BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Stephen15

SG317 wrote: »

Ah but Shane Ross gave Belarmine Stepaside (his constituency) two bus routes one direct into town and x3 frequency boost. Surprised that he didn't keep the 84, seemed to be a fan of it when he got on a bus for the first time.

You do realise the 47 used to be a feeder to the N11 QBC that ran every every 20 mins between Belarmine and Donnybrook Depot before Network Direct and long before Shane Ross was minister for transport. The 84 doesn't serve Stepaside or go into town.

r93kaey5p2izun

Very interesting, thank you! I sincerely wish these bogeys would make an appearance on the 25a which must be the most unreliable bus service in existence. Multiple buses a day don't run for "operational reasons" and many more start/end on the quays instead of Merrion Square missing a large chunk of the route. I don't know how the people of Lucan South/Esker/Griffeen aren't up in arms over the shoddy service they put up with (and they're in for further cuts to their weekend service in this plan). Are these bogeys reserved for more prestige high profile routes like the 46a and the 7?

ITV2

SG317 wrote: »

Ah but Shane Ross gave Belarmine Stepaside (his constituency) two bus routes one direct into town and x3 frequency boost. Surprised that he didn't keep the 84, seemed to be a fan of it when he got on a bus for the first time.

you mean the 44, sure he loves the 44 bus so he told me.. only ever saw him once on it.

Stephen15

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

I don't know how the people of Lucan South/Esker/Griffeen aren't up in arms over the shoddy service they put up with (and they're in for further cuts to their weekend service in this plan). Are these bogeys reserved for more prestige high profile routes like the 46a and the 7?

Where was it mentioned that the areas which you mentioned will have a reduced weekend service? Plan aims to introduce an increased weekend service on all routes. Where are you getting this complete false information from?

Also there are no higher prestige routes. The 46a just runs than other routes as it has a QBC for most of it's route and doesn't deviate off it to serve villages and estates.

L1011

Celbridge will have its weekend service cut to bits at least, 30 min clockface back to hourly at times. I wonder if some of the routes were compared against older timetables

r93kaey5p2izun

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1256/proposed-service-hours-and-frequencies.pdf

Currently the 25a and 25b are every 30 minutes 7 days per week (some extra peak services in addition to this). This shows that from Saturday evening and all day Sunday they will be reduced to every 40 minutes then every 60 minutes as the C1 and C2.

Personally I think it's naive to think routes like the 46a aren't treated as higher value. It's very obvious as a frequent user.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Where was it mentioned that the areas which you mentioned will have a reduced weekend service? Plan aims to introduce an increased weekend service on all routes. Where are you getting this complete false information from?

Also there are no higher prestige routes. The 46a just runs than other routes as it has a QBC for most of it's route and doesn't deviate off it to serve villages and estates.

Stephen15

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

Personally I think it's naive to think routes like the 46a aren't treated as higher value. It's very obvious as a frequent user.

The reason the 46a and 145 are better than other routes is because they have longer stretches of QBC than other routes meaning they don't get held in traffic as much as others. Personally I think the likes of the 46a should be a benchmark for other routes and more bus priority.

MJohnston

The thing that I'll say about the Stepaside/Belarmine changes - I think the area is probably one of the fastest growing, highest density residential areas in Dublin? And large parts of it are up to 2km away from the Green Line stops (there's a lot of fairly hilly terrain in this area too iirc).

That said, I don't really understand the value of the new 12 route heading into the city - imo it should be simply a feeder bus to Sandyford Luas (and hopefully future Metro) stop.

Stephen15

MJohnston wrote: »

The thing that I'll say about the Stepaside/Belarmine changes - I think the area is probably one of the fastest growing, highest density residential areas in Dublin? And large parts of it are up to 2km away from the Green Line stops (there's a lot of fairly hilly terrain in this area too iirc).

That said, I don't really understand the value of the new 12 route heading into the city - imo it should be simply a feeder bus to Sandyford Luas (and hopefully future Metro) stop.

Yes but I suppose the gap left from the 44/61 between Dundrum and the CC has to be filled in parts of Dundrum, Milltown and Ranelagh which are a bit away from the Luas line.

r93kaey5p2izun

Stephen15 wrote: »

The reason the 46a and 145 are better than other routes is because they have longer stretches of QBC than other routes meaning they don't get held in traffic as much as others. Personally I think the likes of the 46a should be a benchmark for other routes and more bus priority.

The QBC is obviously a great benefit but they're also far more frequent and far more reliable in terms of adequate drivers actually rostered for buses and absences covered quicker. "Operational issues" are dealt with a lot quicker - the 46a does not have multiple buses per day cancelled leaving an hour or more betwen departures. (Twitter search "#db25a operational reasons" - it's an eye opener!). They also get newer buses - still haven't seen those usb chargers on a West Dublin route. The buses are also cleaner. It's the little things that all add up.

Any comment on the proposed reduction in weekend frequency for Lucan? Or can you show me that it's definitely "completely false information"? I would love it not to be true.

john boye

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

Very interesting, thank you! I sincerely wish these bogeys would make an appearance on the 25a which must be the most unreliable bus service in existence. Multiple buses a day don't run for "operational reasons" and many more start/end on the quays instead of Merrion Square missing a large chunk of the route. I don't know how the people of Lucan South/Esker/Griffeen aren't up in arms over the shoddy service they put up with (and they're in for further cuts to their weekend service in this plan). Are these bogeys reserved for more prestige high profile routes like the 46a and the 7?

There are loads of bogies operated by Phibsboro/Broadstone on the 25s. Possibly even some from Harristown too but I'm not certain on that one.

Slutmonkey57b

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

The QBC is obviously a great benefit but they're also far more frequent and far more reliable in terms of adequate drivers actually rostered for buses and absences covered quicker. "Operational issues" are dealt with a lot quicker - the 46a does not have multiple buses per day cancelled leaving an hour or more betwen departures. (Twitter search "#db25a operational reasons" - it's an eye opener!). They also get newer buses - still haven't seen those usb chargers on a West Dublin route. The buses are also cleaner. It's the little things that all add up.

Equally, you don't have reports of people ripping the seats out of the bus and throwing them out the window as the bus is moving on the 46a route. Why would you spend a fortune on new buses and then put them on a route they'll get vandalised on?

As to your first point, the whole point of the plan is to bring 46a style frequency and reliability to all spines of the network, not just the n11 with it's (relatively) well organised QBC.

r93kaey5p2izun

john boye wrote: »

There are loads of bogies operated by Phibsboro/Broadstone on the 25s. Possibly even some from Harristown too but I'm not certain on that one.

If that's the case imagine how bad things would be without them! I get 10-16 25As a week. It is the norm for 5/6 buses I wait for not to run. Perhaps they're on the B route? It's definitely prioritised. I'm fed up filling out the DB online form over it.

Stephen15

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

The QBC is obviously a great benefit but they're also far more frequent and far more reliable in terms of adequate drivers actually rostered for buses and absences covered quicker. "Operational issues" are dealt with a lot quicker - the 46a does not have multiple buses per day cancelled leaving an hour or more betwen departures. (Twitter search "#db25a operational reasons" - it's an eye opener!). They also get newer buses - still haven't seen those usb chargers on a West Dublin route. The buses are also cleaner. It's the little things that all add up.

Any comment on the proposed reduction in weekend frequency for Lucan? Or can you show me that it's definitely "completely false information"? I would love it not to be true.

Why don't make a submission about the proposed Lucan frequency? That's all I can say I honestly didn't realise it wasn't as good as it is presently. Also the 25a isint the only bus that serves Lucan aren't the buses interworked out there atm along with the 25b, 66/a/b and the 67.

I can't comment for Lucan as I don't use the bus service out but I know the buses are interworked on that which means the frequency on the N4 is usually good as it's served by many routes as the routes are interworked. The N11 only has two routes the 46a and the 145 which are good but both can get held up in Bray and DL causing gaps to form. Also worth bearing in mind that the 46a and 145 are operated by Donnybrook which is a bigger depot with more buses and drivers than Conyngham Road Depot which is smaller with less routes and less drivers. The 46a is mostly operated by 05 or 07 tri axles and not 172 SGs with chargers.

r93kaey5p2izun

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Equally, you don't have reports of people ripping the seats out of the bus and throwing them out the window as the bus is moving on the 46a route. Why would you spend a fortune on new buses and then put them on a route they'll get vandalised on?

As to your first point, the whole point of the plan is to bring 46a style frequency and reliability to all spines of the network, not just the n11 with it's (relatively) well organised QBC.

I have never experienced antisocial behaviour on a Lucan bus.

r93kaey5p2izun

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why don't make a submission about the proposed Lucan frequency? That's all I can say I honestly didn't realise it wasn't as good as it is presently. Also the 25a isint the only bus that serves Lucan aren't the buses interworked out there atm along with the 25b, 66/a/b and the 67.

I can't comment for Lucan as I don't use the bus service out but I know the buses are interworked on that which means the frequency on the N4 is usually good as it's served by many routes as the routes are interworked. The N11 only has two routes the 46a and the 145 which are good but both can get held up in Bray and DL causing gaps to form. Also worth bearing in mind that the 46a and 145 are operated by Donnybrook which is a bigger depot with more buses and drivers than Conyngham Road Depot which is smaller with less routes and less drivers. The 46a is mostly operated by 05 or 07 tri axles and not 172 SGs with chargers.

I will be making a submission - I just want to make sure I have the full picture first.

The 25a and 25b serve a completely different parts of Lucan than the other buses - there's another 25-35mins of the route left after they leave the N4 corridor. Currently the combined 25a/b sections have 4 buses per hour all weekend - that will be reduced to only 2/3 per hour for most of the weekend. Quite a lot of houses are only served by one of the routes.

dashcamdanny

When they buy up eveyones front garden and driveway, where are these people supposed to park their cars?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Zebra3

dashcamdanny wrote: »

When they buy up eveyones front garden and driveway, where are these people supposed to park their cars?

They are not buying up everyone's front garden. :rolleyes:

SG317

Stephen15 wrote:

You do realise the 47 used to be a feeder to the N11 QBC that ran every every 20 mins between Belarmine and Donnybrook Depot before Network Direct and long before Shane Ross was minister for transport. The 84 doesn't serve Stepaside or go into town.

Glencairn Luas stop is close to Belarmine. I definitely think that Belarmine should get a frequeny increase, but the one it has got compared to other areas is quite generous. The two routes that serve it also essentially provide the same connection. The 233 is mainly to swrve Simons Ridge. Someone had told me it was the 84, turns out it was the 44. That makes more sense.

SG317

ITV2 wrote:

you mean the 44, sure he loves the 44 bus so he told me.. only ever saw him once on it.

Sorry yes, it was the 44.

SG317

Stephen15 wrote:

The reason the 46a and 145 are better than other routes is because they have longer stretches of QBC than other routes meaning they don't get held in traffic as much as others. Personally I think the likes of the 46a should be a benchmark for other routes and more bus priority.

The 25A and 25B also have one of the best stretches of QBC's as-well. From the Chaoelizod Bypass to Ballyowen Road they have a very good QBC.

dfx-

25A and 25B, two more routes that can be thrown onto the don't need to be redrawn pile.

They're so successful that VTs are needed/used on them in rush hour but let's scrub all that out and reduce the frequency in the name of progress.

ThunbergsAreGo

charlietheminxx wrote: »

The trains are at capacity as it stands, I’m not sure where you’ve heard they will be more frequent? It’s certainly not tied in with the Bus Connects proposals.

Is there not a bottle neck at Connolly which would severely prohibit more frequent trains?

MJohnston

dashcamdanny wrote: »

When they buy up eveyones front garden and driveway, where are these people supposed to park their cars?

There's no indication that they'll need to CPO whole gardens or driveways.

But it's not like driveway-less properties are a new concept in Dublin, in fact there are countless hundreds of them in most of the city.

Idbatterim

cgcsb wrote: »

242/W8 to saggart and luas or W8 to Hazelhatch and train is your best bet

Thanks for the reply. Yeah they are both out. Looks like I’m moving from here, the joke that passes for public transport being the main reason. An hour ! an hour ! on the last bus home last night! To f*cking rathcoole. You fly out to the red cow in a matter of minutes. Then the tour of west Dublin starts, it’s a joke! It taken me five minutes at the speed limit in a car, to get from rathcoole to red cow. Public transport out here is unbearable... does bus connects plan to do anything about the massively over the top number of stops also?

MJohnston

dfx- wrote: »

25A and 25B, two more routes that can be thrown onto the don't need to be redrawn pile.

They're so successful that VTs are needed/used on them in rush hour but let's scrub all that out and reduce the frequency in the name of progress.

Are you wilfully misleading people here? 25A and 25B are directly comparable to the C1 and C2 routes, which actually have INCREASED frequency within Lucan (and no deviations from the existing routes that I can see). Why are you claiming otherwise?

r93kaey5p2izun

MJohnston wrote: »

Are you wilfully misleading people here? 25A and 25B are directly comparable to the C1 and C2 routes, which actually have INCREASED frequency within Lucan (and no deviations from the existing routes that I can see). Why are you claiming otherwise?

They will have significantly reduced frequency at the weekend.

Both routes will have deviations from the current routes near the Lucan terminus - I don't have much issue with that except that the extension of both to Adamstown will mean more buses full and passing stops in the morning which is already an issue on the shorter 25a now.

Also the loss of the 25D peak route which skips the 25 minute meander around the whole of Esker/Griffeen will be a big loss for commuters.

jd

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

Also the loss of the 25D peak route which skips the 25 minute meander around the whole of Esker/Griffeen will be a big loss for commuters.

Not familiar with the areas, but do any of the peak only routes address this?
https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1248/map3-peakonly.pdf

SG317

Idbatterim wrote:

Thanks for the reply. Yeah they are both out. Looks like I’m moving from here, the joke that passes for public transport being the main reason. An hour ! an hour ! on the last bus home last night! To f*cking rathcoole. You fly out to the red cow in a matter of minutes. Then the tour of west Dublin starts, it’s a joke! It taken me five minutes at the speed limit in a car, to get from rathcoole to red cow. Public transport out here is unbearable... does bus connects plan to do anything about the massively over the top number of stops also?

The 69 is fastest route out of Citwest, the Luas is not a very far walk from Rathcoole. You also have the 69X, which is quicker than the Luas to Saggart. This route would be gone under Bus Connects. Instead Rathcoole gets the 242 which is about 2 km in length. It's a bit of a ridiculous route to be honest. Although frequency is every 25 minutes rather than the current hour. W8 also stops at the bottom of Rathcoole.