IABA mess over European team.

Danye

What's everybodies opinion on the current mess the IABA is in?

They "selected" Thomas Carthy for the European team, at 91kg, ahead of the man who beat him in the elite final, Martin Keenan.

IMO, this is ridiculous. It's been happening a while now but it looks like it has finally come to a head. What is the point of the elite championships? What encourages a lad to train his heart out in an attempt to win a title and get to the HP team only to be told you can't be selected??

flutered

i kinda get the feeling that it is a personal fiefdom nowdays

Donald Trump

I see both sides of the argument. Normally you'd say the winner wins the right to have first dibs for the rest of the year....but there is always going to be the possibility that the outstanding boxer is injured... Maybe they should only have the box offs if the previous champion was unable to enter or something.

Other option would of course just be to have run offs at all weights before major international competitions (if there is more than 3 months between nationals and the competition or something). All other boxers go into a round-robin or knock out with the winner having the final box off against the champion to go to the competition.

But cleanest way is just to say champion has first dibs.

Whatever they do, it should be consistent. Not one or two box offs because the favoured or connected boxer didn't win.

Grey area is when someone can't enter because they are tied up with WSB or APB or something similar...but maybe that shouldn't make a difference. Those structures could be set up so that the boxer has the right to take a break from them to compete in his nationals

walshb

Box Offs have been part of team selections for donkies years.

The big issue is that different sides/departments cannot seem to work closely together. No different than any organisation.

Box offs are the answer....

Strazdas

The issue with Carthy and Keenan seems to be only a sideshow. There appears to be a major power struggle going on within the IABA with some of them wanting control or influence over the HPU, and this is where all the problems lie.

It's certainly interesting that some of these characters were suggesting that Billy Walsh was the problem before he was forced out and now we find the chaos is carrying on with him long gone.

Joe_ Public

HP director picks the team, simple as, whether its Billy Walsh or Bernard Dunne or Mickey Magoo. If Central Council doesn't have faith that their man will pick the best team, then why on earth appoint him in the first place?

If Bernard doesn't take a stand on this and threaten to walk away if he doesn't get his way, then he's nothing more than a stooge in there. Wouldn't bet that he'll even last the summer.

Strazdas

Joe_ Public wrote: »

HP director picks the team, simple as, whether its Billy Walsh or Bernard Dunne or Mickey Magoo. If Central Council doesn't have faith that their man will pick the best team, then why on earth appoint him in the first place?

If Bernard doesn't take a stand on this and threaten to walk away if he doesn't get his way, then he's nothing more than a stooge in there. Wouldn't bet that he'll even last the summer.

Yes indeed, it's Billy Part 2. If this nonsense carries on, he may have to pack in the job very quickly.

They're not a very professional outfit if truth be told. It reminds of those stories about the FAI Council in the 1970s and early 1980s when they were making constant gaffes and crass errors and interfering in things that were of no concern of theirs.

Danye

pac_man wrote: »

I think you meant Dean Gardiner. What do you do if your number 1 boxer is out injured during the seniors? I think they are having a box-off which is probably the right thing to do.

Yeah sorry I meant Gardiner. I can understand the sentiment behind him going but ultimately I think it waters down the seniors. It's not Keenan's fault that he was injured either.

Good to se there's a box off - I think when I posted last night it was set that Gardiner was part of the squad without a box off.

Danye

Danye wrote: »

Yeah sorry I meant Gardiner. I can understand the sentiment behind him going but ultimately I think it waters down the seniors. It's not Keenan's fault that he was injured either.

Good to se there's a box off - I think when I posted last night it was set that Gardiner was part of the squad without a box off.

Gardiner wins the box off, 4-1.

Split decision for the added drama.

alanceltic

Gardiner won the box off on a split 4-1 decision but was well worthy of the win, looked very good in parts

walshb

I watched Keenan in the Seniors and I am a bit surprised that it was 4-1. Must have been somewhat close, or else one judge hasn't a clue. Gardiner for me is a very decent SHW by Irish standards.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

HP director picks the team, simple as, whether its Billy Walsh or Bernard Dunne or Mickey Magoo. If Central Council doesn't have faith that their man will pick the best team, then why on earth appoint him in the first place?

It's not as simple as. The HP director knows this, as did the previous "HP director." The rule book from 2006 would tell you this. Until this is changed then it is what it is.

Storm in teacup!

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

It's not as simple as. The HP director knows this, as did the previous "HP director." The rule book from 2006 would tell you this. Until this is changed then it is what it is.

Storm in teacup!

Quite obviously, it’s not simple. I was merely stating my principled belief that it should be so. Not getting into the whole rules farce, just more typical IABA nonsense. Par for the course at this stage.

I do appreciate the point being made, though, about the National Champs losing their lustre. I agree this is unfortunate, but it is a sign of the times. There is still prestige attached to winning a national title but it can no longer be the be all and end all when it comes to selection for major tournaments. These guys are in the high performance unit day in day out, they are doing high-end sparring, travelling for tournaments and training camps, there is WSB, APB, as others have mentioned, among other things. The HP director, along with his team of coaches, are the ones on the ground observing the boxers every day, they are best placed to make critical decisions and should be left alone to get on with it. Not some people turning up once a month or whatever for a committee meeting. No other system makes any sense at all to me.

I don't know what Bernard thought or agreed with the IABA recruiting team when he took the job, but if he's ok with his decisions being vetoed by council, well I guess that's his look-out.

As regards box-offs, I agree they are a good and fair system to resolve close-cut selection issues. Provided they are sanctioned by the HP team.

walshb

Your assuming that the council members are simply turning up and doing eff all else as regards watching or studying the boxers is a bit misplaced. Maybe they do a little more than this, but yes, the HP unit are at the core, so it stands to reason that their input would be of most value.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in this instance the HP (Dunne) initially picked Keenan (then agreed/put forward idea of box off) over Gardiner? If so they got it wrong, and clearly so I would say...

Possible that council members felt the same as me?

Joe_ Public

Yes, you're correct. Gardiner was initially overlooked by Dunne so perhaps that can go down as a lapse on his part. But that doesn't change my stance on the general principle. I'm not downgrading what council members do or their boxing knowledge. My belief is that it is beyond time for the HP unit to be detached from the IABA and run as an independent unit, so it goes without saying I don't think council members should have any say in team selection.