BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

sharper

loyatemu wrote: »

classing taxis as public transport is ludicrous - a large number of the taxis driving around town have no passengers in them, so the number of people they are transporting is effectively zero. The majority of the rest are carrying 1 passenger with a small number carrying multiple passengers. I suspect the number of people transported averages at around 1 per taxi so no better than private cars.

You can see the problem most clearly when there's a disruption. A couple of days ago there was an accident on Usher's quay in the late afternoon that severely disurpted traffic along the quays. Busses moved very very slowly because the lane was clogged with taxis (and a fair few private cars too).

If anyone cared about issueing tickets it would be easy money walking down the lane and noting licence plate numbers

LeinsterDub

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Getting rid of the morning and evening 69x and 51D departures (both excellent, busy routes) a total of 6 journeys, in favour of one morning only departure of proposed route 355 is lunacy and wrong, I didn't care what PR spiel is put on it as an improvement.

I assume you mean the 255 which will feed directly into the Luas?

LionelNashe

loyatemu wrote: »

what a muppet - there does seem to some confusion about the "trunk route" concept, but he's Labour's candidate for Wicklow basically saying he can't read and understand a consultation document.

It's an understandable mistake to make on first looking at the maps, but to still be under the misapprehension by the time he'd drafted and posted a blog post, and to not have retracted it on his blog or on twitter 24 hours later is a bit nuts. I hope the voters in Bray take note.

Plus, it's not acceptable to be expressing 'outrage' in a kneejerk fashion just because your own little corner of the city has been impacted negatively. Maybe some areas had a particularly good service before, at the expense of other areas, but the new plan is aiming to provide the maximum amount of benefit to the maximum number of people, regardless of what was there before.

LionelNashe

Live stream of meeting happening now:

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1014510267902971904

Peregrine

LionelNashe wrote: »

It's an understandable mistake to make on first looking at the maps, but to still be under the misapprehension by the time he'd drafted and posted a blog post, and to not have retracted it on his blog or on twitter 24 hours later is a bit nuts. I hope the voters in Bray take note.

I doubt they'd even know. The local newspaper spread his initial misunderstood comments. Even if he corrects himself on Twitter, it's unlikely it would get as much coverage as the misinformed blog and news article. Unless Wicklow News corrects it.

Zebra3

All this moaning about the elderly. Ffs, they’ll benefit from the changes too!! And the whole system will become easier for them to use and get across the city.

sharper

Zebra3 wrote: »

All this moaning about the elderly. Ffs, they’ll benefit from the changes too!! And the whole system will become easier for them to use and get across the city.

Proposals for bus prioritisation also get shot down on the basis that the elderly and disabled need excellent car access everywhere. It's a cheap tactic.

mcgovern

The closest bus stop to me seems to disappear under the proposals, next stop is about half a mile away. Then it's half a mile on that route to get to one of the trunk routes and the bus to get you there is only twice an hour. So realistically the nearest useful bus stop to my area will be a mile away. And that is a mile up an extremely steep hill on the way back from town (steep enough the double decker buses used to be unable to get up it when I was a kid).
So we would get more frequent buses but much longer journey times if you are prepared to walk, and longer journey times and similar frequency if you can't/down want to walk.
The proposed stop for the route is at a cramped train station by a one way bridge, there is absolutely no room there for a bus stop either.
Going from that stop to city centre by bus would take about an hour, and an hour to an hour and a half on way back (depending on how long you were waiting for the connecting bus).
Going to city centre from that stop by train would be about 30 minutes each way...
99% of the traffic on the connecting route would be getting on at the first stop and getting off at the second stop...

LionelNashe

A lot of talk from Jarret Walker about tourists being confused by the present system. I'm a Dubliner, and I rarely drive, so I use public transport quite frequently. Twice in the last 3 months, I got the wrong bus from Dorset Street trying to go to Whitehall, a journey I've made 100 times. The first time, I copped it when we turned left into Withworth Road, the second time we turned left on Griffith Avenue. So, it's of benefit to anyone who is getting on a bus that's not their daily bus.

CircleofLife

sharper wrote: »

Proposals for bus prioritisation also get shot down on the basis that the elderly and disabled need excellent car access everywhere. It's a cheap tactic.

Not a cheap tactic, it's reality.

L1011

Fairly extensive digging through this now and it still looks to me like Celbridge is quite royally shafted on frequency.

The buses will be emptier (no Maynooth passengers, or only those transferring from a W8) but the weekday peaks are barely changed when the removed X buses are counted; and evening - particularly weekend evening - is a huge drop from current frequency.

The train frequency at those times is not good enough to substitute, and the BE services that stop there are also thin on the ground then.

Definitely needs to be submissions from residents on that - but I'm worried they'll all panic over being routed via Leixlip and think they'll spend their lives staring at traffic there and go for that angle.

cgcsb

AlanG wrote: »

Bringing so many routes into the Blanc Center seems to be a recipe for disaster given that for most of November and December it it already at a standstill and will add 20-30 mins to any journey. Also expecting people form the Clonsilla road, blanch village and waterville to travel back out to the center through the associated traffic before going into town seems like a massive addition to any journey. An interchange at the hospital flyover near the M50 would make a lot more sense.

The infrastructure part will provide a new bus interchange at Tallaght Blanch and LV.

LeinsterDub

CircleofLife wrote: »

Not a cheap tactic, it's reality.

If they are using their car's then what happens to the bus doesn't really affect except if it removes traffic which will improve their journey times.

If they are using it then they'll get to where they want to quicker.

murphaph

Zebra3 wrote: »

All this moaning about the elderly. Ffs, they’ll benefit from the changes too!! And the whole system will become easier for them to use and get across the city.

Yep. They are not a different species.

cgcsb

Stephen15 wrote: »

The scaremongering is alive have they even read the proposals?

http://wicklownews.net/2018/07/worry-and-outrage-over-ntas-plans-for-the-bray-145-bus-route/

Truly bizzar how people can't read maps and then write articles about same, and nobody tells them.

LeinsterDub

LionelNashe wrote: »

Live stream of meeting happening now:

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/1014510267902971904

And now the morons of DCC have their say :rolleyes:

CircleofLife

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If they are using their car's then what happens to the bus doesn't really affect except if it removes traffic which will improve their journey times.

If they are using it then they'll get to where they want to quicker.

Not every disabled or elderly person can drive a car, just like not every disabled or elderly person can use a bus. Thus, both systems need to be able to support them to their to the best of their ability. To me the changes made look like they will make things more difficult for those that have issues with standing (both the extra waiting times due to how some routes interlink, and the extra crowds due how some of the routes interlink).

LeinsterDub

CircleofLife wrote: »

Not every disabled or elderly person can drive a car, just like not every disabled or elderly person can use a bus. Thus, both systems need to be able to support them to their to the best of their ability. To me the changes made look like they will make things more difficult for those that have issues with standing (both the extra waiting times due to how some routes interlink, and the extra crowds due how some of the routes interlink).

Isn't that an more of an issue with the current network? For example I get the 9, it's full I have to stand , I transfer to the 4 I've to wait 30 minutes , it's also full so I stand.

Higher frequency buses are less likely to be standing room only.

cgcsb

I know the infrastructure details are not yet clear but I'd be concerned about some routes, particularly those that are not part of a 'trunk route' and are unlikely to get significant investment.

Of particular concern is the O route which is supposed to be frequent but will pass through some very congested streets.

Thrashssacre

Watching the stream some truely moronic questions

"I'm assuming all expressos are they same you never mentioned them"

"Why are routes lowering frequency mid route then increasing again"

Can these people not read.......

LeinsterDub

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Watching the stream some truely moronic questions

"I'm assuming all expressos are they same you never mentioned them"

"Why are routes lowering frequency mid route then increasing again"

Can these people not read.......

"There is no Link to the Luas in Finglas" except of course the 36 ,the N2 ,the 262 and the F trunk

sharper

CircleofLife wrote: »

Not a cheap tactic, it's reality.

The reality is every change affects the disabled and elderly good and bad just as it does everyone else. Bus prioritisation improves life for those using public transport, it makes life harder for those that use cars. Redesigning the bus network improves things for the majority of users (disabled and elderly included) and makes things harder for some.

What's makes it a cheap tactic is when the perfectly able bodied use the infirm as a shield against inconvenience.

I refuse to believe that the staus quo delivers the maximum benefit to those that find it harder to get around with any change getting us further from that.

AlanG

TheChrisD wrote: »

Ultimately though, there will need to be one or two major B-spine stops along the N3 for access and interchanges. Ideally a stop built at the bridges over the Mill Road with pedestrian access built, and a proper interchange around Total Fitness - although who knows if the latter would even be considered as it might require the B-spine to turn off the N3 inbound and take the rather slumbering way across the M50 roundabout.

This is very true but I don't think there is any chance of it happening. When consultation was open for the redesign of the Snugborough road bridge over the N3 I put in a submission that they should engineer a safe accessible stop for buses on the N3 that people from waterville etc. could access to avail of the 39A - this was rejected. Without access onto the N3 thousands of people are denied the opportunity to use the B bus corridor that passes within a few hundred meters of their homes as there will be no stop between the center and the petrol station on the Navan road.

mirrorwall14

mcgovern wrote: »

The closest bus stop to me seems to disappear under the proposals, next stop is about half a mile away. Then it's half a mile on that route to get to one of the trunk routes and the bus to get you there is only twice an hour. So realistically the nearest useful bus stop to my area will be a mile away. And that is a mile up an extremely steep hill on the way back from town (steep enough the double decker buses used to be unable to get up it when I was a kid).
So we would get more frequent buses but much longer journey times if you are prepared to walk, and longer journey times and similar frequency if you can't/down want to walk.
The proposed stop for the route is at a cramped train station by a one way bridge, there is absolutely no room there for a bus stop either.
Going from that stop to city centre by bus would take about an hour, and an hour to an hour and a half on way back (depending on how long you were waiting for the connecting bus).
Going to city centre from that stop by train would be about 30 minutes each way...
99% of the traffic on the connecting route would be getting on at the first stop and getting off at the second stop...

Leixlip Confey? This does not look like an improvement

LeinsterDub

Mr Walker: Ok class i hope you all read the report I assigned for homework
DCC 1 : Balls! I see all these lines have you considered zig zags
Mr Walker: Read the report
DCC 2 : Feck ! eh eh what's a bus?
Mr Walker: Read the effing report
DCC 3 : ****e..
Mr Walker: Let me just stop you there. Have you read the report?

ITV2

eh, No....

AlanG

cgcsb wrote: »

The infrastructure part will provide a new bus interchange at Tallaght Blanch and LV.

Yes, but having a great interchange is no use if you unnecessarily bring people to it via some of the busiest roads in Dublin that regularly have buses sitting on them for long periods during busy shopping times. 261 users will have to cross the B corridor (N3) in order to go away from town and queue for access to the Blanch Center before they can take a bus back the way the came.

I wonder what time of year the consultants selected their traffic flow data from?

cgcsb

AlanG wrote: »

Yes, but having a great interchange is no use if you unnecessarily bring people to it via some of the busiest roads in Dublin that regularly have buses sitting on them for long periods during busy shopping times. 261 users will have to cross the B corridor (N3) in order to go away from town and queue for access to the Blanch Center before they can take a bus back the way the came.

I wonder what time of year the consultants selected their traffic flow data from?

The traffic data is annualized generally. The issue you mention is similar to the issue I highlighted already regarding the O route, which is not a trunk route but none the less passes through some congestion. There needs to be money set aside to remove bottlenecks on non-core routes if the system is to work overall. I'd say the O is a more challenging route than anything out in Blanch.

bk

I'm watching the live stream, really great presentation. Here are some interesting points:

- 90 minute fare (which will work across multiple buses, Luas and DART) will be costed between €2.15 and €2.60. Hasn't been completely decided yet.

- The details of the bus lane work (widening etc.) will come in October.

- From next July it is government policy to buy no more Diesel only buses. The expectation is Diesel-Battery hybrid buses first, with eventual transition to full EV buses as the technology matures.

- Changes to the network will start End of 2019, start 2020.

LeinsterDub

An other genius giving out about a .5 mile of a walk . Which is about 10 minutes of a walk if you're a slow walker