BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

LionelNashe · 19-07-2018 2:08pm

jd wrote: »

Another Public Rep misunderstands Bus Connects. Most of Swords ids probably leafleted with misinformation

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1018083183579918336

Jarret, God help him, still banging on about 'reading the legend of the maps' to make things clear. He's too close to it to see that the legend doesn't really make it that clear. There wouldn't be so many people making the same initial mistake if it was as clear as he thinks. Having said that, the TDs and others who didn't understand it within half an hour or so of studying the website and documents have no excuse.

cgcsb · 19-07-2018 2:31pm

A2000 wrote: »

Such rubbish. People go out all the time on tripods and cannot push a trolley as well. People are so dissmissive of tge elderly and infirm as if they dont count in plans for the future as they are going to die anyway. The old folks were given bus passes and should have the means to use them. Nobody mentioned no distance. Please read posts properly before posting ageist comments like that. Old people matter too

How on earth are they currently carrying shopping on tripods? Yes I was responding the point that some people can walk 'no distance at all'. I think the elderly and infirm are more often used as pawns by the car lobby and anti-progress elements than they areby people seeking to improve services for everyone.

jd · 19-07-2018 2:32pm

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

I see no evidence that's what she thinks? Those living up Captain's Hill in Leixlip and in Dodsboro in Lucan are losing a direct service including peak Xpresso departures.

Unfortunately transcripts aren't yet up on Oireachtais site.
NTA after her contribution clarify C3 and 4 go into town without a bus change

cgcsb · 19-07-2018 2:34pm

A2000 wrote: »

If you read the previous posts you would see that 2 old folks complexes are losing thier service snd so will be unable to connect to ANYWHERE. no point in having connections that cant be reached. They have a service now but wont after bus connects so how is this an improvement? Taking a service away after 70 years? The grey vote is very important to the government so we will see. A lot of politicians are reading the plans wrong. Cant wait to see what happens when the realise the impact for some.

they're not losing their service, the local bus stop will be 300m away from it's current location

Dyr · 19-07-2018 2:38pm

LionelNashe wrote: »

Jarret, God help him, still banging on about 'reading the legend of the maps' to make things clear. He's too close to it to see that the legend doesn't really make it that clear. There wouldn't be so many people making the same initial mistake if it was as clear as he thinks. Having said that, the TDs and others who didn't understand it within half an hour or so of studying the website and documents have no excuse.

TBH this Walker character comes across as a bit of a diva You'd wonder did his company but boots on the ground in Dublin to any degree.

cgcsb · 19-07-2018 2:38pm

LionelNashe wrote: »

Jarret, God help him, still banging on about 'reading the legend of the maps' to make things clear. He's too close to it to see that the legend doesn't really make it that clear. There wouldn't be so many people making the same initial mistake if it was as clear as he thinks. Having said that, the TDs and others who didn't understand it within half an hour or so of studying the website and documents have no excuse.

The problem is educational, outside the scope of a transport project.

n!ghtmancometh · 19-07-2018 3:12pm

Unveiling the plan in multiple crappy PDF maps that aren't the clearest to read is a problem of Walker's own making. An app or interactive website with a map and route planner which would make the new routes clearer to interpret would have been ideal.

plodder · 19-07-2018 3:55pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Unveiling the plan in multiple crappy PDF maps that aren't the clearest to read is a problem of Walker's own making. An app or interactive website with a map and route planner which would make the new routes clearer to interpret would have been ideal.

There should have been a single PDF with all the text and maps together. That's how I like to read these things, not by having to keep going back to a flashy website to get each bit separately.

devnull · 19-07-2018 3:58pm

plodder wrote: »

There should have been a single PDF with all the text and maps together. That's how I like to read these things, not by having to keep going back to a flashy website to get each bit separately.

And can you imagine the file size if there was?

CatInABox · 19-07-2018 4:05pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Unveiling the plan in multiple crappy PDF maps that aren't the clearest to read is a problem of Walker's own making. An app or interactive website with a map and route planner which would make the new routes clearer to interpret would have been ideal.

The app (or tool, the NTA weren't clear on this point) is launching in the next few days apparently.

Bray Head · 19-07-2018 4:11pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Unveiling the plan in multiple crappy PDF maps that aren't the clearest to read is a problem of Walker's own making. An app or interactive website with a map and route planner which would make the new routes clearer to interpret would have been ideal.

That's unfair. There is a wealth of material on the website about the plans to a very detailed level.

n!ghtmancometh · 19-07-2018 4:17pm

Bray Head wrote: »

That's unfair. There is a wealth of material on the website about the plans to a very detailed level.

Not good enough in my opinion. I've an interest in public transport and I found it a pain. Imagine someone who has no interest and just quickly wants to find out how the changes effect their commute or whatever.

A2000 · 19-07-2018 4:21pm

cgcsb wrote: »

they're not losing their service, the local bus stop will be 300m away from it's current location[/QUOT

If you cant get to the stop then you have lost the service. Particularly as the change is senseless. As i said i work with these people and its amazing what they can carry on a tripod. Because they have to. Have been chatting about these posts with them todsy and they said its obvious that nobody understands how important the bus in it current form is to them in thier everyday life. Or what it means to be elderly. 300 meters may as well be 300 miles for some.

LeinsterDub · 19-07-2018 4:43pm

cgcsb wrote: »

they're not losing their service, the local bus stop will be 300m away from it's current location[/QUOT

If you cant get to the stop then you have lost the service. Particularly as the change is senseless. As i said i work with these people and its amazing what they can carry on a tripod. Because they have to. Have been chatting about these posts with them todsy and they said its obvious that nobody understands how important the bus in it current form is to them in thier everyday life. Or what it means to be elderly. 300 meters may as well be 300 miles for some.

In which case you should be lobbying for dial a bus type service.

Dyr · 19-07-2018 4:45pm

devnull wrote: »

And can you imagine the file size if there was?

About 20-30 mbs if you exclude the isochrone maps, which is very reasonable

plodder · 19-07-2018 4:49pm

devnull wrote: »

And can you imagine the file size if there was?

You have to download the same amount of data either way. And I just mean as an option.

_Kaiser_ · 19-07-2018 8:30pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In which case you should be lobbying for dial a bus type service.

This highlights a significant issue on this thread IMO

The enthusiasts are all for this plan and are entirely dismissive of those who have concerns, who it may not suit or who will lose out, or who think that the rollout of the proposal hasn't been the best - FFS a dig was made about people's (TD's) literacy earlier!

It seems that some just want their fancy network and bus lanes regardless of the impact or the concerns of others and it's THAT attitude that will completely undermine the idea IMO

There's a saying that "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" and it definitely applies here. The NTA/this Jarret guy/WHOEVER need to start improving their sales pitch dramatically (RTFM is not an answer!) if they want to win people over and assuage fears and resistance to the changes.

A2000 · 19-07-2018 9:19pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In which case you should be lobbying for dial a bus type service.

They had a dial a free taxi service until recently. It was cancelled leaving them even more dependent on the bus

Qrt · 19-07-2018 10:19pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

FFS a dig was made about people's (TD's) literacy earlier!

The number of public representatives who have misled their constituents on the plans must be hitting double digits at this stage so I wouldn't deem that to be much of a dig.

Qrt · 19-07-2018 10:43pm

Does anybody have any idea where the notion of "28 seater buses" being used is coming from? I highly doubt the NTA have any plans to suddenly change half their fleet...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/some-major-bus-routes-will-be-worse-off-under-2bn-reform-plan-tds-warn-1.3569469?mode=amp

devnull · 19-07-2018 10:52pm

Qrt wrote: »

Does anybody have any idea where the notion of "28 seater buses" being used is coming from? I highly doubt the NTA have any plans to suddenly change half their fleet...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/some-major-bus-routes-will-be-worse-off-under-2bn-reform-plan-tds-warn-1.3569469?mode=amp

It's called scaremongering.

The Wright Streetlite single decker that the NTA are ordering at it's shortest 8.8m length can be ordered with a configuration that seats only 28 passengers.

However it is also available in sizes up to 11.5m and seating 45 passengers and there is nothing to suggest that the NTA will be going for the shortest version with such a low capacity.

LeinsterDub · 19-07-2018 10:53pm

A2000 wrote: »

They had a dial a free taxi service until recently. It was cancelled leaving them even more dependent on the bus

Who did? I've never heard of this service

LeinsterDub · 19-07-2018 10:54pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The NTA/this Jarret guy/WHOEVER need to start improving their sales pitch dramatically (RTFM is not an answer!) if they want to win people over and assuage fears and resistance to the changes.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink

Kfagan10 · 19-07-2018 10:56pm

Qrt wrote: »

Does anybody have any idea where the notion of "28 seater buses" being used is coming from? I highly doubt the NTA have any plans to suddenly change half their fleet...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/some-major-bus-routes-will-be-worse-off-under-2bn-reform-plan-tds-warn-1.3569469?mode=amp

It came from the NTA officials in front of the JOC who said single deckers would have to be run on the proposed O Route around town because of bridge heights.

They did also say these buses had much more standing room/wheelchair spaces/buggy spaces than current vehicles.

Cookie_Monster · 19-07-2018 10:57pm

A2000 wrote: »

. Or what it means to be elderly. 300 meters may as well be 300 miles for some.

So how do these people currently walk from their rooms to the bus, and what do they do when they get off the bus at their destination, just stand around and not walk anywhere?

300m is not a large distance by any stretch of the imagination, anyone currently capable of getting on a bus and going to and doing what they do now will be able to manage it. To suggest otherwise is just insulting to those people

devnull · 19-07-2018 10:59pm

Kfagan10 wrote: »

It came from the NTA officials in front of the JOC who said single deckers would have to be run on the proposed O Route around town because of bridge heights.

They did also say these buses had much more standing room/wheelchair spaces/buggy spaces than current vehicles.

Did they say they were running single deckers or specifically mention 28 seat single deckers?

Charles Babbage · 20-07-2018 12:05am

devnull wrote: »

And can you imagine the file size if there was?

Why should vector maps in a PDF be all that big? Are you suggesting he was going to scan them?

CatInABox · 20-07-2018 12:11am

devnull wrote: »

Did they say they were running single deckers or specifically mention 28 seat single deckers?

I have to admit, I listened to the answer, but not sure if I fully recall it now.

As far as I can remember, the NTA answered that single decker, 28 seat buses would be brought in for the O route, but they are the same length as the current double decker buses, so rather than more seats, they've focused on more standing area, more buggy area, more wheel chair area.

I believe the person said that the capacity would be 50 to 60 to 70 (not trying to be vague, I remember him giving those three figures, or there abouts).

Any problems with capacity on a single bus would be mitigated by there being another along a few minutes later.

LionelNashe · 20-07-2018 12:50am

CatInABox wrote: »

I have to admit, I listened to the answer, but not sure if I fully recall it now.

As far as I can remember, the NTA answered that single decker, 28 seat buses would be brought in for the O route, but they are the same length as the current double decker buses, so rather than more seats, they've focused on more standing area, more buggy area, more wheel chair area.

I believe the person said that the capacity would be 50 to 60 to 70 (not trying to be vague, I remember him giving those three figures, or there abouts).

Any problems with capacity on a single bus would be mitigated by there being another along a few minutes later.

I suppose a higher proportion of passengers would be able to stand on a short-distance route like the O-routes, so it makes sense to have a few less seats and be able to fit more people/wheelchairs/buggies/(suitcases even?).

marno21 · 20-07-2018 1:22am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

There's a saying that "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" and it definitely applies here. The NTA/this Jarret guy/WHOEVER need to start improving their sales pitch dramatically (RTFM is not an answer!) if they want to win people over and assuage fears and resistance to the changes.

Sorry now but all the information available is on the website. If people have concerns they can check them out there, there's nothing being hidden from view.

The NTA don't have a mandate to breastfeed every person with all information about what's changing. The information is on the site and they are free to go along to the public consultations (if their current bus service permits them to do so, that is).

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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