BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

john boye

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/1022520095946539008
This is him explaining how the unions are open to changes.

To phase phase we drove buses then drove smaller buses then bigger buses. Sometimes the bus would have to go new places and we drove there. We stopped handling cash and we asked for improved security got it but are listing that as willingness to change too

Embrace change? He's obviously banking on people not being old or bothered enough to remember individual cases. How long did the unions delay one-man operation by? It went on for years! And how many strikes were there over changing routes to imp operations? Some of them went on for months. And naturally the unions sold the imp drivers down the river when it was resolved.

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

Thrashssacre

tkd93 wrote: »

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. But when you consider the amount of people using the above routes plus buses like 69x 51D etc surely depriving a direct bus cannot be justified.

Most of the clondalkin villiage area still have direct busses in the form of the 63 and frequent D3 as well as two local routes and two orbitals. we're actually quite well served by the plan

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

LeinsterDub

Goldengirl wrote: »

A young person with a non visible disability?...Dial a Bus as I have already explained is not for me . I'm nowhere near ready for that sort of service. And frequency depends on how many others in your area are looking for transport to ,say the local shopping centre,at the same time.They are not frequent , often one trip or two to your area per day, and have to be booked at least the day before . So bye bye independence and spontaneity. The feeder bus , on the other hand, is at least every hour and maybe 100m from my door.

You want a bus service built around vanity and you've a bus stop outside your door so I'm alright jack?

Pa8301

You know this is all going to be erased in a few minutes?

AlekSmart

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Most of the clondalkin villiage area still have direct busses in the form of the 63 and frequent D3 as well as two local routes and two orbitals. we're actually quite well served by the plan

Be off with you,and your talking up of Busconnects...you obviously don't care about the poor,the disadvantaged and the elderly (feel free to add any others I've omitted)

At this point,Dermot O Leary has blown Busconnects clear out of the water.
Barring a miracle,this plan will be quietly referred back for further consideration before being stuffed into whatever spare filing cabinets the NTA can find.

In the meantime,the same NTA will be flailing around to find a scapegoat,and I venture that Bus Atha Cliath itself may well find itself having to take the flak for a seriously mishandled introduction programme,totally caused by the NTA itself.

Politicians are now nervous,each not wanting to be seen as unsympathetic to the poor,disadvantaged and elderly,with very few having any real interest in,or knowledge of Public Transport in any meaningful form.

The NBRU really are playing a blinder here,and it may well see a few NTA heads rolling yet....it's a good job the relevant Minister can now say...."Well Joe.....That would be a matter for the NTA to decide...."

It really is a funny old world

Slutmonkey57b

tkd93 wrote: »

At the moment I tend to organise myself around the 69 which tends to be hourly. I used to get the 13 home in the evenings but it was to packed to even fit everyone on board and was very slowly.

I am looking at a print out on facebook:
13 is gone.
68& 69 are now local services.
151 is gone.

It just seems very poorly communicated to me. If I look on the website I only see a bus between Red Cow and Driminagh. I cannot see this been implemented because when the general public starts getting its head around this there will be war.

"The current service is appalling and barely functions for me"

"They're designing a different network which will probably solve that problem?"

"I want to keep the existing routes"

??

noelfirl

AlekSmart wrote: »

Be off with you,and your talking up of Busconnects...you obviously don't care about the poor,the disadvantaged and the elderly (feel free to add any others I've omitted)

At this point,Dermot O Leary has blown Busconnects clear out of the water.
Barring a miracle,this plan will be quietly referred back for further consideration before being stuffed into whatever spare filing cabinets the NTA can find.

In the meantime,the same NTA will be flailing around to find a scapegoat,and I venture that Bus Atha Cliath itself may well find itself having to take the flak for a seriously mishandled introduction programme,totally caused by the NTA itself.

Politicians are now nervous,each not wanting to be seen as unsympathetic to the poor,disadvantaged and elderly,with very few having any real interest in,or knowledge of Public Transport in any meaningful form.

The NBRU really are playing a blinder here,and it may well see a few NTA heads rolling yet....it's a good job the relevant Minister can now say...."Well Joe.....That would be a matter for the NTA to decide...."

It really is a funny old world

Would you defend this sort of crap from the NBRU and it's surrogates about BusConnects, Alek?

BUSCONNECTS TO LEAVE DISABLED AND ELDERLY BY ROADSIDE VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN DANGER

MAKE IT STOP.

SAVE OUR HEROES AND ELDER STATESPEOPLE.

SAY NO TO THIS SAVAGE ATTACK AGAINST THE DISABLED AND ELDERLY.

A little bit of cop on please.

MJohnston

tkd93 wrote: »

At the moment I tend to organise myself around the 69 which tends to be hourly. I used to get the 13 home in the evenings but it was to packed to even fit everyone on board and was very slowly.

I am looking at a print out on facebook:
13 is gone.
68& 69 are now local services.
151 is gone.

It just seems very poorly communicated to me. If I look on the website I only see a bus between Red Cow and Driminagh. I cannot see this been implemented because when the general public starts getting its head around this there will be war.

If you used to get the 13, then the D3 route (the D is a spinal route, so unlike what you're hearing from some silly public figures, it will be a high quality route directly into the city centre) will be useful to you. It would drop you off in Clondalkin village, and then you've got a 15 minute walk to the Green Isle, which is maybe an extra 5 minutes compared to the 13? The trade-off is that the D3 will have a 10 minute peak frequency compared to the 12 minute peak frequency of the 13.



Only the 68 is going local (256), while the 69 will become the 63 and will remain at the same frequency.



In addition, you will now have access to the new 255 which will offer you a 15 minute peak-hour frequency connection between Red Cow Luas and the Boot Rd/Fonthill Rd junction.


The combination of the 255 and the D3 largely negates the loss of the 151 imo. There's only a small section of the New Nangor Road not covered by the D3 - the rest of the 151 route is covered.

magicbastarder

noelfirl wrote: »

Would you defend this sort of crap from the NBRU and it's surrogates about BusConnects, Alek?

the NBRU have officially disowned any posts on boards which purport to be NBRU posts - whoever it is posting here does not have sanction from NBRU head office. partly because it's just counterproductive, i guess.

noelfirl

magicbastarder wrote: »

the NBRU have officially disowned any posts on boards which purport to be NBRU posts - whoever it is posting here does not have sanction from NBRU head office. partly because it's just counterproductive, i guess.

Christ, that reminds me of a famous one from across the water that pretty much went out as this:

"The BBC asked the BBC for a comment on this story but the BBC told the BBC that no-one from the BBC was available to make a comment at this time".

Moving on...

It is clear that the NTA need to get a grip on the situation and start responding more pro-actively and ultimately, more positively about the changes. My only hope is that people start getting galvanised to quietly respond positively through the online consultation - the outcomes from the original survey make me somewhat hopeful that might be the case.

Stephen15

One thing I don't understand is why are they using random numbers between 1-100 for non spinal radial routes. Why don't they just from 1 upwards rather than random numbers like 63

dashcamdanny

magicbastarder wrote: »

the NBRU have officially disowned any posts on boards which purport to be NBRU posts - whoever it is posting here does not have sanction from NBRU head office. partly because it's just counterproductive, i guess.

I would hazard a guess the poster/troll is very much anti NBRU and trying to discredit them .
Judging by most of the opinions on this forum , I would also guess the culprit is posting here regularly as someone else.

The Unions have more to be doing than arguing of internet forums..

marno21

The NTA need a PR person pronto who has full knowledge and understanding of these projects and is able to represent on radio/TV/print media where required.

It's ridiculous that a radio segment on BusConnects or similar projects has a union boss talking unchallenged and no one to correct any misinformation.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

fly_agaric

Managed to make time this evening to a look at the summary document and the maps/detail in Chapter 7 of full report for areas of interest to me.
IMO overall it looks a good plan & a lot of thought and analysis has gone into it. I hope it goes ahead in conjunction with improvements to bus lanes along the "spines". If people want it to happen they should probably do the survey on the website and say so. Otherwise, I expect what we hear about in the media + from politicians in the coming months will be all of the negatives in exquisite detail and this work will be buried on some dusty shelf due to the usual political meddling and cowardice.

Telchak

Stephen15 wrote: »

One thing I don't understand is why are they using random numbers between 1-100 for non spinal radial routes. Why don't they just from 1 upwards rather than random numbers like 63

I would iimagine they don't want to introduce anymore confusion with existing services that would use those numbers.

MJohnston

AlekSmart wrote: »

The NBRU really are playing a blinder here,and it may well see a few NTA heads rolling yet....it's a good job the relevant Minister can now say...."Well Joe.....That would be a matter for the NTA to decide...."

Easy to play a blinder when they're just making up stuff.



Areas like Finglas and Cabra receiving big improvements to frequency, areas like Tallaght and Ballymun receiving new orbital routes to connect those areas with useful places other than the city centre. Yet O'Leary is on Twitter spreading lies about BusConnects being targeted against working class people.



Absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

Yer Da sells Avon

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The Unions have more to be doing than arguing of internet forums..

I don't know about that. The NBRU twitter account (presumably Dermot O'Leary himself) has spent the whole evening arguing with people on the internet.

john boye

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I would hazard a guess the poster/troll is very much anti NBRU and trying to discredit them .
Judging by most of the opinions on this forum , I would also guess the culprit is posting here regularly as someone else.

The Unions have more to be doing than arguing of internet forums..

Yes judging by the lack of any real substance or even detail (right or wrong) in the posts I doubt it's anyone connected to the union.

Stephen15

Telchak wrote: »

I would iimagine they don't want to introduce anymore confusion with existing services that would use those numbers.

But they are using numbers like 16 and 63 which are already in use

LeinsterDub

john boye wrote: »

Yes judging by the lack of any real substance or even detail (right or wrong) in the posts I doubt it's anyone connected to the union.

Read some of DOLs tweets and tell me he has any substance. He can't even define a position barring changing bus is bad.

dfx-

marno21 wrote: »

The NTA need a PR person pronto who has full knowledge and understanding of these projects and is able to represent on radio/TV/print media where required.

It's ridiculous that a radio segment on BusConnects or similar projects has a union boss talking unchallenged and no one to correct any misinformation.

How is it any surprise that the NTA which actively have searched out the shadows in disputes, working in the background and who refer complaints with generic email replies to contact the operator instead...

What in their entire history makes anyone think they are that proactive or ever will be? They are now busy with Go-Ahead starting, so it's not going to be anytime soon.

john boye

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Read some of DOLs tweets and tell me he has any substance. He can't even define a position barring changing bus is bad.

True but least he has looked at the plans enough to be able to cherry pick the parts of it which suit his agenda. Whoever is posting here doesn't seem to be even doing that.

n!ghtmancometh

MJohnston wrote: »

If you used to get the 13, then the D3 route (the D is a spinal route, so unlike what you're hearing from some silly public figures, it will be a high quality route directly into the city centre) will be useful to you. It would drop you off in Clondalkin village, and then you've got a 15 minute walk to the Green Isle, which is maybe an extra 5 minutes compared to the 13? The trade-off is that the D3 will have a 10 minute peak frequency compared to the 12 minute peak frequency of the 13.



Only the 68 is going local (256), while the 69 will become the 63 and will remain at the same frequency.



In addition, you will now have access to the new 255 which will offer you a 15 minute peak-hour frequency connection between Red Cow Luas and the Boot Rd/Fonthill Rd junction.


The combination of the 255 and the D3 largely negates the loss of the 151 imo. There's only a small section of the New Nangor Road not covered by the D3 - the rest of the 151 route is covered.

You are wrong. The 69 is not staying as the 63. The current 69 is fast enough, as it doesn't serve the interminable Woodford loop in Clondalkin and avoids the traffic choked Emmet Road/Mount Brown/James St/Thomas Street areas unlike the ridiculously slow 13. The 63 is covering all these areas, with no increase in frequency, even during peak hours. You also fail to mention that bus connects is removing 8 Xpresso journeys that serve Clondalkin (51D, 51x & 69x) for one morning only departure of a peak time service. More spin from Walker's cheerleaders.

Kh1993

Don’t think I’ve posted here since the day of the reveal, but have read lots and lots, including all the documents.

But my god, this forum is a difficult read. Firstly, the plan is good, but it’s not great, to quote a recently retired pundit.

Reading boards, there’s no in between. There’s th constant “this is the best plan ever, you can’t argue with Jarrett’s plan, the public wants to change buses, the unions/politicians are the devils” to the “there’s no bus to the door of the elderly, the system is fine, it just needs more buses, I’m losing my direct once an hour bus”.

As I said it’s a good plan. The spines, the orbitals all positive. New links and routes such as Clongriffin, Dundrum, Blanch. But also, current routes like the 15 suffer a decimation in frequency. That can’t be ignored. Either can areas and routes being cut such as the 33x and the 142. Pay more for a commuter train isn’t an alternative. There’s no positive spin on that despite what some will argue. Then there’s the fact so much depends on 10 min darts and extra Luas capacity. It’s hard to be positive about things that may or may not happen.

I seen a post a few days ago about how Templeogue will see a quite substantial deduction in frequency in the morning peak hours. The response was “they can move on to the dart or luas”. That is quite frankly ridiculous. Although the plan is good, there are some glaring inadequacies that seems to me like if you point them out, you’re a naysayer and should be happy with having to walk 15 minutes to a spine. It’s not as simple as people on both sides are seeing.

Politicians may be hugely wrong at times (see Jack O’Connor) but can you blame a politician lobbying when their area is losing a direct bus (see Dunboyne etc)? As logical as an interchange is, it’s a bloody hard thing to sell. The NTA need to be clearer on aspects such as designs of bus interchanges and fares (no commuter train involved?).

I say all this personally as someone who will benefit from BusConnects (a 17a avoiding Beaumont Hospital, a bus from Clongriffin and Donaghmede to Swords/Airport, orbitals serving DCU/Howth). Can we all try to see the bigger picture, not just our own circumstances or beliefs?

(And of course, send your submissions into BusConnects)

MJohnston

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

You are wrong. The 69 is not staying as the 63. The current 69 is fast enough, as it doesn't serve the interminable Woodford loop in Clondalkin and avoids the traffic choked Emmet Road/Mount Brown/James St/Thomas Street areas unlike the ridiculously slow 13. The 63 is covering all these areas, with no increase in frequency, even during peak hours. You also fail to mention that bus connects is removing 8 Xpresso journeys that serve Clondalkin (51D, 51x & 69x) for one morning only departure of a peak time service. More spin from Walker's cheerleaders.

You also fail to mention that the 63 isn't the only service available in the area formerly served by the 69!

MJohnston

Kh1993 wrote: »

Can we all try to see the bigger picture, not just our own circumstances or beliefs?

I definitely agree, and would certainly agree that BusConnects was never going to be a perfect plan right off the bat - there are definitely going to need to be lots of refinements (and they seem to expect this too).



The problem, I'd say, is that most of the other side of the debate is "this one part doesn't please me, so I'd like them to scrap the whole thing please" with a frustrating lack of alternative plans involved with that. It's hard not to seem like you're calling the current plan flawless in the face of that!

Kh1993

MJohnston wrote: »

I definitely agree, and would certainly agree that BusConnects was never going to be a perfect plan right off the bat - there are definitely going to need to be lots of refinements (and they seem to expect this too).



The problem, I'd say, is that most of the other side of the debate is "this one part doesn't please me, so I'd like them to scrap the whole thing please" with a frustrating lack of alternative plans involved with that. It's hard not to seem like you're calling the current plan flawless in the face of that!

I agree with this. But I think both sides have been at it. Certainly the nbru and some inept politicians have spread misinformation. But there’s also been lots of genuine cases like the 15, 33x, templeogue buses are which are been told “tough, walk to the spine/get the dart/it’s for the greater good”.