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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion
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punisher5112 wrote: »Hold on a second,,,, expand¿
Db is doing the exact same thing so basically you can't see why do we need anyone else to come in and do exactly the same thing.
The nta runs the show so what they say goes,
Why oh why do we always sell everything off to anything but the Irish.
Same crap with housing.
Competition in the bidding process forces DB to up their game - that's a good thing.
At the end of the day the companies will be employing staff in Ireland, paying Irish payroll taxes, VAT and Irish company tax.
I don't think any Irish operator would be capable of operating a reasonably large city operation - that does need experience which Go-Ahead should have.0 -
Its clearly not competition though.
Come on seriously its in no way competition.0 -
punisher5112 wrote: »Its clearly not competition though.
Come on seriously its in no way competition.
You're right it isin't competition and nor should it be.
True competition in the bus market would be bus wars. Which do not benefit anyone. Competition in the urban pt sector does not work. It is someting we should be striving for.0 -
Why are the 84/a not included with G.A.? They included the 63 which was made orbital at the same time. Genuinely curious.
Darren0 -
Fizzy Duck wrote: »Why are the 84/a not included with G.A.? They included the 63 which was made orbital at the same time. Genuinely curious.
Darren
The 84 isn't an orbital route, up until network direct it travelled all the way into the city centre. possible it could go back there.0 -
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punisher5112 wrote: »Its clearly not competition though.
Come on seriously its in no way competition.
The bidding process is the competition.
Or are you saying that DB didn't make a serious bid to retain the routes?
There are plenty of ways that DB can up their game as a result of this - the quality of customer service and customer information being the main area in my view.
I don't see this as a negative for DB as such - they should take it as an opportunity to improve in those areas - it's something they've never quite got on top of.0 -
The bidding process is the competition.
Or are you saying that DB didn't make a serious bid to retain the routes?
There are plenty of ways that DB can up their game as a result of this - the quality of customer service and customer information being the main area in my view.
I don't see this as a negative for DB as such - they should take it as an opportunity to improve in those areas - it's something they've never quite got on top of.
Db put in the lower bid to go ahead.
Look its the nta's way of starting privatisation.
The government over the last 40 years or more has tried but failed, since nta was set up as a subsidiary to the department of transport creating more high paying jobs they do have to show they are doing something.
Its another let's create big money for our pals.
Look where go ahead has their HQ its right beside the nta.
It again isn't privatization though as of yet as db couldn't increase or change anything unless told to do so.
This same principal applies to go ahead.
Its a joke.0 -
punisher5112 wrote: »Db put in the lower bid to go ahead.
Look its the nta's way of starting privatisation.
The government over the last 40 years or more has tried but failed, since nta was set up as a subsidiary to the department of transport creating more high paying jobs they do have to show they are doing something.
Its another let's create big money for our pals.
Look where go ahead has their HQ its right beside the nta.
It again isn't privatization though as of yet as db couldn't increase or change anything unless told to do so.
This same principal applies to go ahead.
Its a joke.
I think you're reading far too many conspiracy theories - particularly regarding office space.
DB have time and time again let themselves down in terms of customer service and quality of information, inability to schedule buses on a corridor basis, and other aspects - I suspect that the NTA decided it was time for someone else to come in, and in that way force DB to improve their service.
As I said before - I view this as a chance for DB to improve their customer service levels - that has to be a positive.0 -
I think you're reading far too many conspiracy theories - particularly regarding office space.
DB have time and time again let themselves down in terms of customer service and quality of information, inability to schedule buses on a corridor basis, and other aspects - I suspect that the NTA decided it was time for someone else to come in, and in that way force DB to improve their service.
As I said before - I view this as a chance for DB to improve their customer service levels - that has to be a positive.
Db has a 97% rating of service....
Look I agree they have been bad years ago but things have improved a lot to the days of most buses breaking down and no shows and no feedback to passengers.
Don't be mistaken its not privatization in any way but its the start of getting rid of anything to do with the state.
Why do we need to pump money out of the country because that's where it will go when you have businesses from anywhere other then here.
I'm no conspiracy theory person I just see things for what they are.
In the end go ahead will actually cost more like with and privately run business as they aren't doing it for free and need to make nice profits.0 -
punisher5112 wrote: »Db has a 97% rating of service....
Look I agree they have been bad years ago but things have improved a lot to the days of most buses breaking down and no shows and no feedback to passengers.
Don't be mistaken its not privatization in any way but its the start of getting rid of anything to do with the state.
Why do we need to pump money out of the country because that's where it will go when you have businesses from anywhere other then here.
I'm no conspiracy theory person I just see things for what they are.
In the end go ahead will actually cost more like with and privately run business as they aren't doing it for free and need to make nice profits.
Of course they have improved but there is still a long way to go in terms of quality of customer information.
It's the detail stuff that they are consistently bad at - that's what pulls them down - that's what they need to focus on to pull their socks up. It's what infuriates people more often than not.0 -
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Fizzy Duck wrote: »Why are the 84/a not included with G.A.? They included the 63 which was made orbital at the same time. Genuinely curious.
Darren
63 is a local route similar to the 59 and 111. The 17 and the 75 are obitial routes.
Also there is more of a possibility that the 84 may be extended back into town than than the 63 getting extended into town as it's DL routing has proven popular one the better network direct reroutings.0 -
punisher5112 wrote: »Db has a 97% rating of service....
You have a source for that?
Because my hit and miss experience with DB over time is nowhere near 97%0 -
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Tickityboo wrote: »The NTA
I'm asking for the actual source because if its based on Dublin Bus self reporting then I can chuckle and get on with my life0 -
You have a source for that?
Because my hit and miss experience with DB over time is nowhere near 97%
Latest NTA quarterly survey. Its up in every garage with a break down on each result.
If you are ever in the city centre, goto Earl Place Dublin Bus lost and found. A public building. There will be a big poster of it.
DB are delivering. Regardless of what a few disgruntled online customers are complaining about.
Facts on routes and runs are data collected by the NTA from the busses GPS and wayfarer machines. Which they have direct access to.
Results reflect missed or late services, state of buses . ie. are they cleaned, weekend, evening and rush hour services. and so on. Its all on the poster.0 -
Untrue. These reports are compiled by Dublin Bus itself, not the NTA. This is clearly stated here.
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/public-transport-services/bus/dublin-bus/reports/
The requirements reported on are very lenient.
Please provide your evidence for your statement that NTA have direct access to GPS and Wayfarer machines.0 -
brokenarms wrote: »Latest NTA quarterly survey. Its up in every garage with a break down on each result.
If you are ever in the city centre, goto Earl Place Dublin Bus lost and found. A public building. There will be a big poster of it.
DB are delivering. Regardless of what a few disgruntled online customers are complaining about.
r.
Self reported and thus utterly worthless
Today, I had a bus go from 7 minutes away right up to due but never show up. A phone call Dublin Bus reveals it never ran on its route and neither was the next one going to despite being on RTPI.
You can be sure that won't show up in a report.
A few years ago Dublin Bus land at number 9 in a top 10 of worst brands in a NATIONAL survey. That takes some doing for a Dublin company.0 -
Self reported and thus utterly worthless
Today, I had a bus go from 7 minutes away right up to due but never show up. A phone call Dublin Bus reveals it never ran on its route and neither was the next one going to despite being on RTPI.
You can be sure that won't show up in a report.
A few years ago Dublin Bus land at number 9 in a top 10 of worst brands in a NATIONAL survey. That takes some doing for a Dublin company.
Ask anyone who has reported a late or non-running bus the response they received.
Ask customers who have had buses literally take the wrong turn (shorter for the driver) if they received a satisfactory answer as to why.
Dublin Bus have a deplorable customer service record. Just look at their outright lies on Twitter and the lack of customer satisfaction there.
This is without seeing the fobbing off of customers via the official complaints procedures.0 -
mullyboyee wrote: »Ask anyone who has reported a late or non-running bus the response they received.
Ask customers who have had buses literally take the wrong turn (shorter for the driver) if they received a satisfactory answer as to why.
Dublin Bus have a deplorable customer service record. Just look at their outright lies on Twitter and the lack of customer satisfaction there.
This is without seeing the fobbing off of customers via the official complaints procedures.
You are having a laugh about the twitter surly. Hundreds of thousands of passengers perday versus 30 negative tweets.
Some of which are just people blowing off steam because they were looking at their phone instead of watching for their bus. Or others who think they should be let onto a full bus. Others giving out because the driver did let people onto a full bus. Some more malicious tweets from serial complainers and people with an agenda .. Twitter is a thing that cant be positive no matter what they do.
How are they fobbing folk off by asking them to send a formal email instead of getting into a twitter argument?
The official survey is there. If you dont want to believe it then thats ok.
I would imagine missed services that dont show up on the survey are things that are beyond DB control. Diversions or events in town. Not much help for someone waiting in the rain.
Do you really think this only happens to our bus service?0 -
brokenarms wrote: »You are having a laugh about the twitter surly. Hundreds of thousands of passengers perday versus 30 negative tweets.
Some of which are just people blowing off steam because they were looking at their phone instead of watching for their bus. Or others who think they should be let onto a full bus. Others giving out because the driver did let people onto a full bus. Some more malicious tweets from serial complainers and people with an agenda .. Twitter is a thing that cant be positive no matter what they do.
How are they fobbing folk off by asking them to send a formal email instead of getting into a twitter argument?
The official survey is there. If you dont want to believe it then thats ok.
I would imagine missed services that dont show up on the survey are things that are beyond DB control. Diversions or events in town. Not much help for someone waiting in the rain.
Do you really think this only happens to our bus service?
Anytime I've contacted them via social media they have fobbed me off and have avoided answering the question or given a PR style reply which is more interested in protecting their image and everything else than actually answering the question that they are being asked. I outline an example.
Me: "Hi, why did the 12.20 bus on route x not run from the terminus"
DB: "Hi, all buses are running, which stop are you waiting at?"
Me: "I don't see why that is relevant."
DB: "if you don't tell us, we can't tell you."
Me: "It's very simple, what happened to the 12.20 bus, did it run as normal?"
DB: "What stop are you waiting at."
Me: "A bus went out of service at my stop and did not pick up passengers."
DB: "No bus did not operate, all services are operating."
Me: "Stop Number xxxx."
DB: "The bus operated past that stop no services are canceled."
I mentioned that I would be forwarding a copy of this conversation on to the NTA, which was followed by a response from them saying that "Sorry, we checked again and the bus started further up the route due to operational reasons, please accept our apologies." and promptly deleted their earlier tweets.
Note that the first question that I asked they did not want to answer directly because it would mean admitting a fault so they kept saying all services are operating. They appeared more concerned with giving a good PR image to those looking in than actually helping myself, who asked them a question.
Twitter is a great tool for companies to use to communicate with their customers but sadly some companies run it from a marketing point of view rather than a customer support point of view, to be fair though, Dublin Bus are not the only ones who do this.
The whole idea of asking someone to email it in is to take other peoples eyes off it and direct complaints to somewhere where lots of people cannot see it. Same way Dublin Coach's twitter team tell you they can't give out details on delays or positions of coaches so you will have to phone them.0 -
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The real kicker is the actual data of what services that ran/were cancelled/rerouted is treated like its the third secret of Fatima so you can't check those figures against your own experience.
Doubt the NTA will change that though.0 -
To pass the ‘services run’ criteria, DB only needs to run 19 out of 20 services. This means that if you use the bus twice a day for two weeks, you should expect a service not to run on one occasion.
This is a shockingly low standard to set.0 -
antoinolachtnai wrote: »To pass the ‘services run’ criteria, DB only needs to run 19 out of 20 services. This means that if you use the bus twice a day for two weeks, you should expect a service not to run on one occasion.
This is a shockingly low standard to set.
that's the reality. 95% doesn't sound too bad tbh, but when put like the above it sure does!0 -
Anytime I've contacted them via social media they have fobbed me off and have avoided answering the question or given a PR style reply which is more interested in protecting their image and everything else than actually answering the question that they are being asked. I outline an example.
Me: "Hi, why did the 12.20 bus on route x not run from the terminus"
DB: "Hi, all buses are running, which stop are you waiting at?"
Me: "I don't see why that is relevant."
DB: "if you don't tell us, we can't tell you."
Me: "It's very simple, what happened to the 12.20 bus, did it run as normal?"
DB: "What stop are you waiting at."
Me: "A bus went out of service at my stop and did not pick up passengers."
DB: "No bus did not operate, all services are operating."
Me: "Stop Number xxxx."
DB: "The bus operated past that stop no services are canceled."
I mentioned that I would be forwarding a copy of this conversation on to the NTA, which was followed by a response from them saying that "Sorry, we checked again and the bus started further up the route due to operational reasons, please accept our apologies." and promptly deleted their earlier tweets.
Note that the first question that I asked they did not want to answer directly because it would mean admitting a fault so they kept saying all services are operating. They appeared more concerned with giving a good PR image to those looking in than actually helping myself, who asked them a question.
Twitter is a great tool for companies to use to communicate with their customers but sadly some companies run it from a marketing point of view rather than a customer support point of view, to be fair though, Dublin Bus are not the only ones who do this.
The whole idea of asking someone to email it in is to take other peoples eyes off it and direct complaints to somewhere where lots of people cannot see it. Same way Dublin Coach's twitter team tell you they can't give out details on delays or positions of coaches so you will have to phone them.
I don't see why you were so reluctant to give the stop information. A lot of the above conversation could've been avoided if you told them what stop you were at - at least half of it. In the end, if it skipped some of the route to get back on time, it seems like it was a very relevant piece of information.
Either way, often enough - happened tonight actually - buses approach my stop with 'out of service' on the front display. Almost all of the time there was nothing wrong except the driver didn't realise what was on the display.
Most buses in my experience that are skipping a section of a route don't run OOS on the route unless they can't avoid it.0 -
Anytime I've contacted them via social media they have fobbed me off and have avoided answering the question or given a PR style reply which is more interested in protecting their image and everything else than actually answering the question that they are being asked. I outline an example.
Me: "Hi, why did the 12.20 bus on route x not run from the terminus"
DB: "Hi, all buses are running, which stop are you waiting at?"
Me: "I don't see why that is relevant."
DB: "if you don't tell us, we can't tell you."
Me: "It's very simple, what happened to the 12.20 bus, did it run as normal?"
DB: "What stop are you waiting at."
Me: "A bus went out of service at my stop and did not pick up passengers."
DB: "No bus did not operate, all services are operating."
Me: "Stop Number xxxx."
DB: "The bus operated past that stop no services are canceled."
I mentioned that I would be forwarding a copy of this conversation on to the NTA, which was followed by a response from them saying that "Sorry, we checked again and the bus started further up the route due to operational reasons, please accept our apologies." and promptly deleted their earlier tweets.
Note that the first question that I asked they did not want to answer directly because it would mean admitting a fault so they kept saying all services are operating. They appeared more concerned with giving a good PR image to those looking in than actually helping myself, who asked them a question.
Twitter is a great tool for companies to use to communicate with their customers but sadly some companies run it from a marketing point of view rather than a customer support point of view, to be fair though, Dublin Bus are not the only ones who do this.
The whole idea of asking someone to email it in is to take other peoples eyes off it and direct complaints to somewhere where lots of people cannot see it. Same way Dublin Coach's twitter team tell you they can't give out details on delays or positions of coaches so you will have to phone them.
I don't see why you were so reluctant to give the stop information. A lot of the above conversation could've been avoided if you told them what stop you were at - at least half of it. In the end, if it skipped some of the route to get back on time, it seems like it was a very relevant piece of information.
Either way, often enough - happened tonight actually - buses approach my stop with 'out of service' on the front display. Almost all of the time there was nothing wrong except the driver didn't realise what was on the display.
Most buses in my experience that are skipping a section of a route don't run OOS on the route unless they can't avoid it.
I asked them a simple question. All they had to do was answer it but they were more interested in face saving and putting out positive spin than actually answering it..
I gave them the route number and departure and asked them why it didn't operate from the terminus rather than trying to avoid saying the bus did not run as normal and instead using spin to avoid saying that. did it take me threatening to report them to answer said question?
It's a bit like Bus Eireann who are avoiding using the word canceled at all costs with the recent issues on Eastern services. Spin and company image are far more important than customer service when customer service should always come first.
We've also saw it with timetable changes where Dublin Bus say that they are listening to customers and that they want more from a route and they are pleased to deliver it only to find there is a timetable cut hidden behind a positive spin news article.0 -
Anytime I've contacted them via social media they have fobbed me off and have avoided answering the question or given a PR style reply which is more interested in protecting their image and everything else than actually answering the question that they are being asked. I outline an example.
Me: "Hi, why did the 12.20 bus on route x not run from the terminus"
DB: "Hi, all buses are running, which stop are you waiting at?"
Me: "I don't see why that is relevant."
DB: "if you don't tell us, we can't tell you."
Me: "It's very simple, what happened to the 12.20 bus, did it run as normal?"
DB: "What stop are you waiting at."
Me: "A bus went out of service at my stop and did not pick up passengers."
DB: "No bus did not operate, all services are operating."
Me: "Stop Number xxxx."
DB: "The bus operated past that stop no services are canceled."
I mentioned that I would be forwarding a copy of this conversation on to the NTA, which was followed by a response from them saying that "Sorry, we checked again and the bus started further up the route due to operational reasons, please accept our apologies." and promptly deleted their earlier tweets.
Note that the first question that I asked they did not want to answer directly because it would mean admitting a fault so they kept saying all services are operating. They appeared more concerned with giving a good PR image to those looking in than actually helping myself, who asked them a question.
Twitter is a great tool for companies to use to communicate with their customers but sadly some companies run it from a marketing point of view rather than a customer support point of view, to be fair though, Dublin Bus are not the only ones who do this.
The whole idea of asking someone to email it in is to take other peoples eyes off it and direct complaints to somewhere where lots of people cannot see it. Same way Dublin Coach's twitter team tell you they can't give out details on delays or positions of coaches so you will have to phone them.
You have repeated this story ad nauseam on these boards - it really is getting a bit tiresome reading it over and over again. It’s getting a bit like a broken record and frankly repeating it yet again is not helping the reputation of this forum as one for impartial discussion.
I know many people in Ireland are fond of conspiracy theories, but perhaps don’t you think that there is the possibility that the person made an honest mistake?
The notion that the person responding on social media people are deliberately making things up to mislead people frankly is getting ridiculously far fetched. I don’t believe that for one minute.
Like the previous poster, I’d have to say that I suspect that you didn’t exactly help yourself with your own responses. What was the issue with giving the stop number in the first place? The social media staff won’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the network and simple things like helping them out with a stop number isn’t rocket science.
You had a bad experience for sure, but that doesn’t mean that people are deliberately trying to mislead you.
One bad experience doesn’t mean that everything is rotten.0 -
You have repeated this story ad nauseam on these boards - it really is getting a bit tiresome reading it over and over again. It’s getting a bit like a broken record and frankly repeating it yet again is not helping the reputation of this forum as one for impartial discussion.
I know many people in Ireland are fond of conspiracy theories, but perhaps don’t you think that there is the possibility that the person made an honest mistake?
The notion that the person responding on social media people are deliberately making things up to mislead people frankly is getting ridiculously far fetched. I don’t believe that for one minute.
Like the previous poster, I’d have to say that I suspect that you didn’t exactly help yourself with your own responses. What was the issue with giving the stop number in the first place? The social media staff won’t have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the network and simple things like helping them out with a stop number isn’t rocket science.
You had a bad experience for sure, but that doesn’t mean that people are deliberately trying to mislead you.
One bad experience doesn’t mean that everything is rotten.
and your constant putting down of anyone who has a differing opinion of DB/BEs service is equally tiresome.0 -
I mentioned that I would be forwarding a copy of this conversation on to the NTA, which was followed by a response from them saying that "Sorry, we checked again and the bus started further up the route due to operational reasons, please accept our apologies." and promptly deleted their earlier tweets.
Starting to have as much faith in the DB performance numbers as AGS' ability to count breath tests.
Open up a RTPI API for developers, let us monitor actual movements. Transparency isnt a problem if you've nothing to hide.....0 -
You have repeated this story ad nauseam on these boards - it really is getting a bit tiresome reading it over and over again.
t’s getting a bit like a broken record and frankly repeating it yet again is not helping the reputation of this forum as one for impartial discussion.
I repeat this story because it's in response to a related point a poster made and rather than try and just post something without an example I just felt I would give one. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and people will have different views, but just giving my own two cents to the discussion.
To be absolutely clear when I post in standard text I am posting as a regular poster on this website and my posts should be taken as such, I'm simply airing my view and experiences and anyone is entitled to do that.The notion that the person responding on social media people are deliberately making things up to mislead people frankly is getting ridiculously far fetched. I don’t believe that for one minute.
Like the previous poster, I’d have to say that I suspect that you didn’t exactly help yourself with your own responses. What was the issue with giving the stop number in the first place?
I simply said that I believed they were spinning, not making things up. You will notice that even when I gave them the stop number they repeated the same line. I believe they were more interested in repeating that all services were operating and no buses were cancelled more than anything else and I would expect them to know if a bus left a terminus in service.
I could have given them a stop number but on that particular route, I did that twice before and their response is simply that the next bus is due in x minutes which on both occasions, an out of service bus also went past. When your colleague several times catches a bus 5 minutes up the road on the same route and you've not seen a bus for half an hour, it's enormously frustrating.You had a bad experience for sure, but that doesn’t mean that people are deliberately trying to mislead you. One bad experience doesn’t mean that everything is rotten.
I agree that it doesn't mean that everything is rotten but my issue happened more than once as outlined above.0 -
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Cookie_Monster wrote: »and your constant putting down of anyone who has a differing opinion of DB/BEs service is equally tiresome.
Really? You’ve only got to look a few posts further up this very thread to see me criticise DB and one look at the BE109 thread and I think you’ll find that I was as critical of them as I could be.
Just because I tend to take a more measured approach rather than either jumping in feet first all the time, or making sweeping generalised statements as some here do doesn’t mean I don’t think that they ought not to be criticised.
It’s about a sense of balance - all too often people make sweeping statements here and frankly the level of debate is heading for the floor once again.0
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