BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478214#Comment_122478214

Ah come on. Can we raise the level of debate beyond this sort of nonsense?

It’s delayed that’s all.

The E Spine will happen later in the year.

That doesn’t mean that small changes to accommodate particular demand changes or journey time issues can’t happen in the meantime on other routes.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122467076#Comment_122467076

I could be ignorant here, but why remove a shelter?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478430#Comment_122478430

Every road east of Westland Row until you get to Lansdowne Road is off limits for all double decks.

At one stage or another over the last sixty years a bus has lost the top deck under virtually all of them.

Not an option.

trellheim

mm looking at the arch on Macken St you'd need to replace the bridge with a flat span to make it work for doubledeckers , road lowering would need to go over a metre at least , the only other option would be to pull the O in under Westland row bridge or as mentioned push it out to Lansdowne rd which wont really work as a route.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479624#Comment_122479624

I can’t see any of that happening.

There are 34 single decks already delivered for use on the O Route.

cgcsb

I think single decks would be fine if they can be kept frequent but the infrastructure just isn't there. The existing 46a has a peak hour frequency roughly every 20 minutes. Off peak there van be 40 minute gaps and it's timetabled for every 5 minutes and 10 minutes respectively.

Stillnotworking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478376#Comment_122478376

Whats happening with the 150, extra services or changes to the routes? Any idea when these will be operational? Thanks.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479675#Comment_122479675

Routes are moving around between depots to facilitate the installation of charging facilities at the rest of the depots.

Ringsend is next up.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479652#Comment_122479652

Only a new bridge would do it and reluctantly I can't see them bothering to spend the money

Let's take your numbers for the O route . 34. Take 2 out as spares or hangar queens , leaves 32 as a nice round number.

16 clockwise, 16 anti clockwise , means likely 8 on the northside and 8 on the southside going in each direction. Given this bus will be spending a huge amount of time loading and unloading as its a feeder as well as an orbital is that enough buses to keep up an 8 min frequency ? Drumcondra, Phibsboro, James Hospital, Beckett Bridge in both directions ( no bus lanes on cardiff lane or Guild st ) are all giant blocks as cgcsb has been pointing out

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479855#Comment_122479855

Given this bus will be spending a huge amount of time loading and unloading as its a feeder as well as an orbital is that enough buses to keep up an 8 min frequency ?

Well single deckers should have lower dwell times then double deckers, that is one of their advantages. Of course ideally we should get the next gen ticketing and drop cash fares / driver interaction to get the maximum benefit from it.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478376#Comment_122478376

I imagine the 83 change is to cover off the loss of service through the estates when the 17 & 18 were removed?

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479675#Comment_122479675

The 150 is supposedly going to Summer hill and will get EWs on it. According to Tapatalk, there's been driver training for the route been done using the EWs.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479916#Comment_122479916

Yes that's it

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479675#Comment_122479675

Extra buses. I wouldn't expect any major frequency change, it will just make the current frequency levels more manageable which is an improvement in itself. Should be in some time this month.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480046#Comment_122480046

The CEO of the NTA made the point at the recent Oireachtas Transport Committee meeting that some routes are about get an increased peak vehicle requirement (PVR) just to maintain the existing timetable as the running times need to be extended due to the impact of traffic.

I’d imagine that any changes will come in on the 25th of August as the schools start returning that week.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480070#Comment_122480070

Yes I believe the 65 changes have to be in before schools go back.

cgcsb

I wonder will we notice an improvement when the city centre traffic measures come into effect.

AX636

150 Starts in Summerhill on the 18th of this month drivers have being doing route training and drivers that are coming with the route are getting trained on the EW and the Summerhill duties of 33 will be going to Harristown

dublinman1990

I was reading a post on Reddit recently which was about a bus user in Rathfarnham making enquiries about the rollout date for the A-Spine by the NTA.

The poster was making enquiries about when the L35 & A2 were going to be implemented when they go out from their terminus in Dundrum Luas Bridge/Dundrum Luas Station. The poster said it made contact with Go-Ahead to ask them about when the A-Spine was going to be implemented in the Dundrum & Rathfarnham area. One of Go-Ahead's drivers had said to the Reddit poster by word of mouth that they had too many drivers in their company at the moment.

Once the driver from Go-Ahead said to the Reddit poster that they had too many drivers in the company at this time; I had assumed that Go-Ahead would use their newer drivers for the local routes that will be rolled out under the E-Spine and for the N2 only. They might not have had the adequate resources in their company to actually do more than what is required at the moment according to the current arrangements being made with the NTA.

However when I read the Echo article this evening about Paul Murphy pleading to the NTA about making changes to the 65 in Blessington. Does this development about the potential changes for the 65 place Go-Ahead into the mix about them taking on a route that resembles the L44 which would go between Blessington/Ballymore Eustace & Tallaght in the next few weeks. As the 65 would be changed under the A-Spine; would it make more sense for me to say that Go-Ahead will take on a route like the L44 in future. Or will these rumours about upcoming changes being made to the routes under the C-Spine, 65, 83 & 150 just involve Dublin Bus routes only?

Would there be any potential changes in place for the L51 & L52 which are run by Go-Ahead under the C-Spine?

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480104#Comment_122480104

I'm wondering more if buses make their time quicker than usual, will they still have to sit at stops for several minutes 'to get back on schedule'?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480945#Comment_122480945

Well that will depend on Dublin Bus schedulers adjusting the stop by stop schedules to reflect the revised traffic conditions.

dfx-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122478643#Comment_122478643

Packing out the buses is not a service, especially not much vaunted new revolutionary one.

Squishing on and squeezing off the bus is not how you sell the service.

A full single decker is just as miserable experience as a full SG or PA.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122481302#Comment_122481302

So just like the Luas and yet that is rated as the best public transport in Ireland!

Been on many full single deckers all over Europe and it is a better experience then double deckers. They are fast, very quick at stops, quick on and off times. Of course often 3 or 4 doors which is even better then just the two doors on the EA's so we will see how that goes.

The level of frequency and the speedier service will be something relatively new for Ireland, it will be interesting to see how it goes. Though I'd prefer if they went all in on Luas style operation, no driver interaction 3 or 4 doors.

A single decker every 5 minutes will be more attractive then a double decker every 10 minutes, less waiting around for a bus, that people like, plus more capacity per hour. A single decker every 5 minutes will have a capacity of 876 per hour per direction, versus just 528 people per hour for a double decker every 10 minutes.

Of course the "downside" is double the number of drivers needed.

Also again, people won't be spending much time on this route, mostly short, quick trips to connect to other bus routes, etc.

There is a reason why only a handful of countries use double deckers and most of the world use single deckers. As long as you have high frequency, they are a better service.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122481636#Comment_122481636

Two things:

Firstly, there’s a big difference between standing on a tram and on a bus. They are not remotely comparable. I wouldn’t use that argument.

Secondly I’m not sure what you are on about when it comes to frequency? The O is scheduled to be at same frequency as the 46a already is, every 8 mins. The double deck operated 46a is frequently full as it is along the NCR.

Southside the O will ultimately replace the 9, 16, 122 and 68/a along the SCR. The O will be more frequent than the current service for some of the SCR, but less so on other parts.

I have mixed feelings about this change - the route operating full circle in both directions will help spread loadings out, but we will have to wait and see just how it pans out.

I would agree that many journeys are likely to be far shorter on the O, but not those those travelling between city centre and the NCR.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122481794#Comment_122481794

Mea Culpa, I honestly thought it was a 5 minute frequency!

To be honest I'd rather they had gone all out on the Luas model treatment for this route. Off bus ticketing, 3 or 4 doors, It feels like they only want half way with it. We will have to wait and see how it works out.

On standing on a bus, EV buses tend to be much heavier due to the batteries and tend to have a more stable ride then traditional buses. Maybe not Luas, but better then a traditional bus too.

trellheim

The O route is scheduled for 8 mins only at peak and then drops back to every 15 mins after 6pm . As a 46a NCR regular at all hours it is usually 8 mins or less frequency all the time i.e. I never have to worry about it. And its jammed all the time outbound and since the 46a is being removed before the E and B come in things are not going to improve any time soon as the 39 corridor is perma-busy .

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122481882#Comment_122481882

Don't really see the issue with standing on a bus generally. The likes of the AV and AX were very poor for standing pax due to narrow gangways and a lack of standing space but the SG/PA are much better for standing than their predecessors.

Been on buses with lots of standees on the continent and always thought those were better for standing on plenty of handrails and straps to hold on to.

Always thought the buses in the airport for the carparks worked really well for carrying standing passengers and thought it was a bit of pity that we couldn't use those kind of buses on urban services.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122481924#Comment_122481924

Just to point out, the 11 is planned to take over the 46a routing between O'Connell Street & Infirmary Road as a stop gap until the O route starts up, so service wont be completely removed with the launch of the E spine. I'm not sure if it is recieving a frequency increase as part of that change though.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122481958#Comment_122481958

They will have to have like for like capacity along the NCR - that will probably involve short workings between the Phoenix Park and city centre.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122481925#Comment_122481925

The eternal problem about standing on buses in Dublin vs the continent is that in Dublin a 40' bus journey barely brings you into the city centre (from Northside) or still leaves you about 20' short of said city centre (from Southside), whereas in comparable cities on the continent on cross-city routes 40' will probably have you well overshot of the city centre and halfway on the other side already, more often than not thanks to less stops and shorter dwell times.

Having said that, there is a belt of routes that will doubtlessly have a lot shorter on average trips than others, and I'm counting the O, N2, and S2 in that.

Re: the 150, as others have said, that road is going to Summerhill, frequencies not changing however I think. Funnily enough I think in the case of the 150 Summerhill could well just take the Ringsend bill and adjust the few differences (walking times and the like) and it'd still be "legal", but if needs be then needs do.