Radical action for cycling safety attention.

ED E

Macy0161 wrote: »

Anyone on the multitude of footage we've seen in the last year or so been actually done for a close pass? I'm not aware of any. A clear law makes bike cam footage actionable, and at the very least changes the perception that once you don't hit a cyclists "it's grand", which seems to be the opinion of the gardai as well as many people who drive.

Its already actionable. Seems to me most of the clip posters arent reporting them just sharing the footage with us.

Shedite27

rubadub wrote: »

still not sure if you are taking the piss. You would "love" the thought of all cyclists having to wait in a full on traffic jam simply because they "only" have 1.45m of which to over/undertake stationary cars on the inside?

And reading that thankfully cyclists will be allowed go on the inside still, rather than the utterly ludicrous suggestion/scenario you are getting at. I was wondering if you really cycle at all, sounded more like a pissed off motorist doing this childish "but but but, they should have to do it too, why should I be the only one put out" -completely ignoring what the law actually set out to prevent.

And I expect if the law is passed and garda see cars passing at say 20km/h with "only" 0.9m clearance they would let them off, just as they would in your bus example.

If you think I'm taking the piss then I think you're living in a bubble where you only read the cycling forum and talk to cyclists in your club.

I'm certainly not a motorist, but the fact that you try to identify me as such shows me quite clearly you're in Team Cyclist in some imaginary battle with Team Motorists. I'm a realistic citizen

Mercian Pro

Shedite27 wrote: »

Well they're never gonna be, my questions is how far you'd go out of your way.

For example coming into Dublin from Fairview, I could see a sceanrio in a few years where there'll be a segregated cycle path down over East Link, to meet the segregated track up the quays. Would add 2k to my commute versus going down the congested Amiens St/North Wall.

Be interesting to see how many would take it

You'll be glad to know that plans for a two-way cyclepath from Fairview to Amiens St are quite advanced. There is nothing currently planned for East Wall Road despite the fact that it is an essential part of S2S and has a wide under-utilised footpath that could be used.

When I used to commute regularly to work, I would generally take the shortest route even though it included such delights as D'Olier St and Tara St. However, if my less confident/experienced partner were with me, we would try to find segregated routes where possible.

07Lapierre

Shedite27 wrote: »

Well they're never gonna be, my questions is how far you'd go out of your way.

For example coming into Dublin from Fairview, I could see a sceanrio in a few years where there'll be a segregated cycle path down over East Link, to meet the segregated track up the quays. Would add 2k to my commute versus going down the congested Amiens St/North Wall.

Be interesting to see how many would take it

Very few I imagine. If cycle paths/routes are to be successful, they must allow the cyclist to go from A-B as efficiently as possible. Any cycle path/route between A and B that requires the cyclist to take a longer route will not work, unless the longer route is more efficient than the more direct route.

Chuchote

Considering that half of all car journeys in Ireland are under 2km, it's a bit of a stretch to imagine that adding 2km to a cyclist's journey is acceptable

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

Wouldn't wear that; it would simply irritate other people.

i was thinking of the 'embrace the terms others use as abuse to disarm it' approach there.

magicbastarder

@Shedite27 - you did seem to suggest that if a motorist must give a cyclist a 1 or 1.5m berth, that the converse should also apply, but the situations are not equivalent; there's a significant imbalance so the passing distance has no logical reason to apply in converse.

Chuchote

By the way, has the American tourist killed in Kerry been named? I haven't seen any more about the circumstances of her death than that she and a 4x4 collided and she was with a touring group.

Pinch Flat

Chuchote wrote: »

By the way, has the American tourist killed in Kerry been named? I haven't seen any more about the circumstances of her death than that she and a 4x4 collided and she was with a touring group.

Maybe the family haven't all been informed or they requested privacy?

AndrewJRenko

Shedite27 wrote: »

The 1.5m has a onus on the cyclist too, can't pass on the inside of a vehicle unless there's 1.5m of space (that's half a bus width) for you to get through. Are you willing to stay behind that car unless there's 1.5m clearance?

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'd love the 1.5m rule, but think all road users have to respect it. I agree with other posters, I see far too many cyclists going up the inside of busses on my commute each day with far less than 1.5m - gives us all a bad name

Do you get the concept of different rules/laws for different levels of risk and danger? You know why we have different rules for HGVs and for cars, right?

And can we give the 'give us all a bad name' thing a rest. We're not collectively responsible, any more than motorists are collectively responsible for the deaths on the road.

Thud

ED E wrote: »

Its already actionable. Seems to me most of the clip posters arent reporting them just sharing the footage with us.

probably expect this reaction:
http://road.cc/content/news/223569-nottingham-cyclist-was-initially-told-go-away-when-he-tried-report-near-miss

I brought a clip in on a USB stick to local station a while back sat in a queue for 45mins behind some victims/perps of crimes while one garda processed them extremely slowly, eventually gave up and left, girl in queue after me had been mugged so honestly felt she needed to get dealt with before me.

Ideally if you could log them on line or email it would probably increase the number of reports but doubt understaffed Guards want to deal with that.

cython

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you get the concept of different rules/laws for different levels of risk and danger? You know why we have different rules for HGVs and for cars, right?

And can we give the 'give us all a bad name' thing a rest. We're not collectively responsible, any more than motorists are collectively responsible for the deaths on the road.

To be fair, I don't think anyone here who uses that phrase is suggesting collective responsibility on the part of cyclists for the transgressions of the few. However, like it or not, there is a cohort of other road users who are all too happy to use the behaviour of said few to vilify all cyclists, and ultimately the "name" of cyclists in this context is a measure of how they are perceived by others, so it's an accurate portrayal of the impact, wrong as the impact may be.

Rogue-Trooper

Thud wrote: »

probably expect this reaction:
http://road.cc/content/news/223569-nottingham-cyclist-was-initially-told-go-away-when-he-tried-report-near-miss

I brought a clip in on a USB stick to local station a while back sat in a queue for 45mins behind some victims/perps of crimes while one garda processed them extremely slowly, eventually gave up and left, girl in queue after me had been mugged so honestly felt she needed to get dealt with before me.

Ideally if you could log them on line or email it would probably increase the number of reports but doubt understaffed Guards want to deal with that.

TrafficWatch (1890 205805) is the way to report these things. Give them the details and they pass it to the relevant garda station who then get in touch with you directly. There's no need to sit in a queue in a busy station.

Macy0161

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think this is one of the biggest single issues; no one is afraid of being done for breaking the law anymore, and it's made most (if not many) people lazier as regards driving and cycling standards.

Not really convinced that it's just lack of fear of enforcement to be honest. This week, there's been lots of backlash against enforcement in the port tunnel, and the extended 30km/hr.

There's a whole mindset that someone else doing something wrong should be stopped/ fined/ enforced, but what I do that is wrong/ illegal is just revenue generating/ "shooting fish in a barrel"/ "I'll have to watch the speedo not the road".

I love Sean nos

Shedite27 wrote: »

Is the bus then illegal through no fault of its own?

Yes, the bus is then illegal. It should hand itself in to Gardai at the earliest possible opportunity. The passengers will have to give statements, but should get away with a warning rather than face charges. The driver will be charged as an accomplice. :rolleyes:

Pinch Flat

Rogue-Trooper wrote: »

TrafficWatch (1890 205805) is the way to report these things. Give them the details and they pass it to the relevant garda station who then get in touch with you directly. There's no need to sit in a queue in a busy station.

You still need to get to a station and make a formal complaint though.

cloonamnaman

Andy Magic wrote: »

People have become so selfish these days and there is no amount of laws or enforcement that will change this. I drive and cycle, I have given up cycling to work and I have given up cycling on roads that I am consistently in danger on, I now go different routes. I believe the media has created an us vs them between motorists and cyclists which needs to be reversed, I think it’s up to Irish media to report incidents factually and not post stupid opinion polls or incorrect reporting which unites people to hate cyclists.

Back to my point of selfishness though, I think since the recession kicked in everyone wants to get one over on each other and this filters right down to cutting people off in traffic, at lights or roundabouts.. It’s all about getting one over on someone. I notice this even when driving but I feel far safer in my car. I have also noticed the 1.5m is not obeyed or enforced, sure the guards themselves have squeezed by at less than 1m.

RIP to the latest man to pass away, it’s a pity the media can’t report who he has left behind.

This is it, no matter the laws or their implementation. My heart sank with news of 1.5m safe passing zone proposal, it is just another attempt to legislate human consideration. Consideration, even compassion is fashionably rare in drivers v cyclists and more laws will exacerbate the problem except possibly in one instance, to make all drivers cycle at some point before they take to the road/again. How unfeasible this 'law' would be I have no idea. It just does seem that something must done.

Rogue-Trooper

Pinch Flat wrote: »

You still need to get to a station and make a formal complaint though.

Not necessarily, they can come to you - you make that arrangement with them on the phone. If you do go to the station, at least you have made an appointment with the Garda handling the issue for a specific time and not sitting in line for hours.

The one thing I would say is don't expect it to come to a resolution quickly, these things can take some time.