BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

XPS_Zero

Peregrine wrote: »

It took me a while to figure out that you were being sarcastic. Sadly, I could well imagine some people saying that.

Thats the key to effective satire loike thats what they taught us in the zaga and the rock, k bro?

Dude I put effort into it loike I was going for a number of different voices in a tableu of different complaints from different types of people before just being my post-secondary school converted D4 self.

Essentially the biggest complaint though, seriously, that there seems to be is "but it doens't personally bend over backwards to accomidate ME myself, and the world revovles around ME!"

shanec1928

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

I'm finding the "isochrone" maps very confusing.

Taking Adamstown as an example I'm familiar with, and focusing on a journey to the city centre, it shows at "12pm on a weekday" not even getting out of Lucan in 30 minutes, making it to Palmerstown in 45 minutes and reaching the city centre by 60 minutes.

Right now the estimated off-peak journey time on the timetable for the 25b from Adamstown is 41 minutes to O'Connell and 51 minutes to Merrion Square. I think that's fantasy land unless nobody gets on or off the bus, but would say 50 minutes to O'Connell Street at 12pm on a weekday is true. Usually 35 minutes to Palmerstown.

The 25b will become the C2 route and there appears to be no changes to the route proposed from Adamstown to city centre. So why will the expected journey time be even worse under the new plan? What am I missing?

Thats what it looks like with the loss of the 25d too.

XPS_Zero

I don't suppose there is anything besides the app to allow you to get used to this#?

They should develop a BETA APP so we can see what our normal journeys would look like with the new system, compare to present and then make suggestions if we see blind spots since they can't thik of everything

LeinsterDub

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I don't suppose there is anything besides the app to allow you to get used to this#?

They should develop a BETA APP so we can see what our normal journeys would look like with the new system, compare to present and then make suggestions if we see blind spots since they can't thik of everything

The public consultation hasn't even started. How could there be an app?

Peregrine

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

I'm finding the "isochrone" maps very confusing.

Taking Adamstown as an example I'm familiar with, and focusing on a journey to the city centre, it shows at "12pm on a weekday" not even getting out of Lucan in 30 minutes, making it to Palmerstown in 45 minutes and reaching the city centre by 60 minutes.

Right now the estimated off-peak journey time on the timetable for the 25b from Adamstown is 41 minutes to O'Connell and 51 minutes to Merrion Square. I think that's fantasy land unless nobody gets on or off the bus, but would say 50 minutes to O'Connell Street at 12pm on a weekday is true. Usually 35 minutes to Palmerstown.

The 25b will become the C2 route and there appears to be no changes to the route proposed from Adamstown to city centre. So why will the expected journey time be even worse under the new plan? What am I missing?

shanec1928 wrote: »

Thats what it looks like with the loss of the 25d too.

Frequency. You're missing frequency. You're comparing just the travel time you know with travel time + waiting time in the isochrone.

If you decided to go to the city centre right now, it's going to take a lot longer to get there if the bus is every 30 minutes as opposed to every 10 minutes. In the case of the 25b/d to C1/2, the frequency is only marginally better but you're still comparing apples and slightly different apples!

The isochrones are only an appendix. Have a read of the report. Chapter 8 describes what the isochrones are.

Isochrone visualizations. Isochrones are a method of mapping travel time, which show the total area one could reach in a given travel time from a particular starting point. New routes or enhanced frequencies can expand the reach of the isochrone to new corridors, indicating that new areas and new destinations can be reached in that travel time in the new network.

These analyses have been conducted using the open-source routing software OpenTripPlanner. For the Existing and Proposed networks, we constructed a representation of the frequencies and travel times of each route in the GTFS format. We then ran travel time queries for points all over Dublin, which return isochrone shapes for each location and each travel time budget.

All the analyses presented here describe frequencies for the midday time period, approximately 10:00 to 14:00. This is a useful time period to examine because it takes into account the lowest possible frequencies that one is likely to encounter in the daytime hours.

cgcsb

In my opinion all buses should operate from 05:00 to 00:00 Mon-Sat and the 5 hour period should see a bus every 20 mins on all the spines A-G and the same on the O route. Build taxi ranks near the end of the spines if people want to continue their journey into the suburbs by taxi. The taxi congestion in Dublin City Centre between 00:00 and 05:00 is chronic most nights of the week. We should also be doing car-free Sundays once a month like in Paris.

ThunbergsAreGo

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree seems like a shambles, removing the one direct connection from Donabate to the city as an example.

Increasing population, reduced service

cgcsb

naughtb4 wrote: »

I agree seems like a shambles, removing the one direct connection from Donabate to the city as an example.

Increasing population, reduced service

Service levels in Donebate will be increased.

ThunbergsAreGo

cgcsb wrote: »

Service levels in Donebate will be increased.

To Swords/Clongriffen

There will be 0 direct buses to town where the majority of people commute to on a daily basis

L1011

naughtb4 wrote: »

To Swords/Clongriffen

There will be 0 direct buses to town where the majority of people commute to on a daily basis

And there'll be faster buses at high frequency from Swords

People have to get used to changing bus.

ThunbergsAreGo

L1011 wrote: »

And there'll be faster buses at high frequency from Swords

People have to get used to changing bus.

It more than doubles the journey time

Peregrine

naughtb4 wrote: »

I agree seems like a shambles, removing the one direct connection from Donabate to the city as an example.

Increasing population, reduced service

When you say the one direct connection, are you literally talking about the one bus? The 33d that leaves Portrane at 7:20 and returns from Custom House Quay at 17:45? That's your complaint? Shambles, really? Reduced service?

On the contrary, service to Donabate is increasing. Instead of the once daily 33d, you retain the 40 min frequency of the 33b to Swords and gain 20-26min frequency between the peak hours of 7:00-9:00 and 15:00-18:00. With the wider bus journey time improvement measures proposed under BusConnects, the journey from Swords to the city centre should be quicker. The people of Donabate are currently well used to connecting buses at Swords. I would think that most of them wouldn't mind getting more buses from Donabate to Swords everyday.

Then there's also the train — a luxury most places in Dublin do not have. We have to rely on buses only. The train will bring you to Connolly in 20-30 mins. From there, you will have improved connectivity through routes such as the O which follows an inner orbital route and runs every 7.5 mins.

Shambles? Reduced service? Really? Really?

Peregrine

naughtb4 wrote: »

To Swords/Clongriffen

There will be 0 direct buses to town where the majority of people commute to on a daily basis

Yeah, only 26 direct trains and around 30 connecting buses.

ThunbergsAreGo

Peregrine wrote: »

Yeah, only 26 direct trains and around 30 connecting buses.

For a town with a proposed population of 18,000+

ThunbergsAreGo

Are they planning on removing buses entirely from the Port Tunnel?

Cannot see any mention on it on any of the maps

Peregrine

naughtb4 wrote: »

For a town with a proposed population of 18,000+

And this one bus makes all the difference?

2016 population is 7443. Are you talking about 2040? If you read the rest of that report, you'll find that DART to Drogheda is to be implemented by 2027. And bus frequencies can also be increased with the more efficient network and improved bus infrastructure proposed under BusConnects. Whereas, currently, there's little scope for increasing frequencies across the board. So, without this, you'd be stuck with your 2040 population of 18,000 or whatever and maybe 2 direct buses to the city centre from Donabate. That's some nice planning that you're proposing.

You don't get to cherry pick a projected population from a report and a 7:20AM bus and consider them in isolation.

ThunbergsAreGo

Peregrine wrote: »

And this one bus makes all the difference?

2016 population is 7443. Are you talking about 2040? If you read the rest of that report, you'll find that DART to Drogheda is to be implemented by 2027. And bus frequencies can also be increased with the more efficient network and improved bus infrastructure proposed under BusConnects. Whereas, currently, there's little scope for increasing frequencies across the board. So, without this, you'd be stuck with your 2040 population of 18,000 or whatever and maybe 2 direct buses to the city centre from Donabate. That's some nice planning that you're proposing.

You don't get to cherry pick a projected population from a report and a 7:20AM bus and consider them in isolation.

Portane is included as well as on the peninsula,and 3.5k houses currently planned for but sure that's a side point.

cgcsb

naughtb4 wrote: »

To Swords/Clongriffen

There will be 0 direct buses to town where the majority of people commute to on a daily basis

You will get to the City Centre FASTER by connecting at Swords or through your 20 minute frequency DART service. You'll also be able to leave at much more frequent intervals, midday buses will be every 40 mins at least. The 33b and d offer only sporadic service.

Peregrine

naughtb4 wrote: »

Portane is included as well as on the peninsula,and 3.5k houses currently planned for but sure that's a side point.

Included in what?

It really is a side point. Your one 7:20 AM bus from Portrane has very little to do with the projected Project Ireland 2040 population. That one bus isn't going to make a difference and I told you that DART is to be expanded to Donabate and beyond to accommodate that population growth with more rapid transit according to that same report along with a total increase in bus services with potential to increase further. And that you cannot add more direct buses to the city centre from everywhere because it's getting physically impossible and that this rethink and redesign is necessary to accommodate that population growth in Donabate you referred to and all areas in the Greater Dublin Area.

Of course it was a side point in the context of your one bus. And I've addressed your side point directly. You have to stop focusing on one or two things and look at the big picture.

Read the full report. It will help.

L1011

naughtb4 wrote: »

It more than doubles the journey time

It won't.

OldMrBrennan83

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Peregrine

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You really need to read the report before spreading misinformation that's addressed in the report.

L1011

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You still haven't read the report, have you?

Please, please, please actually read it - not just the map with Dunboyne on it - as you are making extremely silly statements.

kerplun k

Peregrine wrote: »

You really need to read the report before spreading misinformation that's addressed in the report.

I second this. A lot of the people complaining haven’t read all the documentation, I include myself in this as well. I was confused and underwhelmed by the report a few weeks back, but once you see the complete picture it’s very impressive, and there really is no argument against it. Between the corridors, network redesign, improved frequency, etc, this really stands a chance of becoming one of the best modes of transport, and one that would rival most big city Metro services.

shanec1928

Peregrine wrote: »

Frequency. You're missing frequency. You're comparing just the travel time you know with travel time + waiting time in the isochrone.

If you decided to go to the city centre right now, it's going to take a lot longer to get there if the bus is every 30 minutes as opposed to every 10 minutes. In the case of the 25b/d to C1/2, the frequency is only marginally better but you're still comparing apples and slightly different apples!

The isochrones are only an appendix. Have a read of the report. Chapter 8 describes what the isochrones are.

do you take this journey? the vast bulk of time on this journey is going through all the estates and onto the n4 the d skips this and unless im missing something the frequency is staying the same?https://imgur.com/a/Pae5IVw

Also how will the c1\2 spine be improved when the bottle neck for that will be the junction onto the m50?

L1011

Local "independent" (wasn't selected by FF, left, ran, got in and frequently turns up at events as if he is still FF) is moaning in the local papers that "they didn't listen to the submissions we made".

Submissions made to Dublin Bus. Years ago.

Numbskulls abound...

StreetLight

shanec1928 wrote: »

Also how will the c1\2 spine be improved when the bottle neck for that will be the junction onto the m50?

The parallel Bus Corridors project plans for continuous bus lanes through the M50 junction:

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1192/bus-connects-cbc-route-maps-web_06.pdf

shanec1928

StreetLight wrote: »

The parallel Bus Corridors project plans for continuous bus lanes through the M50 junction:

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1192/bus-connects-cbc-route-maps-web_06.pdf

unless im mistaken the solution is to make a junction that is already a bottlekneck and reduce it down to one lane inbound?

dashcamdanny

Will taxis be allowed in these new bus lanes?

Stephen15

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Will taxis be allowed in these new bus lanes?

Yes they will