsb wrote: »

Why was the college green plaza, Liffey cycle route and bus connects not all timed to be delivered before or around the same time as luas bxd completion? Delivering each scheme separately and changing it every few weeks in a press release is causing quite a bit of panic and confusion. Were now told that we're going to have cars on Bachelor's walk and bikes on a new boardwalk so as not to disrupt the car desire lines. This is a mess.

Perhaps they thought that change would work better for people if it was phased in rather than done all at once. Your point is however completely valid and I was thinking that myself.

Or else the reason was just poor planning plain and simple. They thought 'oh yeah we need to connect the Luas lines', 'a civic plaza would be nice too and I nearly forgot we need to improve our bus routes'. Sure wasn't there Swiftway BRT planned around the same time of that work on the the Luas BXD was commenced and then that prosposal was completely forgotten about/quietly shelved.

Spanish Eyes

One of the biggest issues in solving the traffic/PT problem in Dublin is the privately owned car parks. I accept that on street parking is a factor also.

Every time an initiative is mooted for reducing car traffic the car park lobby wins out.

It is just amazing how much power they have to disrupt the city's PT flow.

As I said earlier, CPO is the only answer going forward or nothing will work. We have the money from the AIB flotation, would be a great investment.

But at the same time maybe CS/PS free car parking should be removed aswell. Can you imagine the uproar? But we are all in this together, or should be for the good of the city.

AlekSmart

Stephen15 wrote: »

Perhaps they thought that change would work better for people if it was phased in rather than done all at once. Your point is however completely valid and I was thinking that myself.

Or else the reason was just poor planning plain and simple. They thought 'oh yeah we need to connect the Luas lines', 'a civic plaza would be nice too and I nearly forgot we need to improve our bus routes'. Sure wasn't there Swiftway BRT planned around the same time of that work on the the Luas BXD was commenced and then that prosposal was completely forgotten about/quietly shelved.

Wash your mouth out with soap & water !!!.......Swiftway line 1 is not forgotten about or shelved...no siree.

It is merely being re-evaluated...by somebody different to whoever evaluated it to begin with....I hope ?

It's all good......Dublin's re-evaluation should be finished in time for the actual opening of Belfast's first BRT line.....(they re-evaluate quicker,up there it seems...)

antoinolachtnai

It is a really bad plan. They really should reevaluate it over and over again until they fix it.

AlekSmart

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It is a really bad plan. They really should reevaluate it over and over again until they fix it.

I think that You can be very confident that such re-evaluations,will be carried out ad nauseum,well into the future..North County Dublin can continue to sleep soundly.

monument

Stephen15 wrote: »

Lxflyer you seem to be quite reluctant to criticise DB but quick off the mark to criticise the Luas why is this. Do you work for DB PR or something.

Mind your own business!

Play the ball and not the man -- read the charter before posting.

-- moderator

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

No, I can assure you, they really do know what they are doing. The have a very strong vision for Dublin, it is just a continuing struggle to get it by local politicians.

Exactly the same down in Cork.

We really need to stop blaming planners and the regulators and put the blame squarely where it belongs and that is on the politicians.

Actually the blame really lies with ourselves, the people of Ireland for not putting enough pressure on our politicians. We let them get away with this nonsense.

Look at Amsterdam where massive demonstrations by the public in the 70's against motorways and deaths on the roads lead to a massive rethinking by the politicians and in the end a massive u-turn in city planning and development.

We lack that public will here in Ireland when it comes to transport unfortunately.

With respect I think you're giving them far too much credit, particularly when it comes to planning for our bus service in the immediate aftermath of LUAS BXD, which is what I am primarily concerned with right now.

That has nothing to do with politicians, but everything to do with the planners, who have still not come up with a definitive plan for where each of the bus services will go.

These extraordinary planners who really know what they are doing, are the same people who designed the LUAS BXD with a large gap between the northbound and southbound tracks at College Green to facilitate buses turning right onto Dame Street, only to decide mid-construction that this actually wouldn't work.

We have an EIS now for College Green that suggests southbound buses on routes 9, 16 and 122 will come down O'Connell Street, continue along D'Olier Street and College Street, return north onto Westmoreland Street and then along the South Quays, to Parliament Street, Dame Street before finally reaching Georges Street. But "possibly" in the future a direct right turn off O'Connell Bridge onto the South Quays might happen.

Who in their right mind could think that the suggested route above is acceptable to cross-city bus commuters?

That same document suggests that northbound buses could travel from Leonards Corner along Clanbrassil Street, Patrick Street and Winetavern Street to the North Quays to O'Connell Street, on a completely different alignment from southbound buses, thereby missing out some of the busiest stops on those routes, from where most of the passengers head further east.

But don't worry, a possible alternative route is suggested that involves northbound buses retain the existing route to Georges Street, but then travelling along Dame Street and Lord Edward Street, before looping back along Winetavern Street and the North Quays to get to O'Connell Street.

These are crazy ideas that will result in considerably extended journey times, thereby requiring additional resources to maintain the existing schedules.

I do think that it is a fair criticism to say that the entire approach to dealing with the bus service in the coming months when LUAS BXD starts operations is being drawn up on the back of an envelope.

A bus stand of 40m length is proposed for Dame Street, which is nowhere near the size needed to cope with the bus routes that are currently proposed to terminate there.

Professional transport planners/engineers came up with these ideas - not poliiticians and I would have expected far better. Yes politicians and NIMBYs have influenced some of the plans, Bachelors Walk and Parliament Street notably, but there has been a complete lack of effective planning for how the bus network will continue to work through the city centre in the immediate aftermath of LUAS.

This should have formed an integral part of the planning process at the time of the ABP hearings into LUAS BXD but yet it has all been left to the last minute. Planning this schemes requires attention to detail, but look back at the railway order documentation, and little or no detailed plans are included as to how the bus service would work through the city centre.

So, I'm sorry, I don't share your rose-tinted view on this. It's a mess, and it shouldn't have been left to the last minute. There are so many people out there who rely on the bus service, and for whom LUAS is not (nor will be) an option, and they are being treated shabbily, particularly any of them who make extended journeys using cross-city routes.

brokenarms

Yesterday was the first time I seen Camdam street working correctly. The whole way up from Dame street.

During the diversions for the parade. All parked traffic was removed from the bus lane. No bicycles on bus lane as there was no room, private cars in one lane all the buses in the bus lane.

Considering half the service was pushed up one street along with all diverted traffic, it worked well. Slow but moving.

It just goes to show, maybe we dont need all these new routes to get the city working, all we might need is traffic wardens and strict bus lane enforcement. Like Belfast.

KCAccidental

The National Transport Authority (NTA) will seek to make a number of compulsory purchase orders as part of the radical overhaul of Dublin Bus routes next year.

Earlier this year, the authority announced the €1 billion 'BusConnects' initiative that will see the introduction of new bus corridors, bus rapid transit routes and a simpler fare structure.

As part of the initiative, the NTA is seeking to establish 11 radial routes into the capital and three orbital routes, which will have separate cycle lanes if possible.

But in order to make space for the new corridors set out by the initiative, the authority will have to make a number of purchase orders on pathways and residents' front gardens, the Sunday Times reports.

The same source quotes NTA Chief Executive Anne Graham, who says that the purchases will have to be made because current road boundaries can not facilitate new bus lanes under BusConnects proposals.

Ms Graham said: "We have to be more ambitious now and look beyond the current road boundaries. That would mean land acquisition eating into footpaths, eating into gardens maybe...

http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-bus-overhaul-new-routes-13502477?ICID=FB_DublinLive_Main

They seem to be taking this plan seriously. Can't see it going down well with some residents.

Dyr

they havent had the gumption to take on street parking and they're talking about CP for front gardens. narrower footpaths too...absolute genius

LeinsterDub

Bambi wrote: »

they havent had the gumption to take on street parking and they're talking about CP for front gardens. narrower footpaths too...absolute genius

They've removed all the on street parking that would affect bus lanes as far as I'm aware. Can you point out where this isn't the case?

LXFlyer

KCAccidental wrote: »

http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-bus-overhaul-new-routes-13502477?ICID=FB_DublinLive_Main

They seem to be taking this plan seriously. Can't see it going down well with some residents.

This will be the really contentious element of this plan. It's going to be a real issue along many of the corridors where there is only space for three lanes of traffic.

In turn it will cause major headaches for politicians, and like it or not it's they who will ultimately hold sway over this.

It's worth pointing out that regardless of CPOs, there are still pinchpoints where continuous bus lanes are not going to be possible. I'd prefer the NTA to recognise that rather than make claims that ultimately can't be delivered upon.

LXFlyer

Most of this relates to outside the areas between the canals - that's mainly where these problems exist with regard to roadspace.

brokenarms

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They've removed all the on street parking that would affect bus lanes as far as I'm aware. Can you point out where this isn't the case?

Crumlin Road .. Marked street parking makes the bus lane up to the Halfway house useless. Bus must take two lanes as it does not fit.

Bottom of Malahide road where they have marked parking space in the bus lane outside the shops. Again. Making it a waste a waste of time.

Street parking from Georges street to Camden street. Lots of tight spots where the bus must enter the other side of the road.

Rathmines. Everywhere.

Terenure . Everywhere.


Buslanes out of town a bit are simply a place for residents to park out side their house.
Or the likes of Lidl on Cork Street where they let them build a super market with no parking. Except the bus lane outside will do.

Just of the top of my head. And not even mentioning the taxi ranks they paint in the bus lane . Which taxis use out of hours without consequence.

stop

Please please please let them CPO the Bernard Shaw!

pclive

brokenarms wrote: »

Buslanes out of town a bit are simply a place for residents to park out side their house.
Or the likes of Lidl on Cork Street where they let them build a super market with no parking. Except the bus lane outside will do.

There is a car park in the basement

Stephen15

brokenarms wrote: »

Buslanes out of town a bit are simply a place for residents to park out side their house.
Or the likes of Lidl on Cork Street where they let them build a super market with no parking. Except the bus lane outside will do.

Just of the top of my head. And not even mentioning the taxi ranks they paint in the bus lane . Which taxis use out of hours without consequence.

Outside Donnybrook Church on a Sunday morning. If they were really into religous sacrafice they'd walk to mass.

brokenarms

pclive wrote: »

There is a car park in the basement

Must be empty.

john boye

[quote=Stephen15;104441853

Outside Donnybrook Church on a Sunday morning. If they were really into religous sacrafice they'd walk to mass.[/quote]

Barefoot...

KCAccidental

It's also reported that should the changes in the BusConnects initiative come to pass, Dublin Bus would increase the number of segregated bus lanes in the capital from 30% of its network to 70%.

Just to add another part from the article that I found interesting. 70% of the network having bus lanes would be a huge improvement.

bk

I have to say, despite all the negativity in the last few posts, this is great news.

The work at the Cat & Cage in Drumcondra was a massive success and has massively reduced the journey times for the many routes operating on the Swords road. It should how removing just one pinch point could massively improve dozens of routes.

If they can fix more pinch points like this around the city, it will be very welcome.

This, along with other bus priority work like we are seeing on the quays and the bus gate can really help bus turn into a top quality form of public transport.

MOH

brokenarms wrote: »

Rathmines. Everywhere.

Huh?

Rathmines inbound is a bus lane all the way along with no on street parking?
And outbound is a cycle lane all the way, again with no on-street parking