BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

bk

Sounds like Dublin Bus will be getting lots of extra buses!

Dyr

loyatemu wrote: »

what a muppet - there does seem to some confusion about the "trunk route" concept, but he's Labour's candidate for Wicklow basically saying he can't read and understand a consultation document.

What a muppeh lol

BTW can you point me towards the consultation document?

bk

Really impressed by Jarrett Walker as always, he always comes across very convincing and his geometry based approach really makes a lot of sense.

The councillors in general seemed quiet impressed overall, though of course their were the usual moaning about a particular route or stop :rolleyes:

What really came across from the NTA person, was the 2 billion. They really stressed that they now have the money to make the changes that are required to finally fix the bus network, whether that is extra buses, CPO, street widening, interchanges, moved bus stops, etc.

They seem to be planning to move some bus stops closer to junctions and also improve footpaths and street crossings, traffic lights, etc. to help the integration between radial routes and orbital routes.

bk

Bambi wrote: »

BTW can you point me towards the consultation document?

https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/

LionelNashe

Manic Flynn doesn't have any questions, just likes to natter on.

ED E

Grow a pair, ban the taxis ya muppets.

bk

ED E wrote: »

Grow a pair, ban the taxis ya muppets.

At least that is something that can be changed in future as needed. I suspect they are just picking their battles for now. Anyway what is the point without enforcement and automated cameras?

BTW non of the councillors asked about bus lane enforcement or automated cameras :rolleyes:

john boye

LionelNashe wrote: »

Manic Flynn doesn't have any questions, just likes to natter on.

He showed the depth of his knowledge in a debate over the Luas on Prime Time a few months ago.

bk

CircleofLife wrote: »

Not every disabled or elderly person can drive a car, just like not every disabled or elderly person can use a bus. Thus, both systems need to be able to support them to their to the best of their ability. To me the changes made look like they will make things more difficult for those that have issues with standing (both the extra waiting times due to how some routes interlink, and the extra crowds due how some of the routes interlink).

Some places they will make it more difficult, other places they will significantly improve it.

I live relatively close to the city, yet I'm a good 10 minute walk to my closest bus stop. That is fine for me, being young and fit, yet my very large neigbourhood is a relatively mature place with lots of elderly people with basically a 10 minute walk to a bus. Under this plan, my area will now be served by an orbital route, which will put bus stops much closer to them and allow them easier access to buses.

I'm seeing many places with similar stories. So it certainly isn't a case of it being worse for all elderly/disabled people. Many will see a big improvements for them.

Dyr

bk wrote: »

https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/

Multiple documents there, can't see any consultation document

Can see the full report which is broken into multiple documents but we're discussing a local rep who apparently can't read a document so I think it's important we establish what document that is

bk

One important point that I had previously missed, is how the new core "routes" will be scheduled all together.

Take for instance the A route going North on Swords Road. Currently the 11, 13, 16, 41, etc. run up the Swords road and share much of the road as far as Whitehall. But despite sharing the road, they are scheduled as individual routes, so the 13 and 16 might be scheduled to leave at the same time and thus are literally designed to bunch.

Under the BusConnects plan, each core route will be scheduled as one. So the A1, A2, A3, A4 will all be scheduled together, not the leave at the same time, which will hopefully reduce some of the bunching effect.

So you might have an A1 at 12:00, A2 at 12:03, A3 at 12:05, A4 at 12:07, A1 at 12:10, A2 at 12:13, etc. scheduled to leave the city center stop like that.

Makes a lot more sense then the current approach.

bk

Bambi wrote: »

Multiple documents there, can't see any consultation document

Can see the full report which is broken into multiple documents but we're discussing a local rep who apparently can't read a document so I think it's important we establish what document that is

They are all part of the consultation.

Here is the summary document, good starting point:

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1228/busconnects-dublin-network-redesign-summary.pdf

Peregrine

Bambi wrote: »

Multiple documents there, can't see any consultation document

Can see the full report which is broken into multiple documents but we're discussing a local rep who apparently can't read a document so I think it's important we establish what document that is

Let me get this straight.

You're taking issue with the fact that the full report was broken into multiple documents according to chapters? And that this is somehow a barrier for these councillors? Whose own reports such as LAPs, SDZs and DCDPs are also divided into different documents?

Is this what's happening here? Must you take this discussion down this utterly pointless path?

If this is a barrier for our moronic elected officials then I suggest we should be relieving them off their duty — not defending them.

LeinsterDub

bk wrote: »

One important point that I had previously missed, is how the new core "routes" will be scheduled all together.

Take for instance the A route going North on Swords Road. Currently the 11, 13, 16, 41, etc. run up the Swords road and share much of the road as far as Whitehall. But despite sharing the road, they are scheduled as individual routes, so the 13 and 16 might be scheduled to leave at the same time and thus are literally designed to bunch.

Under the BusConnects plan, each core route will be scheduled as one. So the A1, A2, A3, A4 will all be scheduled together, not the leave at the same time, which will hopefully reduce some of the bunching effect.

So you might have an A1 at 12:00, A2 at 12:03, A3 at 12:05, A4 at 12:07, A1 at 12:10, A2 at 12:13, etc. scheduled to leave the city center stop like that.

Makes a lot more sense then the current approach.

I'm no bus controller but I suspect it will be easier for the controller too.
"Hey Jimmy you're catching up with Frank ahead ease off a bit. Sure thing."

As opposed to having 10's of routes merging from all over the place.

"Hey Jimmy you're catching up on Frank ease off a bit. No can do boss am running late on my route. "

devnull

I've heard Jarrett Waker say that if you have positive things to say get them in because if there is a lot of negativity that these things will be watered down and won't change, so for all you who are worried about these proposals are being watered down, you should for sure make sure you submit something since a lot of local politicians and councillors really are fanning the flames of negativity.

LionelNashe

I don't live in Bray but I'm going to make a submission that says 'don't listen to Jack O'Connor'.

Dyr

Peregrine wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

You're taking issue with the fact that the full report was broken into multiple documents according to chapters? And that this is somehow a barrier for these councillors? Whose own reports such as LAPs, SDZs and DCDPs are also divided into different documents?

Is this what's happening here? Must you take this discussion down this utterly pointless path?

If this is a barrier for our moronic elected officials then I suggest we should be relieving them off their duty — not defending them.

Let's get this straight, I ask poster (who calls some fella a muppet because he allegedly hasn't read a document) to point me towards this document but you and some other mod can resist rowing in to respond, even though it was addressed to someone else that seems to be the current scenario

Anyway we've established that this document is actually a report that's been broken into 8 different documents despite the fact it's combined size is only about 200 mbs, without an index, a separate table of contents with no hyperlinking, . So if you wanted to use like a professional would (check index, check table of contents, do a key word search before you even read the thing) you're wasting your time.


In my job if you offered a POS like this up for public consumption you're the one who'd be called a muppet

LeinsterDub

Bambi wrote: »

Let's get this straight, I ask poster (who calls some fella a muppet because he allegedly hasn't read a document) to point me towards this document but you and some other mod can resist rowing in to respond, even though it was addressed to someone else that seems to be the current scenario

Anyway we've established that this document is actually a report that's been broken into 8 different documents despite the fact it's combined size is only about 200 mbs, without an index, a separate table of contents with no hyperlinking, . So if you wanted to use like a professional would (check index, check table of contents, do a key word search before you even read the thing) you're wasting your time.


In my job if you offered a POS like this up for public consumption you're the one who'd be called a muppet

We on here are all just transport nerds and knew the gist of the plan long before this document was published. This guy is a councilor and has a national party to back him. He should had known better long before this document was published

bk

Bambi wrote: »

Let's get this straight, I ask poster (who calls some fella a muppet because he allegedly hasn't read a document) to point me towards this document but you and some other mod can resist rowing in to respond, even though it was addressed to someone else that seems to be the current scenario

Oh, that is your attitude towards me just linking you to the documents to try and help!

BTW It adds up to 400MB including the isochrones. I can understand them breaking it up so people can just jump to the section they are interested in. A 400MB PDF on mobile could be a bit harsh. The site looks designed to show people the big picture, which is probably all most are interested in. You can then download and dig into the specific sections you are interested in.

Most probably just want to look at their particular route without downloading and reading through a big PDF.

It was clear from the DCC presentation that most councillors hadn't even gone further then the high level maps, never mind dig into a 160 page report!

BTW I note that the Metrolink docs consist of over a dozen different separate reports. So this isn't unusual. Come October, when the detailed Bus lanes plans are published, I'm sure there will be dozens of more separate documents, each likely hundreds of pages long.

Non of this is unusual.

BTW I was going to combine the PDFs for you into one doc and throw it up on dropbox, but if this is your attitude to people trying to help you, why bother? You can do it yourself, it isn't hard.

Qrt

Stephen15 wrote: »

The scaremongering is alive have they even read the proposals?

http://wicklownews.net/2018/07/worry-and-outrage-over-ntas-plans-for-the-bray-145-bus-route/

Who in their right mind gets the 145 all the way? I did it once at midday and it took an hour and a half. It's torture.

cgcsb

Good to see solid progress. Other changes can be made later eg adding calpel st to the network. Next up dart expansion.

Qrt

john boye wrote: »

He showed the depth of his knowledge in a debate over the Luas on Prime Time a few months ago.

The one where he called the Luas a train repeatedly?

cherryghost

LionelNashe wrote: »

I don't live in Bray but I'm going to make a submission that says 'don't listen to Jack O'Connor'.

The guys a complete and utter gob****e who clearly can't read clearly.

john boye

Qrt wrote: »

Who in their right mind gets the 145 all the way? I did it once at midday and it took an hour and a half. It's torture.

And it's only been going to Heuston for a few years, it's not like there's a long-held tradition of Bray buses going there!

john boye

Qrt wrote: »

The one where he called the Luas a train repeatedly?

Yeah that's the one I'm sure

bk

I hope this screenshot from the report helps reduce some of the confusion about these core routes. I have to say, bus stop signs like this would look great and really help reduce confusion IMO:

bk

I was thinking about what this sign would look Northbound.

All A Buses to Whitehall
- A1 to Clongriffin
- A2 to Airport
- A3 to DCU
- A4 to Swords

All solid, easy to understand destinations. Really nice IMO.

BTW the more I look at the more I like it. In particular the orbitals are a real game changer. The orbitals that go through my area will really open up whole areas of the city to much easier access.

LionelNashe

The 'O' route will be single-decker because of Macken Street bridge.

bk

LionelNashe wrote: »

The 'O' route will be single-decker because of Macken Street bridge.

With a 7.5 minute frequency, that would seem to be ok. Perhaps a good candidate to trial full EV single decker buses.

OldMrBrennan83

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