BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641389#Comment_121641389

Once I helped a visually impaired man find his bus, I shouldn't have bothered cos it's not my job.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641445#Comment_121641445

Good for you.

Still doesn't make it the bus drivers job to know.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641451#Comment_121641451

It is. Transfers are a big part of Busconnects philosophy.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641463#Comment_121641463

You can say "it is" all you want, but it isn't going to make it so.

Get a data plan and learn your own route.

rameire

I went into bank of ireland the other day asking about a PTSB bank account, they said they couldn't help me. I told them they should know they were a bank.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641369#Comment_121641369

Taxi drivers aren't driving a 12 tonne vehicle with 90 on board

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641640#Comment_121641640

Stupid analogy.

tom1ie

Just reading the last few pages here and I didn’t realise the RTPI “real time” info was done off a predicted timetable.

I would have thought the ETA to the bus stop you are at is actually GPS pinged from the bus stop to to the bus?

Maybe I’m expecting too much?!

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641463#Comment_121641463

Transfers are big part of travelling on the tube but I suspect Victoria line drivers aren't getting asked where the Hammersmith and City line goes from

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641806#Comment_121641806

Actually that a good point.

The tube maps are fairly easy to understand from the pov of transfers and there are maps at every station to show this.

Is this the case at the bus stops?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641777#Comment_121641777

Is that really true?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641806#Comment_121641806

Not a good analogy either.

I wouldn't ask airline pilots info on another flight I was transferring onto.

Also the Tube has maps everywhere so it's unnecessary to ask anyone.

I don't think it's too much to ask Dublin bus drivers where to transfer onto the orbital routes.

It's pretty basic info. Not everyone has a smartphone. There's only 3 orbital routes on southside and a couple on the Northside.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641873#Comment_121641873

Im not sure how it works but I would’ve thought there’s a transponder on the bus that pings to a receiver on your bus stop that tells you how far away the bus is, which is then crossed referenced with google maps traffic data to give you a predicted arrival time?

Maybe I’m expecting a bit too much though?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641894#Comment_121641894

I just assumed each bus had GPS and an arrival time was estimated.

Where does the bustimes.org data come from?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641914#Comment_121641914

Yeah good question. I don’t know?

If there are transponders on the busses why can’t they interact with traffic lights to turn them green when busses are approaching also?

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641942#Comment_121641942

I heard part of Busconnects plan was for traffic lights to turn green, but I can't remember where I heard it or if I dreamt it.

I think they should promote Busconnects a bit more. Maybe when a bit more is completed.

cgcsb

Good grief, 2 pages of absolute cac.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641884#Comment_121641884

So why would you not expect a pilot to know but you would a bus driver? Explain that oh let me guess you're another entitled passenger who thinks bus drivers are lower than you're level and should be treated as you're personal servants.

And what about people who can't read maps?

And there's actually four southern orbitals the S2, S4, S6 and S8. Wait you expect bus drivers to know every orbital route and don't even know them all yourself. That in and of makes you're argument null and void.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642048#Comment_121642048

? What? Talking about transponders on busses isn’t “cac”

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642062#Comment_121642062

It's not entitled to expect a bus driver to know basic info.

I rarely get the bus, the bus drivers on that route every day. It's not unreasonable to expect him to know where the orbitals cross his route. It doesn't make my argument null and void.

I was on the 46a, the bus driver hadn't even heard of the S2. A normal response from the bus driver would be:

"yes of course I know it. I drive this route every day. It would be weird if I didn't know an orbital route which was just launched to great fanfare and is important to my passengers for transfers which is one of the core tenets of Busconnects.

You can transfer at Appian Way."

dublinman1990

The driver who was working on the 46a couldn't have known the S2 route because those routes are run from 2 separate depots. The 46a is run out from Donnybrook. The S2 is run from Conyngham Road which is near Heuston Station & Chesterfield Avenue. I would not blame the 46a driver for not knowing that information tbh. He probably just knows about routes that are run from his own depot & that's it.

Also; I was just reading a very interesting article from the BBC News website about First Bus in the UK about rolling out AI in making up bus timetables as a means to improve punctuality and reliability in their bus services.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67993056

Do you think the AI methods in creating bus timetables would ever become a possibility in the future for BusConnects timetables and for other bus routes here in Ireland even though AI is currently has a piece of legislation for this topic within the EU?

Midnight_EG

And along with that, the two routes only meet for a very brief space of 30 meters between Waterloo Road and Appian Way. It's just another bus on the road, the numbers mean nothing if we don't have to drive them. I meet the S2 on Appian Way a few times a day, but jaysus I can't tell you where it goes.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641777#Comment_121641777

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641894#Comment_121641894

I think you are probably expecting too much for a system like this, but I also think you're not grasping it fully.

Ok in very simple English:

1) Every bus has a GPS transponder which sends the live location of the bus every 30 seconds to the system.

2) Every individual departure on a bus route has a stop-by-stop timetable drawn up by bus company scheduler which is based on average journey times for those particular bus journeys.

3) To come up with the predicted arrival time of the bus at a particular stop, the system takes the live GPS location of the bus, looks at the schedule for that departure, and applies the predicted journey time taken from the bus location per that schedule to come up with a estimated arrival time at that stop.

4) Taking the L53 route as a simple example, you can see this schedule for the L53 here - https://bustimes.org/services/l53 - these are drawn up by the bus company schedulers

5) Taking the 12:15 departure from Adamstown to Liffey Valley as per the photo below, say someone is waiting at Balgaddy Buirg an Rí (just over halfway along the route) waiting for this bus. It is scheduled to arrive at that stop at 12:28.

6) But, say the bus has encountered a five minute delay at the fourth stop along the route, Adamstown Castlegate Walk.

7) As long as the bus remains at that location, it will show as arriving at Buirg an Rí in 11 minutes, which is the predicted journey time using the schedule (12:28 less 12:11 per the timetable) until it starts moving again. In this case, the predicted arrival times will just increase by the five minute delay all along the route.

8) The system will then apply the predictive journey times from that schedule above to each stop to the live GPS location of the bus to come up with updated arrival times.

9) The scheduled journey times drawn up by the schedulers, change depending on the time of day and the different traffic conditions that normally apply at those times, also takes into account the extra time that buses will take over cars due to stopping at bus stops along the route to come up with realistic journey times

So, in summary, the system will take the live GPS position of the bus every 30 seconds, and will then apply the predicted journey times from the individual stop-by-stop timetable for that departure to the GPS location to come up with an estimated arrival time at any stop further along the route.

It does not use Google Maps traffic data.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641942#Comment_121641942

They already do at many junctions across the city, but only for a relatively short period.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642074#Comment_121642074

That would only be a normal response if it came from an AI chatbot.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121640215#Comment_121640215

The ones I really can't understand are the one on Terenure Road West Eastbound, close to the busy junction, Crumlin Village Eastbound and Drimnagh Road Westbound. The Terenure one is particularly unnecessary.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121641389#Comment_121641389

I was with you until this. This is just nonsense, a taxi driver is going to have to have some idea how to **get to a destination**. Either by Google Maps or a general idea of how to get to that part of the city efficiently

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642608#Comment_121642608

First of all, you have to remember that this is all a massive work-in-progress, both in terms of the network and the infrastructure.

Stops may be removed as other routes go through the BusConnects network phases, and there will be changes to bus stop locations as part of the infrastructure core bus corridors. Some of these changes are in advance of the latter.

Also, adding/removing stops to/from existing routes means their entire stop-by-stop timetable needs to be redone and it seems that the NTA are reluctant to do so until those routes are being “BusConnected”.

The idea of the stops closer to junctions is to facilitate changes by reducing the walking distance between routes.

That new stop on Terenure Road West is to facilitate people changing from the S4 to the outbound routes on Templeogue Road.

It is quite possible that when the 15a is changed to the 81 that the previous stop on Terenure Road West will be removed.

The additional stop in Crumlin Village is presumably down to providing a stop closer to the shops than the two existing alternatives. One may be removed

The current westbound stop before the Halfway House junction is due to be replaced by two on the far on Walkinstown Road and another on Long Mile Road as part of the Tallaght-Clondalkin CBC Scheme.

The new stop on Drimnagh Road will bridge the gap between these relocated stops at the Halfway House and the previous one opposite Crumlin Hospital (it would be 700m without it). It will be served by the other routes when the D-Spine launches. Incidentally the westbound stop on Drimnagh Road before the Kildare Road junction will be removed as part of the CBC works.

Daith

I wouldn't expect a bus driver to know about other routes.

However I wouldn't expect customers to know that buses come from different garages or indeed different operators.

It would be much better for the NTA to get an umbrella customer centre and contact number for all routes and services.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121642358#Comment_121642358

That’s good to know.

When you say a relatively short period do you mean that once the transponder interacts with the traffic light to turn it green, the light stays green until the bus passes?

Do we know what junctions this happens at as I definitely have not seen this on the 15B-in fact quite the opposite, the lights always seem to be going red and stopping the bus- eg at Rathgar village.