BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

I repeat this story because it's in response to a related point a poster made and rather than try and just post something without an example I just felt I would give one. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and people will have different views, but just giving my own two cents to the discussion.

To be absolutely clear when I post in standard text I am posting as a regular poster on this website and my posts should be taken as such, I'm simply airing my view and experiences and anyone is entitled to do that.

I simply said that I believed they were spinning, not making things up. You will notice that even when I gave them the stop number they repeated the same line. I believe they were more interested in repeating that all services were operating and no buses were cancelled more than anything else and I would expect them to know if a bus left a terminus in service.

I could have given them a stop number but on that particular route, I did that twice before and their response is simply that the next bus is due in x minutes which on both occasions, an out of service bus also went past. When your colleague several times catches a bus 5 minutes up the road on the same route and you've not seen a bus for half an hour, it's enormously frustrating.

I agree that it doesn't mean that everything is rotten but my issue happened more than once as outlined above.

I wasn’t referring to you as a mod at all - I was referring to the general tone of this forum.

Repeating the same story again and again in detail isn’t adding anything to the discussion to be frank - once is enough surely? You’ve posted it here at least three or four times now.

I get as frustrated as anyone when my bus doesn’t turn up (it’s profoundly irritating), but I can see why certain operational decisions are taken to get the service back on track. Now that seems to irritate some people here, but that’s me just looking at the bigger picture which isn’t always clear.

I just find it hard to believe that someone in that role is deliberately setting out to mislead people to be honest.

monument

Thread closed until it can be reviewed.

monument

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and your constant putting down of anyone who has a differing opinion of DB/BEs service is equally tiresome.

LXFlyer wrote: »

I wasn’t referring to you as a mod at all - I was referring to the general tone of this forum.

Repeating the same story again and again in detail isn’t adding anything to the discussion to be frank - once is enough surely? You’ve posted it here at least three or four times now.

I get as frustrated as anyone when my bus doesn’t turn up (it’s profoundly irritating), but I can see why certain operational decisions are taken to get the service back on track. Now that seems to irritate some people here, but that’s me just looking at the bigger picture which isn’t always clear.

I just find it hard to believe that someone in that role is deliberately setting out to mislead people to be honest.

Everyone needs to stop telling others what to post or not. It’s getting past back seat modding. If it carries on, I will go straight to infractions.

Everyone gets frustrated of different views posted again and again (including myself), but in the case of Dublin Bus and buses not running, this is common and long-term issues, and you don’t need to be into conspiracy theories to think that many in the Irish public / semi-public sector are hiding data that makes them look bad.

— moderator

devnull

LXFlyer wrote: »

I get as frustrated as anyone when my bus doesn’t turn up (it’s profoundly irritating), but I can see why certain operational decisions are taken to get the service back on track.

It's frustrating to be a couple of stops away the terminus and see the bus came past in line with the timetable, operated out of service until a couple of stops further up route on multiple occasions. Sometimes to the point where it leaves a stop that is supposed to have a 20 minute service with an hourly service.

Really, the bus went past all of the stops anyway to start the route further up, it would have used maybe a couple of minutes to actually stop at the 3-4 bus stops it missed. It's not like it was going to delay the bus by 10-15 minutes or more.

Now that seems to irritate some people here, but that’s me just looking at the bigger picture which isn’t always clear.

Unfortunately my boss doesn't care about the bigger picture if I would be late for work because two buses in a row have not ran as scheduled, he just cares that I am at work on time and if I cannot rely on the bus I simply will use the car instead.

brokenarms

devnull wrote: »

It's frustrating to be a couple of stops away the terminus and see the bus came past in line with the timetable, operated out of service until a couple of stops further up route on multiple occasions. Sometimes to the point where it leaves a stop that is supposed to have a 20 minute service with an hourly service.

Really, the bus went past all of the stops anyway to start the route further up, it would have used maybe a couple of minutes to actually stop at the 3-4 bus stops it missed. It's not like it was going to delay the bus by 10-15 minutes or more.



Unfortunately my boss doesn't care about the bigger picture if I would be late for work because two buses in a row have not ran as scheduled, he just cares that I am at work on time and if I cannot rely on the bus I simply will use the car instead.

I dont think you fully understand why a service needs to be regulated.

devnull

brokenarms wrote: »

I dont think you fully understand why a service needs to be regulated.

I understand perfectly why a service needs to be regulated in late running, what I don't understand is why a bus that leaves the terminus on time needs to miss out a handful of stops since the time gained is only going to be a couple of minutes at best.

If it was running very late and was quite a bit down I'd understand completely if it was to be turned around before the terminus to recover service, but that is not what happened in my case.

Muahahaha

Was that the quickest banning in Boards history? Registers account, posts twice in a minute and is banned lol!

Beasty

Muahahaha wrote: »

Was that the quickest banning in Boards history? Registers account, posts twice in a minute and is banned lol!

Not by a long chalk. He's signed up around 20 accounts already today, but most have been banned while still awaiting e-mail activation. Anyway, that's not the topic of this thread

ED E

devnull wrote: »

I understand perfectly why a service needs to be regulated in late running, what I don't understand is why a bus that leaves the terminus on time needs to miss out a handful of stops since the time gained is only going to be a couple of minutes at best.

A cynic might say the driver refused to be late back to terminus at end of shift...

punisher5112

There are many reasons why buses can't run.

Last night incident on bus was travelling on so that was off the road for the night.

Only ran if another driver could be found to cover.

schemingbohemia

ON TOPIC - now funded A €7.5bn transport capital programme over the next four years also includes €750m for a complete redesign of the capital's bus network, called Bus Connects, along with €110m for walking and cycling facilities in our main cities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/major-boost-for-dublin-as-construction-work-on-metro-north-to-get-underway-in-2021-36218162.html

dublinman1990

schemingbohemia wrote: »

ON TOPIC - now funded A €7.5bn transport capital programme over the next four years also includes €750m for a complete redesign of the capital's bus network, called Bus Connects, along with €110m for walking and cycling facilities in our main cities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/major-boost-for-dublin-as-construction-work-on-metro-north-to-get-underway-in-2021-36218162.html

The €35 million quoted in that article for biofuel & diesel buses. Is that new funding for buses being allocated for BusConnects in 2019?

schemingbohemia

dublinman1990 wrote: »

The €35 million quoted in that article for biofuel & diesel buses. Is that new funding for buses being allocated for BusConnects in 2019?

No, could fund buses elsewhere in the country not just Dublin or as part of Bus Connects, well that's how it reads to me.

Surprised at lack of talk on this, Bus Connects is going to be huge, and it's been funded and will happen a lot sooner than Metro North.

Dyr

schemingbohemia wrote: »

ON TOPIC - now funded A €7.5bn transport capital programme over the next four years also includes €750m for a complete redesign of the capital's bus network, called Bus Connects, along with €110m for walking and cycling facilities in our main cities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/major-boost-for-dublin-as-construction-work-on-metro-north-to-get-underway-in-2021-36218162.html

Wonder if the walking facilities will extend to putting four sets of pedestrian crossings on junctions rather than just three?

Or is the idea to make pedestrians walk more?

AlekSmart

schemingbohemia wrote: »

No, could fund buses elsewhere in the country not just Dublin or as part of Bus Connects, well that's how it reads to me.

Surprised at lack of talk on this, Bus Connects is going to be huge, and it's been funded and will happen a lot sooner than Metro North.

Ah there's talk all right...or at least some form of retaliation before the fact ....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/dublin-housing-estates-to-lose-bus-services-claims-nbru-1.3258163

The Jarrett Walker principle is fairly well known in the Public Transport sector,particularly in his native North America.

Some of his preferences have been tried here before,fadó fadó,during the Bob Montgomery period when Dublin Bus introduced the CitySwift/City Imp and Local Link branding.

However it is accurate to say,that this is the very first time such plans have been suggested as a broader multi-facted approach to Dublins Public Transport issues.

What is also of HUGE relevance is the fact that,for the very first time in my experience,the FUNDING for this venture appears to have been fully provided for...now THAT is really surprising...:eek:

I'm still wondering if it's all a big wind-up.????????

Dyr

Thank god we have the NBRU looking out for us :pac:

The problem with the Jarret Walker plan is that the more elements you have to a journey then the greater the disruption that dublin buses inability to perform will cause it

Bus transfers might sound great in theory but in practice I reckon people will wind up avoiding them like plague

Stephen15

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ah there's talk all right...or at least some form of retaliation before the fact ....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/dublin-housing-estates-to-lose-bus-services-claims-nbru-1.3258163

The Jarrett Walker principle is fairly well known in the Public Transport sector,particularly in his native North America.

Some of his preferences have been tried here before,fadó fadó,during the Bob Montgomery period when Dublin Bus introduced the CitySwift/City Imp and Local Link branding.

However it is accurate to say,that this is the very first time such plans have been suggested as a broader multi-facted approach to Dublins Public Transport issues.

What is also of HUGE relevance is the fact that,for the very first time in my experience,the FUNDING for this venture appears to have been fully provided for...now THAT is really surprising...:eek:

I'm still wondering if it's all a big wind-up.????????

It's either the NBRU are a shower of hypocrites or they are just trying to show their beef towards the NTA.

Its only a couple of weeks ago they were threatening to withdraw buses from Tallaght estates due to antisocial behavior and they are now calling for buses to kept in estates and not be rerouted.

During virtually every strike they complain about underfunding now a billion is being invested in public transport they are complaining about that.

antoinolachtnai

Well, the reality is that this is all part of a set of moves, and the whole network will go out to tender. NBRU aren't going to like that.

I can't see DB cutting back services during off peak in housing estates. Really, they don't go through housing estates that much anymore. The fleet and the financial model doesn't lend itself to narrow roads.

If you were really cutting things back and wanted to maximise your revenue, you would *only* run buses through the estates (especially 'mature' estates) during off peak times, when there are plenty of spare buses and drivers available. You would avoid running them at peak times, when working people who don't mind walking a bit wouldn't have much choice but to walk down to the bus.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

It's either the NBRU are a shower of hypocrites or they are just trying to show their beef towards the NTA.

Its only a couple of weeks ago they were threatening to withdraw buses from Tallaght estates due to antisocial behavior and they are now calling for buses to kept in estates and not be rerouted.

During virtually every strike they complain about underfunding now a billion is being invested in public transport they are complaining about that.

Drivers that are threatening to go on strike because of the fact that routes may be changed are showing a defiance of authority and interfering with something that does not concern them. It's the responsibility of the authorities and the relevant management to be involved in route design and not that of the drivers themselves.

The staff spend enough time saying that certain things are not their job and they won't do things unless they are paid for them, but designing routes is also not their job but they seem happy to get involved in them despite the fact that this does not concern them. By all means they are allowed to have an opinion and their say, but as we're often told, their job is to drive the bus, not run the company.

Then you have the ultimate irony of the NBRU who moan about the fact that management are overpaid and useless, but time and time again we see examples where the managers are not being allowed to manager because there is constant interference from the driving grade who do not allow them to manage. Because of this management would have a significantly harder job, which would mean that they'd look for a higher wage to take such role.

BusConnects is either going to be a big success or a complete failure, the bus network here needs a complete overhaul rather than small tweaks and that will require people to deal with change to give a better service overall which might be uncomfortable for some. If we see a similar attitude from the likes of the NBRU being more widespread then any positive changes overall will end up being watered down so the network is a jack of all trades and master of none pretty much like Network Direct.

Also you'd have to ask the the wiseness of this move, because if they see that DB staff kick up a lot of fuss about a new network it may make it more likely for more routes to be tendered in the future.

TheQuietFella

devnull wrote: »

Also you'd have to ask the the wiseness of this move, because if they see that DB staff kick up a lot of fuss about a new network it may make it more likely for more routes to be tendered in the future.

Are you saying here Bwana that 'if they don't behave ye'll take away their sweeties and put them in the naughty corner?

antoinolachtnai

devnull wrote: »

Also you'd have to ask the the wiseness of this move, because if they see that DB staff kick up a lot of fuss about a new network it may make it more likely for more routes to be tendered in the future.

Well, I think they are going to go out to tender no matter what. That still has to play out.

devnull

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Are you saying here Bwana that 'if they don't behave ye'll take away their sweeties and put them in the naughty corner?

No, I'm saying that the bus network in Dublin needs a massive overhaul to serve the public and the city better than it is doing so at present and it is not the job of drivers grade staff at a company to dictate on what terms that it will be and insubordinate the people who are responsible for these areas.

The unions are quick enough to say that something is not their job on a regular basis when it suits them, this certainly isn't their job and if they keep interfering then steps need to be taken to ensure that staff of a company are unable to dictate matters which are outside of their remit.

In a perfect world I would like to see DB retained and reformed rather than slowly being totally dismantled over time, but overhauling public transport in this company is far more important to allow it to be frustrated by the unions and if the unions don't want to allow much needed change to happen, then steps need to be taken to deal with that.

Stephen15

It does seem like the NBRU are trying to stir sh!t, when there's no industrial dispute at presently. It keeps them news relevant I guess.

Dyr

Stephen15 wrote: »

It does seem like the NBRU are trying to stir sh!t, when there's no industrial dispute at presently. It keeps them news relevant I guess.

Once it's announced there's money for transport projects the NBRU get bolshy to be sure that they trouser some of it

All the players on the transport gravy train will be along soon enough looking for their cut of the funds

john boye

Didn't one of the unions pull a similar stunt before the BE strike? Went around the country holding meetings with locals to tell them that BE were planning to cut their routes but that they would stand up for them (in an effort to win support from the locals)? Then when push came to shove it turned out that all they wanted was more money and they went on strike looking for a pay rise and all the propaganda about canceling local routes was quickly forgotten.

devnull

john boye wrote: »

Didn't one of the unions pull a similar stunt before the BE strike? Went around the country holding meetings with locals to tell them that BE were planning to cut their routes but that they would stand up for them? Then when push came to shove it turned out that all they wanted was more money and they went on strike looking for a pay rise and all the propaganda about canceling local routes was quickly forgotten.

It's like when people go on strike and say that it's for 'pay and safety' reasons, often the moment they are tossed a bit of extra money they soon forget about the safety aspect which they were claiming which was just hung in there to try and drum up public support.

john boye

devnull wrote: »

It's like when people go on strike and say that it's for 'pay and safety' reasons, often the moment they are tossed a bit of extra money they soon forget about the safety aspect which they were claiming which was just hung in there to try and drum up public support.

And God knows the PT unions need public support, People have just grown sick of them in the last few years.

Carawaystick

devnull wrote: »

Twitter is a great tool for companies to use to communicate with their customers .

Twitter's also great because readers on boards can read the tweets, if only the first tweet url was posted, so we could see for ourselves.

brokenarms

devnull wrote: »

No, I'm saying that the bus network in Dublin needs a massive overhaul to serve the public and the city better than it is doing so at present and it is not the job of drivers grade staff at a company to dictate on what terms that it will be and insubordinate the people who are responsible for these areas.

The unions are quick enough to say that something is not their job on a regular basis when it suits them, this certainly isn't their job and if they keep interfering then steps need to be taken to ensure that staff of a company are unable to dictate matters which are outside of their remit.

In a perfect world I would like to see DB retained and reformed rather than slowly being totally dismantled over time, but overhauling public transport in this company is far more important to allow it to be frustrated by the unions and if the unions don't want to allow much needed change to happen, then steps need to be taken to deal with that.

The NBRU have every right to be concerned for its members.
This will change the way its members work. And possibly the terms and conditions of their employment.

You are saying they should butt out and drivers should be completely ignored. But if the NTA should work along side them, so they can design a route that keeps both workers and passengers happy. And avoid any future problems. This is what will happen IMO

The NBRU are correct in this news link.
The new new network may well take busses out of estates. Which will be a disaster for some people. For example The 77a will probably disappear.

People in these estates should be very concerned about this new move.

devnull

brokenarms wrote: »

You are saying they should butt out and drivers should be completely ignored. But if the NTA should work along side them, so they can design a route that keeps both workers and passengers happy. And avoid any future problems. This is what will happen IMO.

Drivers should have a say and be allowed to air their opinion, certainly and it should be considered, but ultimately it's not their job to make the final calls and the public must come first, it's called public transport after all.

The NBRU are correct in this news link. The new new network may well take busses out of estates. Which will be a disaster for some people. For example The 77a will probably disappear. People in these estates should be very concerned about this new move.

Unfortunately providing all day direct bus services to/from the city center to/from each housing estate is a grossly inefficient use of resources and actually harms the frequency of many routes. Connecting buses in some cases will reduce journey times for many and vastly increase the frequency as well as well as allowing better use of resources.

It is the job of drivers to drive the bus and not other things. I've heard this enough times in the past when a passenger has asked for assistance with directions or onward connections and ticketing information. Nice to see that they won't help the passengers on the street but are prepared to meddle in things which there are people in jobs specifically for.

Any attempts to frustrate the overhaul of the bus service must not be allowed to happen and BusConnects must put the customer first, right now they are being short changed and this seems nothing more than an attempt by the unions to take advantage of the fact that people are resistant to change so they can keep the current broken system going as it suits the unions to do so.