BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

TheQuietFella

Bambi wrote: »

Indeed, give cyclists their own lanes so they don't impinge on pedestrians and buses as is their want

A little bit of zero tolerance enforcement to stamp out the bad habits and bobs your uncle, we're all moving at a faster clip

They have their own lanes (granted in places) but the majority of cyclists don't use them for one reason or another! i.e. Lucan/Glasnevin.
Other cyclists are probably not moving fast enough for them!

LeinsterDub

Tickityboo wrote: »

It is an issue in bus lanes when you can't overtake because of backed up traffic on the outside lane.

Again most bus lanes are so non continuous that all that happens is when the bus passes the cyclists they hit a traffic light or have to merge with the standard lane

LeinsterDub

nilescraneo wrote: »

Sit on the N4 morning or evening on one of the X routes being held to a crawl by cyclists in bus lane, with traffic in next lane so no room to overtake, and repeat that.

Never had experience of that to be honest but they have dedicated resources for this kind of thing in Bus Connects. Very poor lane design to create this situation.

bk

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Precisely. Where there is a footpath or a garage forecourt like I mentioned earlier, the cyclist should dismount until the bus passes (3 seconds maybe?) and then go on their way. Not holding up a bus that way are they?

Mounting and dismounting from your bike is the most dangerous thing you can do on a bike. It is the time when most cyclist accidents occur.

This is the reason cities with good bike infrastructure do things like allow cyclists to continue right (continental Europe obviously) on a red light, rather then having to stop. Or when they do have to stop, allowing them to do so far out front of the stopping line of the car giving them more space and time to mount their bike.

Bikes blocking buses is simply poor road design and space allocation. Dedicated quality bike lanes and this problem goes away.

TheQuietFella wrote: »

They have their own lanes (granted in places) but the majority of cyclists don't use them for one reason or another! i.e. Lucan/Glasnevin.
Other cyclists are probably not moving fast enough for them!

Ever bother to ask them why?

The reason is most bike lanes in Ireland are of terrible quality and pretty much useless. Usually just a crappy line painted on the side of the road offering no protection at all. Usually full of road debris, leafs, potholes and drain covers, etc.

It might not be obvious to a person comfortably sitting in their car, but it is very obvious just how bad they are to cyclists and it is usually MUCH safer to cycle on the road then it often is in the bike lane.

BTW if a cyclists is going fast enough that other cyclists are slowing them down, then s/he is likely a very speedy cyclist and likely going much faster then any car or bus in traffic anyway. It is slow, commuter type cyclists that might hold up buses and they are the ones who really need to the good dedicated, Amsterdam style cycle lanes.

orangerhyme

I wouldn't be critical of cyclists as it's a huge benefit to a city and society the more people that cycle. I won't list the benefits here, since we all know them, but cycling is a no brainer.

The bike to work scheme was introduced in 2009, right at the start of the recession, so I'd imagine cycling infrastructure was neglected since it just wasn't a priority.
Cycling has really taken off since then and I think the city hasn't caught up yet.

I really think the Busconnects scheme needs to be done in unison with cycling policy and infrastructure; they occupy the same space and attract similar demographic, so it's obvious really.

Dyr

AlekSmart wrote: »

+100% !

It is beyond belief that ANY so called proffessional would devise,design and install the typical Bus Stop/Cycle Lane infrastructure we take for granted in Dublin.

Bear in mind that the optimum solution would physically segregate pedestrians from cyclists rather than lump them in together

It could be done while prioritizing buses but Dublin just does not do enforcement of traffic laws and unless that's addressed then bus connects is goosed from the start

nilescraneo

They do a glossy bus PR campaign every decade or so. They did it with QBC's and Cityswift in the 90's, ND in the 00's and now bus connects. I will be pleasantly surprised if anything of any significance changes. Many of the issues raised in the posts above highlight a complete lack of integrated planning between various state bodies/councils etc that is required to bring about any long term improvement of services. Unless that bus connects fella can bring about a simultaneous 'government connects' then I think it is going to be a pointless, frustrating and expensive endeavour!

BonnieSituation

nilescraneo wrote: »

They do a glossy bus PR campaign every decade or so. They did it with QBC's and Cityswift in the 90's, ND in the 00's and now bus connects. I will be pleasantly surprised if anything of any significance changes. Many of the issues raised in the posts above highlight a complete lack of integrated planning between various state bodies/councils etc that is required to bring about any long term improvement of services. Unless that bus connects fella can bring about a simultaneous 'government connects' then I think it is going to be a pointless, frustrating and expensive endeavour!

But the expense will not be his fault.

RayM

They're now seeking the public's views on a new livery.

https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/refreshing-bus-livery/

(spoiler alert: they're all bland, dated and ugly, just in subtly different ways)

Cookie_Monster

colour by mode, on the very same page where they describe each mode having it's own unique colour they have Luas as purple but red in the map...

all 4 are fairly disappointing and very similar in colour usage

devnull

There's not much positive about that page and the survey and is the first sign that Busconnects may not reach its potential because it won't be implemented in the way it was first outlined.

They've kept the bad livery from the first example. Got rid of the average one and added another 3 terrible ones which all look awful if you ask me and I don't like any of them.

They've also indicated that they may not require a common livery over the whole network and may allow operators to have their own versions which shouldn't even be up for debate.

I wonder if it is the result of pressure from Dublin Bus? If it is it doesn't bode well for the overall project if concessions are being made to operators already and questions the ability of the NTA to make decisions that parties may not like in order to deliver a fully centralised and intergrated system for the benefit of the passenger.

Dyr

Jesus lads. We need to start a campaign, them yokes as far as the eye can see in the city centre is a scary thought

L1011

Option A could cause issues with Orla Kiely...

Dyr

I'd love to see the BS pitch some design company came up with to accompany those efforts

Or do the NTA have some in house guru who specced it out?

punisher5112

Silver or bare aluminum look would look cool.

Dyr

punisher5112 wrote: »

Silver or bare aluminum look would look cool.

Would a metallic paint not be more expensive?

Pay Maser to come up with one of his striped/chevron designs, silver and green or gold and blue

I'm not a fan of a lot of his stuff but it could work on buses

orangerhyme

I dont see the big need for new livery but I guess itll all tie in with the launch of the new bus system and marketing strategy.

The key is to make Bus transport better, faster, more convenient, cheaper etc than driving a car.

bk

orangerhyme wrote: »

I dont see the big need for new livery but I guess itll all tie in with the launch of the new bus system and marketing strategy.

The key is to make Bus transport better, faster, more convenient, cheaper etc than driving a car.

The reason for it, is the fact that in future we will have multiple companies operating buses in Dublin, for instance Go Ahead will operate 10% of current DB routes and more might come in future. So obviously GA can't use DB's colour scheme.

A consistent colour scheme for all companies, similar to London, where all companies use the same red colour scheme is a very good idea.

However I agree that the colour schemes being offered look terrible IMO

And yes there are lots of other things that need to be fixed with buses too, this is just one small part of a much bigger picture.

orangerhyme

I think they should just stick with yellow cos its easy to see, the most visible colour hence the yellow cabs in NY

devnull

orangerhyme wrote: »

I think they should just stick with yellow cos its easy to see, the most visible colour hence the yellow cabs in NY

So you're saying essentially that we should spend large amounts on the overhaul of Bus services in the country, but give those with negative perceptions of bus services and haven't used it for ages, the perception that nothing has changed?

Has to be marketed as a break from the past, hence the need for a new livery that is something fresh, that's before you take into account the current livery is the corporate identity of Dublin Bus so it cannot be used anyway by other companies for obvious reasons and nor will Dublin Bus agree to it.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

So you're saying essentially that we should spend large amounts on the overhaul of Bus services in the country, but give those with negative perceptions of bus services and haven't used it for ages, the perception that nothing has changed?

Has to be marketed as a break from the past, hence the need for a new livery that is something fresh, that's before you take into account the current livery is the corporate identity of Dublin Bus so it cannot be used anyway by other companies for obvious reasons and nor will Dublin Bus agree to it.

The corporate identity of London Transport is still used to this day on TFL buses and was used by other operators while LT was still around.

orangerhyme

devnull wrote: »

So you're saying essentially that we should spend large amounts on the overhaul of Bus services in the country, but give those with negative perceptions of bus services and haven't used it for ages, the perception that nothing has changed?

Has to be marketed as a break from the past, hence the need for a new livery that is something fresh, that's before you take into account the current livery is the corporate identity of Dublin Bus so it cannot be used anyway by other companies for obvious reasons and nor will Dublin Bus agree to it.

I dont mean copy the old design but keep the yellow.
Since the plan of the mass transit system is that Luas, DArt and Dublin bus are all interlinked and interchangable in one system, perhaps match the Luas design which is grey with a yellow stripe

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

The corporate identity of London Transport is still used to this day on TFL buses and was used by other operators while LT was still around.

London is a completely different story.

In 1989 London Bus operations were divided into a number of companies and London Regional Transport itself ceased to operate services directly but remained as an overarching body that retained the ownership of the livery and corporate identity. After 1989 the services were technically and legally operated by each of the newly formed divisions that were set up in advance of being sold off.

Between October 1994 and January 1995 the formed companies were sold off to the private sector, one by one which did lead to a 3 month period where some of the operators that had been sold were wearing the same livery as the ones that had not been sold but none of these companies were London Regional Transport as that company ceased to operate services in 1989 and by this point was a transport authority and a regulator.

What would happen is in 1999 the bus side of London Regional Transport, essentially now a regulator of buses in the city and a transport authority was merged into a new entity called London Buses in preparedness for the establishment of an overall Transport body for the City of London which was founded in 2000 called Transport for London which would become the parent of London Buses and therefore inherit all of it's assets.

This is completely different to what is happening in Ireland because Dublin Bus has not been broken up, split up and sold off with the remaining assets becoming a regulator and the regulator we do have do not have ownership of the brand that Dublin Bus uses.

bebeman

devnull wrote: »

Drivers that are threatening to go on strike because of the fact that routes may be changed are showing a defiance of authority and interfering with something that does not concern them. It's the responsibility of the authorities and the relevant management to be involved in route design and not that of the drivers themselves.
.

Does anyone here know who DB management are? I doubt it.
Posters here take a interest in DB , the wider public most certainly does not, and would not know if a manager sat beside them on a bus, which i have had happen on a bus i was driving several times.

So the simple fact is when things go wrong its the driver who is in the firing line for public anger.
So when drivers see management coming up with a idiotic plan we want the unions to try stop it, as we know us drivers are going to get abuse for the stupid decisions of management.

bebeman

devnull wrote: »

The staff spend enough time saying that certain things are not their job and they won't do things unless they are paid for them, .

Bold statement , can you back it up?

bebeman

devnull wrote: »

Then you have the ultimate irony of the NBRU who moan about the fact that management are overpaid and useless, but time and time again we see examples where the managers are not being allowed to manager because there is constant interference from the driving grade who do not allow them to manage.

.

Care to share a few examples?

bebeman

devnull wrote: »

It's like when people go on strike and say that it's for 'pay and safety' reasons, often the moment they are tossed a bit of extra money they soon forget about the safety aspect which they were claiming which was just hung in there to try and drum up public support.

In many many jobs this would be called danger pay.
Pay more and staff will turn a blind eye to certain things, its fairly common

bebeman

john boye wrote: »

And God knows the PT unions need public support, People have just grown sick of them in the last few years.

Nurses have massive public support, dont do them any good in pay disputes.

bebeman

devnull wrote: »

Drivers should have a say and be allowed to air their opinion, certainly and it should be considered, but ultimately it's not their job to make the final calls and the public must come first, it's called public transport after all.
.

Zero input has been sought from drivers, no so much as a questioner.
Do you thing this is wise?
Might drivers have a bit of insider knowledge that could be of use to those running bus connect?

liger

bebeman wrote: »

Bold statement , can you back it up?

Change of terminus.
New bills
First use checks
48hour week
loss of route
Any bus type training
Any additional training, ticket equipment etc.