BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

A2000

Just 5 g1s and 1 g2 cancelled this evening.

A2000

3 g2s and 2 g1s cancelled today .

devnull

Hi All,

Can we please add a little more to this thread than just adding a screenshot every day - we know that there are ongoing issues, but this is not a log of every single delay that there is and if you are going to continue to post screenshots, I'd ask you add a little more in terms of discussion,

Thanks,

Moderator

A2000

Hardly every single delay. Just the busiest hour of the day. If every delay was posted you would be up to page 400 by now. These buses are not delayed as that implies they turn up. They are either ghost or cancelled buses that never appear.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997187#Comment_119997187

But it happens on every single route currently, not just G Spine. I'd 2 145's and a 155 cancelled on me in a row yesterday for example and those aren't bus connect routes.

We all know there's service issues across the board.

The issues with G Spine yesterday evening were due to another protest that blocked all access from Becket bridge towards the convention centre for well over an hour, that's clearly going to have a major knock on impact to services running on the quays and around the city in general when all other roads start blocking up.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997187#Comment_119997187

Until the revised rosters with longer running times are implemented, there will still be buses missing due to them having to run out of service to get back on time.

As other posters point out there are still missing buses across all routes due to the ongoing driver shortage. I’ve had countless buses cancelled or curtailed at this stage.

At the Oireachtas Transport Committee on Tuesday night, the bus companies and NTA were able to say that recruitment is improving, but that Dublin Bus think it will be Q2 of 2023 before they are fully staffed. GoAhead hope to be able to revert to normal timetables in January 2023.

One good development is that the NTA have committed to not implement any further BusConnects phases until the bus companies have sufficient staff to operate both them and the existing services.

The video of the meeting is here and it starts after about 20 minutes:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/video-archive/committees/6972/

Hotblack Desiato

So did they actually think they had enough drivers to implement the last phase, or was it that nobody had the balls to make the call to postpone it?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999766#Comment_119999766

I think the penny had certainly dropped in the NTA that they’d have to defer more phases after all the complaints in recent times about cancelled buses.

I get that they want to implement the new network as quickly as possible, but doing it without sufficient staff was nuts. Remember that the N4, N6 and G-Spine were all implemented without the companies having enough staff, and other routes lost out as a result which isn’t fair.

The NTA do a lot of good things, but they do need to be far more pragmatic and realistic about day-to-operations. They also need to be able to admit that something isn’t working. It shouldn't have two Oireachtas Committee hearings for the public to find out what was wrong about staffing and RTPI, and what was being done to fix the problems.

The meeting on Tuesday was the first time a clear public statement was made by the NTA that no more phases of BusConnects would happen unless the companies had sufficient staff to operate the new routes and the existing services.

LXFlyer

Just to add one point and that it is my view that the NTA badly need to recruit some senior people with significant operational experience of running public transport, both bus and rail.

It is top heavy with people with road engineering experience and planning experience, which they of course need to have, but far too light on the operational side. You need both.

The NTA have some great ideas but fall down on some of the practicalities when it comes down to operations, and what can / cannot be done.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988509#Comment_119988509

What app or website is this from please? After a day of multiple no-show ghostbuses on the C1/2 it would be good to know where cancelled buses are actually advertised.

Also, just wondering, what is the plan for the Liffey Valley interchange? Did I imagine that, or was the plan that you would be able to transfer from Cspine to the LV routes at a hub in the LV car park situated near the N4 pedestrian bridge? Is that the plan? And if so is there any sort of timeline?

dublinman1990

^^^^^^^

That image from DaBluBoi's post is taken from Google Maps. All of the NTA's Real Time information is fed into it.

I am disappointed to hear that the remaining phases of BusConnects network redesign has been delayed until further notice. Although I wasn't surprised to hear about it either. Something had to give to allow both Dublin Bus and Go Ahead Ireland to get their bus driver numbers get back to normal in order to ease the pressure with running their own routes for their passengers.

To put this into perspective here; we only begun talking about the launch to rebuild the bus network about 5 years ago. In that time; we have only 4 phases of new bus routes being rolled out across the GDA within a timeline of 2 years. It's rollout of the G-Spine & the 60 has shown us that it can come with a lot of risk involved with not providing the proper tools in place to offer a high quality consistent bus service to the public.

We are very happy to see that the H-Spine & the N4 have been showing a lot of promise with really good demand from the public so far.

The pandemic has been a major fault in not allowing the project to go a lot smoother than it has been when it was promoted by Jarret Walker 5 years ago. This part of the project in Dublin could potentially be slower the rollout then the rebuilt bus network in Barcelona. According to Jarret's blog; It took them 5 years to get their new bus network under wraps.

With all of the delays that are now in play because of the bus driver shortage in Dublin. Would it be possible that the Dublin rollout exceed the 5 year timeline of Barcelona?

If I had to think about it for a little; we would be roughly 6 months off that timeline if the driver numbers were back to normal in Dublin in summer 2023.

Citrus_8

Not a surprise to see Ireland mismanaged and slowly dragging towards improvements while other civilised countries manage to do things more effective and more efficient... Not sure if it's a lack of knowledge/skills, or a general cultural slowness, or a bad luck. But surely this nation has a problem to plan forward and foresee the risks and prepare for them. We are a bunch of experts to make excuses to cover ourselves instead of taking the responsibility and learning from our mistakes to prevent from repeating them. It's a poor management here.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008705#Comment_120008705

The new Liffey Valley terminus at the north side of the complex is currently under construction and is due to open sometime in early 2023. It will be served by all of the bus routes terminating at Liffey Valley (G2, 80, L51, L53, S2 and W2).

The infrastructure plans for the N4 corridor which are currently under review by An Bord Pleanála show the C-Spine bus stops on the N4 at Liffey Valley moving further west and a new footbridge installed that aligns with the new terminus. To be clear, the C-Spine routes and the W4 will stay on the N4 - you’ll have to walk to/from the bus terminus to interchange with the bus routes terminating there as per the attached map.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009128#Comment_120009128

I don’t think that the post-Covid shrinking of the workforce is down to poor management in Ireland - that is impacting countries all over the world right now. That’s what is causing the delay to the network implementation.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009134#Comment_120009134

It's been repeated many times. My point that the problem isn't being sorted effectively.

AngryLips

5 years in the making and all we have to show for it is a re-numbering exercise and the N4.

cgcsb

There is a short term solution to improve bus reliability though and that is introducing far reaching restrictions on cars in Central Dublin and inner suburbs. Implementing the bus gates at St James, Rathmines and Storneybatter, car ban on Bachelors walk and City Quay, an east-west bus gate in Phibsboro and SCR-Adelaide Rd. A car ban between George's St and Fishamble St. The number of cars has to decrease radically for the bus service to be efficient.

Daith

I'd agree that infrastructure changes are badly needed, but hard to convince people that car bans should happen when public bus routes are having so many issues.

You'd need real political support behind that

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009131#Comment_120009131

Thanks for that. Yes, I understood that you will have to walk up from the N4 buses to the interchange. But currently it is a 15 minute exercise to transfer so making it easier asap is very important. Good to hear the new terminus is already in progress, but until the n4 bus stops are moved and the new bridge is in place it will remain a horrible transfer option.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009368#Comment_120009368

Most of these measures will happen anyway with the cbc project and have been through 3 rounds of non statutory public consultation already.

bk

Disappointing to hear that BusConnects will be delayed further, but understandable given the issues.

I wonder though with the delay, might it be a good idea to rethink the ordering of the phases. We have seen that the new N4 route is a major win of the project and I wonder if it might not be better to focus first on rolling out all the orbital routes (O ring, N2, southern and western orbitals) first, before returning to tackling the core routes.

I fell like the orbitals give us the biggest bang for the buck, add most to the network, while being the least controversial and troublesome.

While the core routes of course still need to be done, is more about "optimising" largely existing routes, which could be done more gradually.

I know ideally you want the orbital routes to line up with the core routes for optimal use, but they are still very useful even without that and anyway we also need the infrastructure part of the project to get the full impact.

Also I wonder could they rollout more 24/7 core routes like the 41, ahead of the core rollouts. It sucks for other parts of the city to have to wait so long to benefit from 24/7 routes.

cgcsb

Agreed the O route should be priority and quick build infrastructure to make buses more reliable. More bus gates and greater restrictions on cars can improve the service without increasing staffing.

DaBluBoi

Issue with O route is that height restrictions and high PVR mean they need a lotta single deckers. With supply chain issues still prominent, it would still take ages for it to actually run, not to mention the high amount of drivers needed

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016097#Comment_120016097

Getting buses shouldn't be an issue all they'd have to do is swap GAI Streetlites for double deckers if they wanted it to start before the Electric Enviro 200s and charging infrastructure is ready. Getting drivers is the problem.

Bendybuses would probably be best for the O route but given DBs history with bendies and poor stop infrastructure it won't happen.

dublinman1990

I thought the supply chain issues for getting new buses would be fairly good for now. I thought there was a new fleet of electric buses that was meant to be delivered to run the new routes in 2023. The new single decker EA5 was brought over to Athlone depot fairly recently for delivery.

It would have made sense to have them on some of the new BC routes until then. But could that plan is now potentially up in the air for another few months.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016097#Comment_120016097

Where are the height restrictions on the proposed Orbital route?

I'm guessing maybe Seville Place? If so, surely a route could be found to avoid some of the low bridges?

I'm not sure how well such a route would function without bus lanes. Macken Street, for example, is a mega bottleneck.

cgcsb

Machen st rail bridge is the issue. We'd also need at a minimum bus gates at phibsboro and scr-adelaide rd to keep the buses moving

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016705#Comment_120016705

The route could use Westland Row for the time being. Buses could divert from NCR down through Gardiner Street or Amiens Street, then onto the south quays and down Lombard / Westland Row.

These streets have more space for buses compared to Seville Place and Macken Street.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120016705#Comment_120016705

In reality, there needs to be a major rethink of roads within the canals. Get rid of 2way roads everywhere and add more bus lanes.

Perhaps, for example, SCR could be eastbound only for car traffic while the Royal Canal facilitates westbound flow (or vice versa, or a bit of both)...

Katiepie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009131#Comment_120009131

So are they just moving the motorway bus stops to be across from the new bus interchange? You will still be able to get the c spine outside liffey valley?