BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

dashcamdanny · 12-07-2018 11:19am

So business as usual then Gridlock.

MJohnston · 12-07-2018 11:26am

shanec1928 wrote: »

unless im mistaken the solution is to make a junction that is already a bottlekneck and reduce it down to one lane inbound?

The N4/M50 junction is not a bottleneck at all. The Kennelsfort Rd and Lucan Road traffic light junctions are, however, but they need to be closed up anyway.

bk · 12-07-2018 11:27am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes they will

dashcamdanny wrote: »

So business as usual then Gridlock.

Though in the core city center and perhaps some other pinch points I would expect more bus only bus gates.

CatInABox · 12-07-2018 11:51am

The BusConnects survey is up.

Have your say here:

https://www.research.net/r/BusConnects

BonnieSituation · 12-07-2018 12:13pm

MJohnston wrote: »

The N4/M50 junction is not a bottleneck at all. The Kennelsfort Rd and Lucan Road traffic light junction are, however, but they need to be closed up anyway.

I'd take getting rid of the Oval/Old Lucan Road junction first. That should see the whole road open up at a pace.

---

One thing I'm disappointed by is how the C1 and C2 continue through Foxborough and yet the "local connecting" service uses the OuterRing Road (Penny Hill to Foxborough/Griffeen section). Surely that should be switched if frequency is the priority. Castle Road is a mare in the mornings and causes serious delays to all services

Defo part of my submission to be made.

I've been barracking about getting the 25A and B to use the outer ring like this for years.

r93kaey5p2izun · 12-07-2018 1:03pm

I wholeheartedly agree about taking the C1/C2 out of Foxborough. It's a disgrace that the 25a/b currebtly have to squeeze through that narrow road and diwn the old lane - it's the only estate the buses actually go through and there's absolutely no need for it. But there was a proposal to take one of them out of Foxborough a few years ago and there was fierce opposition from locals with the support of politicians (Joanna Tuffy in particular iirc) so it was abandoned. That would be the biggest improvement to the route. I will be putting that to them also.

I still don't get why the isochrone says the journey time for C1/2 wil be longer than it currently is. I understand the frequency will be (marginally) better, and that's nice but that's not my question. What do they think is going to happen to make an already long route even longer?I have read the full report and I'm supportive of the planned changes overall.

bk · 12-07-2018 1:13pm

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

I still don't get why the isochrone says the journey time for C1/2 wil be longer than it currently is. I understand the frequency will be (marginally) better, and that's nice but that's not my question. What do they think is going to happen to make an already long route even longer?I have read the full report and I'm supportive of the planned changes overall.

The isochrone's aren't just the bus journey time, but also include the time waiting for the bus and the time to walk to the bus.

It is more of and a to b overall journey time from your front door to your destination, rather then the journey time of the bus.

bk · 12-07-2018 1:14pm

CatInABox wrote: »

The BusConnects survey is up.

Have your say here:

https://www.research.net/r/BusConnects

Thanks, I've done my bit

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2018 1:22pm

This post has been deleted.

MJohnston · 12-07-2018 1:58pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I mean, given that you've mostly been posting rather selfish complaints, I would hope not, but if you supplied anything more constructive, I'm sure they'll listen to that kind of thing.

Yer Da sells Avon · 12-07-2018 1:58pm

CatInABox wrote: »

The BusConnects survey is up.

Have your say here:

https://www.research.net/r/BusConnects

I've essentially begged them to ignore political lobbying and NIMBYism (or IMBYism) and just implement the damn thing, watering it down as little as possible.

MJohnston · 12-07-2018 2:02pm

I also hope Jarrett Walker will be heavily involved with the consultation process and have a hand in educating the decision makers.

Zebra3 · 12-07-2018 2:06pm

CatInABox wrote: »

The BusConnects survey is up.

Have your say here:

https://www.research.net/r/BusConnects

Done as well.

Do more than just ticking the boxes, make sure you write your points out too!!

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2018 2:16pm

This post has been deleted.

MJohnston · 12-07-2018 2:44pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Just because a few people have a selfish complaint doesn't make it any less selfish!

And no, it's far from set in stone, I'd imagine nobody supporting this plan is under any illusion that it will survive without being messed with. Look at how the Metrolink consultation has already changed that project in big ways. Hopefully it won't be ruined.

OldMrBrennan83 · 12-07-2018 2:56pm

This post has been deleted.

MJohnston · 12-07-2018 3:05pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Because, and this is the really important bit, you can very objectively measure the number of people who will be positively impacted by BusConnects, and compared that to those who will be negatively impacted, or not impacted at all.

In fact, this is exactly what the isochromes display.

There's no opinion needed there, it's possible to objectively measure.

CatInABox · 12-07-2018 3:14pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm sure that every complaint and comment will be taken on their individual merits.

However, this redesign is hoping to increase ridership by increasing frequency and easy interchanges. A bus service that goes direct once every 2 hours or so just isn't going to compete with a bus service that goes every 20 minutes or so, dropping passengers at an easy interchange on a core route with direct buses going every 4 minutes or so.

The potential number of passengers on each service is vastly different in favour of the two bus service.

cgcsb · 12-07-2018 4:27pm

I'm far more concerned by the infrastructure than the proposed routes. And I think that's been overlooked by the media/general public in favour of silly things like "the 46a is gone!!". Afterall none of this works without the infrastructure and the City Centre measures are a lot more crucial than buying up gardens in Terenure.

Several controversial things have to happen, some of which DCC has tried and failed to implement:

-Car ban on North Quays
-College Green Plaza
-2 way bus gate on Parliament St
-Car ban on George's Street
-New bus lanes all over the place
-Road widening on the North Circular, incl removal of historic trees
-Traffic light priority for buses
-Enforcement cameras(coupled with punitive and dissuasive fines)
-removal of onstreet parking taxi ranks and loading bays

Even after all that I think we'll still be short of infrastructure, Capel St needs to be converted into a 2 way bus only street to take the pressure off O'Connell St. There needs to be a taxi ban on the main trunk routes. There needs to be 24 hour service on the trunk routes. Even still the A route will be creaking on day one because ultimately that corridor requires a metro service, which will be another 7 years coming.

Dyr · 12-07-2018 4:34pm

Anyone wondering why they didn't put the actual figure for the services with over 20 minute frequencies on their respective tiles unlike the frequent services? Almost like they're hoping you won't notice?

Say it ain't so Jarret, say it ain't so :pac:

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1256/proposed-service-hours-and-frequencies.pdf

Peregrine · 12-07-2018 4:41pm

Bambi wrote: »

Anyone wondering why they didn't put the actual figure for the services with over 20 minute frequencies on their respective tiles unlike the frequent services? Almost like they're hoping you won't notice?

Say it ain't so Jarret, say it ain't so :pac:

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1256/proposed-service-hours-and-frequencies.pdf

It's very difficult for someone to look at a table of frequencies, see a colour and go "Ah, okay, that looks great" without reading the legend to see what the colour means. I really don't know who could possibly be caught out by that.

You're really clutching at straws but I'm glad you're reading more than just one map in the report now.

Peregrine · 12-07-2018 4:49pm

Bambi wrote: »

Anyone wondering why they didn't put the actual figure for the services with over 20 minute frequencies on their respective tiles unlike the frequent services? Almost like they're hoping you won't notice?

Say it ain't so Jarret, say it ain't so :pac:

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1256/proposed-service-hours-and-frequencies.pdf

The reds all represent a range of frequencies and, as they're core routes, it's possible to say now if it's 10 or 15 mins for light red or 6 or 8 mins for the darker red or 5 or 3 mins for the crimson colour. So they have the actual numbers on them. The greens and blue only represent one number. No need to write it into the box. The lower frequency purple routes is probably a range of 20-26 that will be decided for each route later. They're not spine routes.

Read the report, think and ask questions.

Don't just go straight into accusing mode. It's very unbecoming.

Dyr · 12-07-2018 4:50pm

Peregrine wrote: »

It's very difficult for someone to look at a table of frequencies, see a colour and go "Ah, okay, that looks great" without reading the legend to see what the colour means. I really don't know who could possibly be caught out by that..

By that logic you'd leave all the tiles blank and just rely on the key. Consistency is the secret to good layout after all.

I'm open to the possibility that you're a clever chap, try to figure out why only certain tiles are blank

CatInABox · 12-07-2018 4:50pm

Bambi wrote: »

Anyone wondering why they didn't put the actual figure for the services with over 20 minute frequencies on their respective tiles unlike the frequent services? Almost like they're hoping you won't notice?

Say it ain't so Jarret, say it ain't so :pac:

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1256/proposed-service-hours-and-frequencies.pdf

They put a legend up the top, so it's not like they're hiding it, and in fact explain the exact point that you're raising.

The filled in boxes are for: "Precise intended frequency is indicated for service operating every 15 minutes or better"

Peregrine · 12-07-2018 4:53pm

Bambi wrote: »

I'm open to the possibility that you're a clever chap, try to figure out why only certain tiles are blank

See above. It only took an open mind to figure it out. No cleverness required.

Dyr · 12-07-2018 5:03pm

Neither of those explanations stand up chaps

they've managed to represent each tile with a number on the high frequency routes
10-15 is a range and it's represented as 10-13-15 on the red tile.
20-26 is also range yet it has no numbers on the tile unlike the higher frequencies, odd.
30, 40, 60 are not ranges yet the tiles remain unnumbered even though the layout's own logic would insist on consistency, otherwise none of the tiles need figures.

I suppose you could tie yourself up and contrive a method to it rather than just admit Jarret and the boys were being a bit cute.

CatInABox · 12-07-2018 5:50pm

Bambi wrote: »

Neither of those explanations stand up chaps

they've managed to represent each tile with a number on the high frequency routes
10-15 is a range and it's represented as 10-13-15 on the red tile.
20-26 is also range yet it has no numbers on the tile unlike the higher frequencies, odd.
30, 40, 60 are not ranges yet the tiles remain unnumbered even though the layout's own logic would insist on consistency, otherwise none of the tiles need figures.

I suppose you could tie yourself up and contrive a method to it rather than just admit Jarret and the boys were being a bit cute.

I think you're reading way more into it than neccessary. Most likely, it's because it's more important to get across the point of the most frequent services than the less frequent. If you want though, I can ask Jarrett Walker on twitter, he seems to be quite responsive.