Dilemma- Granny is smoker

DeadlyByDesign

So My little bundle of joy has just turned 2 months old and apart from the dreaded reflux he seems to be flying (after being 5 weeks early to the party). Myself and the Mrs reckon he is hardy enough for the hour car trip down to see his Nanny(on my side).

Only problem is where I KNOW there is going to be a fight, is that my auld one smokes like a train. And I dont want second hand smoke around him at all. I know her plan is to say "we can all go to the front room", as she never smokes in there, but it doesn't matter as the house in general smells like an ashtray and there will be naturally residue everywhere after years of smoking, regardless of what room we are in. And I know my little one will have a bang of smoke off him after the visit regardless of where he is in the house.

It's not like he can never see his nanny,but I know she will not just give it up as she has been smoking since she was a teenager. Has anyone else been in this situation? Should I just embrace the fact that it's going to be a massive fight regardless?

catrionanic

If it's important to you and your wife, I think you need to address it. Yes she is the grandmother, and she's not going to stop smoking, but this is your baby, and your rules go. I wouldn't be happy about my baby being in a house full of second-hand smoke either. I think you need to have the conversation as you've a long road ahead of you.

I think you should raise it with her, explain your reasons and perhaps have some official recommendations from a health organisation to hand to give to her, just to show her that it's not just you having ideas or being demanding. You'll need to come to some sort of agreement you can be comfortable with... whether that's her changing her clothes and showering after she has a cigarette and before holding baby, smoking outdoors in the days before you visit, or not smoking in the house at all. If she's reluctant to change anything, then maybe you should politely suggest meeting them in a local pub instead of going to the house, just to quietly show that you're not going to relent on this one? Or get them to come to you rather than you going to them? If she's not happy with that arrangement, that's kind of her own fault and she needs to come up with some other suggestions.

We have a similar situation with my husband's aunt, who is the baby's godmother. Fortunately she smokes outside, and only sees the baby once a month or so, so it isn't too bad. They do recommend that she showers and changes her clothes before holding the baby, but we decided to let that one go. It would be different if she was seeing him every day, though.

It's a tough one alright.

Loveinapril

Go somewhere else. Just meet her in a local cafe or something. I completely agree with you and will be the same when my child arrives. We are lucky though, that we have very few smokers in our families and none smoke in their homes.

Neyite

Could you visit and stay in a hotel or hostel locally?

Or invite her to your house instead? Though that might not always work depending on how stubborn the granny is!

My cousin had a similar issue with her mother who is a heavy smoker. She was clear that granny was welcome to come over to the baby's house day or night but that as long there were smokers smoking in a house, she would not visit theirs with the baby - said very nicely and even offered lifts to hers and back. Granny never bothered.

Granny spread around the story that daughter 'kept her grandchild away' from her even though the other granny got to see the baby all the time. When I heard this version I set the person straight because as soon as Granny moved to her nicer house she didn't want to wreck with smoking and started to smoke outdoors, she did get weekly visits from the grandchild. She was well able to stop smoking indoors so as not to damage her furnishings, but not her newborn grandchild's lungs. Sad really. And I say that as a heavy ex smoker myself.

I think you just need to tell her straight, and be clear what compromises you would be happy with and what you wouldn't. Hints wont work. And if she gets offended...well that's too bad. It'll be the first of many aspects of parenting that has changed since her day - seat belts/car seats, weaning, sleep positions, swaddling, smoky environments to name but a few are things that are different and we know better about now.

Hope the chat has not too much fall out for you.

DeadlyByDesign

Neyite wrote: »

It'll be the first of many aspects of parenting that has changed since her day - seat belts/car seats, weaning, sleep positions, swaddling, smoky environments to name but a few are things that are different and we know better about now.

This is the thing isn't it? I know the first retort will be is that"it never done me any harm" (even though I had asthma at a very early age...)and I know she will think that I am being over protective (I am so what?)

She has MS so her visiting on a regular basis is not really possible. I know it's not going to be a pleasant conversation as my ma has a penchant to fly to the dramatic/scorched earth outcome of any argument.

Neyite

"it never did you any harm" - Oh I think if us parents had a euro for every time we heard a version of this we'd have the college fund sorted Though my own mother says it a lot, very often she marvels at the way we have knowledge and research to hand and says she would have loved to have had that in her day.

It's unfortunate that your mother reacts like that - my cousins mother is exactly like that too, gets offended over nothing very easily and could fall out with someone for years even when she knows she's in the wrong. I don't think there is any telling them and ultimately they are the ones to miss out. Her illness complicates things if she can't visit you.

Having your homework done on passive smoking and it's effects before you chat - not to berate her with facts and stats but it might make you feel more prepared and more resolute that it's the right thing to do.

Kimbot

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

This is the thing isn't it? I know the first retort will be is that"it never done me any harm" (even though I had asthma at a very early age...)and I know she will think that I am being over protective (I am so what?)

She has MS so her visiting on a regular basis is not really possible. I know it's not going to be a pleasant conversation as my ma has a penchant to fly to the dramatic/scorched earth outcome of any argument.

Have a little chat with her ASAP about your concerns. At the end of the day its her home so you can't exactly expect her to quit cos you guys had a baby. The meeting in a cafe is a good idea too

shesty

Did the hospital say anything to you about smokers handling your baby when you left?This time roumd (baba no.2) they actually said as part of the going home spiel not to let smokers handle the baby for at least 30 mins (or an hour?) After they last smoked, to wash their hands very thoroughly first and to remove any outer layer of clothes they are wearing, particularly if they had them on while smoking.I was surprised.And my sister got a similar spiel in a different hospital a few months later.

Could that be an approach to take?The hospital specifically said....?

farmchoice

DeadlyByDesign wrote: »

This is the thing isn't it? I know the first retort will be is that"it never done me any harm" (even though I had asthma at a very early age...)and I know she will think that I am being over protective (I am so what?)

She has MS so her visiting on a regular basis is not really possible. I know it's not going to be a pleasant conversation as my ma has a penchant to fly to the dramatic/scorched earth outcome of any argument.

i was in a very similar situation, my wife's mother smoked. when we went to visit she would not smoke in the house but as you say everything smelled of smoke and by the time we left so did the baby.

try and get her not to smoke in the house while your there or at least keep it to one room.

its not ideal but your kid is not going to be adversely affected by being in a smoke smelling house for a day or two every now and again, it would be different if you were living there.

she is your mother and your baby's grandmother in years to come you will be telling your little one about her granny and ''how she used to smoke like a train and how you would come home smelling like an ashtray but oh how she loved you and how you brought such joy to her and how she spoiled you and how she even took to smoking outside occasionally when you were around''.

my MIL died a while back and how we would all love to have even one more smokey day with her.

life's not always the way we would like it and sometimes we have to make compromises, this is one of those.

shesty

shesty wrote: »

Did the hospital say anything to you about smokers handling your baby when you left?This time roumd (baba no.2) they actually said as part of the going home spiel not to let smokers handle the baby for at least 30 mins (or an hour?) After they last smoked, to wash their hands very thoroughly first and to remove any outer layer of clothes they are wearing, particularly if they had them on while smoking.

This seems way over the top. Just be sensible and reasonable. The occasional contact with their sick grandmother is the most important thing, way more important than avoiding a whiff of smoke.

Neyite

farmchoice wrote: »

life's not always the way we would like it and sometimes we have to make compromises, this is one of those.

Invariably it's usually the non-smokers who have to 'compromise' though?

DeadlyByDesign

shesty wrote: »

Did the hospital say anything to you about smokers handling your baby when you left?This time roumd (baba no.2) they actually said as part of the going home spiel not to let smokers handle the baby for at least 30 mins (or an hour?) After they last smoked, to wash their hands very thoroughly first and to remove any outer layer of clothes they are wearing, particularly if they had them on while smoking.I was surprised.And my sister got a similar spiel in a different hospital a few months later.

Could that be an approach to take?The hospital specifically said....?

Yeh this was said to us as we were being discharged. I have mentioned this to a few people and it is 50/50 as to if they heard the same thing, So I am thinking this may be a new thing.

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farmchoice

Neyite wrote: »

Invariably it's usually the non-smokers who have to 'compromise' though?

in fairness and i say this as a non smoker in the world we live in its nearly always the smokers who have to compromise and rightly so.

pwurple

3 out of the 4 of my children's grandparents smoked when my eldest was born 6 years ago. The 4th had given up a few years previously. Now, they have all have given up, with one still on inhaler devices. Nothing to do with us, but all of them just started getting some smoking-related problems... a cough that wouldn't clear, etc.

We didn't expose the children to smoke, but visited anyway, just stayed outside where possible. Worked around it.

Maybe suggest the inhalors though, my mum loves them. No smell, no mess, way cheaper.

Neyite

farmchoice wrote: »

in fairness and i say this as a non smoker in the world we live in its nearly always the smokers who have to compromise and rightly so.

I've been both a smoker for 20 years and a non smoker now for 10. I've never expected someone to compromise on my habit but I've met plenty of smokers that did. An older relative was the first one to use the ashtray in my new pride and joy car when I smoked. I've never smoked in my home but people who came over expected to smoke in it, knowing it's a non-smoking house. I've had to sit freezing and wet outside a coffee shop in November because my friend couldn't drink her coffee without a fag. Actually we had to sit outside every time we met and it's a reason I phased out the friendship. I've lost friends for hours while they buggered off to the smoking area on nights out and sat bored off my tree waiting for them, and I've had no option but to join them in the fug if I wanted to interact with any of them. Walking down the street one Saturday someone's hand was the same height as my toddler's eye and they caught their cigarette on his eyelid leaving a burn and a face full of smoke.

Of any addictions, nicotine is the only one I can think of where an ex addict is expected to be fine around people using. People wouldn't get offended if an ex-heroin addict asked that you didn't shoot up in their home or if an ex-alcoholic explained they don't want alcohol in their house. But an ex smoker saying "please smoke outside" often causes ructions.

I'm very tolerant of smokers. My own partner is a smoker. But in my experience a lot of smokers are intolerant and unwilling to accept how unpleasant their habit is for those around them. Adults have a choice to be around smokers. Babies and children don't.

annoyedgal

Personally I wouldn't bring a small baby into a house where anytime smoked, period. Stay somewhere else and give granny as much time as she wants to visit outside the house.
Could she visit you in your home and smoke outside?
I'd feel pretty strongly about this and I'm an ex smoker! If you explain it tactfully that it's advised by the hospital hopefully it will take the sting out of it.

shesty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This seems way over the top. Just be sensible and reasonable. The occasional contact with their sick grandmother is the most important thing, way more important than avoiding a whiff of smoke.

I have to say I was surprised by it too. Never heard it first time round (which had only been twenty months before no.2 arrived!) And I thought it was a bit over the top too....but then I decided the hospital obviously has it's own reasons for giving out advice like that.

I don't know OP, you could certainly ask to wash her hands and goes without saying she doesn't smoke around the baby.I'm not sure otherwise. I had a grandparent who was a smoker, and he did smoke with us in the room as we grew up.Honestly I hated it, by the time I was 13 I hated how my clothes and my hair smelled of smoke and that I felt all choked up.And if I ever had a cold or anything, it was a hundred times worse after a visit.I loved him, but I hated that habit.

kandr10

This is not just about making compromises with a smoker. This is a parent and grandparent to the child. Those of you suggesting to meet in a hotel or coffe shop are crazy. What kind of message does that send to the grandparents? What kind of relationship are they supposed to build if they can't enjoy their grandchild in their own home?
Personally my mil is a smoker. She elected to smoke out the window while we're there (even though the wind blows it back in cos she faces the wrong way!) we appreciate her making an effort and she feels she's doing her best. When she gifts clothes and stuff they all stink of smoke and our clothes smell when we leave but we just wash them and get on with things.
A previous poster mentioned their mil has passed away and they'd love the chance to have another day with them. My own mil is critically ill at the moment and the thoughts of not visiting her at home where she gave so many lovely memories to my girl is terrifying and devastating.
Obviously we know passive smoking is dangerous. In reality, if you are visiting the grandparents every so often for a day or two, does it matter that much that you'd sacrifice their feeling comfortable and building memories?
I know my own parents (non smokers) also felt put out when they're grandchild wasn't brought to visit very often. They always have to travel to see the kid and it does leave them feeling hurt and as though they're house isn't good enough or there's something wrong with them.
Op, talk to your mother and voice your concerns but at the end of the day, the best case scenario is that she'll choose to smoke outside.

Bacchus

kandr10 wrote: »

What kind of message does that send to the grandparents? What kind of relationship are they supposed to build if they can't enjoy their grandchild in their own home?

What kind of message does it send that the grandparent chooses to continue to smoke over the health of their grandchild. If you're so concerned about building relationships and memories, how about stop smoking! You'll improve you health so you'll be more able to play more with your grandchild (better quality time). You'll decrease your risk of cancer and potentially live longer as a result (more time). Time spent stepping outside for a smoke is time you can now spend with your grandchild (more time).

Fortunately, in our situation no immediate family smokes. There are one or two friends and extended family who do but we see them rarely so it's not an issue. I would VERY hesitantly let them hold my daughter and certainly wouldn't offer to them "do you want to hold her". It's rare enough that we meet them though so it's not worth the hassle of being pushy about it and to be fair they're not all over her either. It'd be a different story though if it was someone who was regularly in our company.

At the end of the day, I don't want my 6 month old daughter smelling of smoke. I don't want to have to wash all our clothes because of someone else's habit. I don't want her inhaling second hand smoke or having smoke residue rubbing on her skin. It's a parents responsibility to look out for the well-being of their child. It's an individual choice on where you draw the line but IMO, it's simple... give up that thing you are doing that is poisoning you and those around you, and put your grandchild's health ahead of your own addiction.

kandr10

Bacchus wrote: »

What kind of message does it send that the grandparent chooses to continue to smoke over the health of their grandchild. If you're so concerned about building relationships and memories, how about stop smoking! You'll improve you health so you'll be more able to play more with your grandchild (better quality time). You'll decrease your risk of cancer and potentially live longer as a result (more time). Time spent stepping outside for a smoke is time you can now spend with your grandchild (more time).

Fortunately, in our situation no immediate family smokes. There are one or two friends and extended family who do but we see them rarely so it's not an issue. I would VERY hesitantly let them hold my daughter and certainly wouldn't offer to them "do you want to hold her". It's rare enough that we meet them though so it's not worth the hassle of being pushy about it and to be fair they're not all over her either. It'd be a different story though if it was someone who was regularly in our company.

At the end of the day, I don't want my 6 month old daughter smelling of smoke. I don't want to have to wash all our clothes because of someone else's habit. I don't want her inhaling second hand smoke or having smoke residue rubbing on her skin. It's a parents responsibility to look out for the well-being of their child. It's an individual choice on where you draw the line but IMO, it's simple... give up that thing you are doing that is poisoning you and those around you, and put your grandchild's health ahead of your own addiction.

No it most definitely is not that simple. You don't need to outline the reasons for not smoking, I know and understand. That is why I choose not to. However I am not in control of anyone else's habits. My mil knows that smoking is bad and has tried to quit but a lifelong habit is not something that can be broken that easily.
If I refused to go to their house with my child, I know it wouldn't force her to quit and would breed bad feelings and my child's relationship with her grandparents would suffer.
I think it's easy to take the stance you're taking as you don't have any smokers in your immediate family. Life is not as clear cut as you make it out to be.

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kandr10

....... wrote: »

It really is that simple.

There is no way that someones addiction should be treated as more important than the health of an infant.

What experience are you basing that on? Who did you personally cut out or reduce contact with to tie in with that view? How did it work out for you when you did so, assuming you did?

Bacchus

kandr10 wrote: »

No it most definitely is not that simple. You don't need to outline the reasons for not smoking, I know and understand. That is why I choose not to. However I am not in control of anyone else's habits. My mil knows that smoking is bad and has tried to quit but a lifelong habit is not something that can be broken that easily.
If I refused to go to their house with my child, I know it wouldn't force her to quit and would breed bad feelings and my child's relationship with her grandparents would suffer.
I think it's easy to take the stance you're taking as you don't have any smokers in your immediate family. Life is not as clear cut as you make it out to be.

I should restate... I have no living immediate members of my family who smoke. I am painfully aware of how crummy life can be. Does that paint the picture for you now? Does that qualify me to take the stance that its a baby's health vs an addiction?

And to bring this back to something I've already said, its an individual choice based on your own health concerns for your child and the circumstances of the person in question.

In my opinion, in this day and age where vaping is a far less damaging alternative, there's is simply NO EXCUSE to put your addiction to something that harms you and those around ahead of your grandchild. The excuse that's its not easy is pathetic quite frankly. It's never been easier to quit smoking and with a baby involved what more motivation could you need.

kandr10 wrote: »

What experience are you basing that on? Who did you personally cut out or reduce contact with to tie in with that view? How did it work out for you when you did so, assuming you did?

What exactly is it with you and "experience". We're not applying for a job here, everyone (including yourself) knows the damage that smoking does and (given the forum we're in) is likely a parent. There two aspects to this...
1. Smoking is bad mmkay. So don't smoke around my baby.
2. The personal relationship with the smoker. That is an individual situation that needs to be handled in its own context. I don't think anyone has disagreed with that. There is no excuse to be smoking around a baby but it all comes back to where that line is for the parent if they are willing to let it slide. For example, those rare visits we have from smokers. It's not worth me causing an issue out of it because it's so rare we see them and (as I said) they're not pushy about "oh let me have a hold of her".

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ElleToro

If it were me, I wouldn't allow it, I'd meet the Granny in a hotel/cafe, anywhere else. The baby arrived 5 weeks early, I know from having my own boy arrive 6 weeks early that they're a little more fragile than a full term infant, and there's not a chance I'd let them be exposed to second hand smoke. Why take any risks with a small baby.

As for relationships... its all well and good saying you'll damage the grandparent relationship, but come on, they'll either understand or you can address it down the line. New baby is always paramount in my view, end of!

Theboinkmaster

farmchoice wrote: »

its not ideal but your kid is not going to be adversely affected by being in a smoke smelling house for a day or two every now and again

That is contrary to current medical advice.

Theboinkmaster

kandr10 wrote: »

This is not just about making compromises with a smoker. This is a parent and grandparent to the child. Those of you suggesting to meet in a hotel or coffe shop are crazy. What kind of message does that send to the grandparents? What kind of relationship are they supposed to build if they can't enjoy their grandchild in their own home?

Sorry but that is utter nonsense. There is absolutely no way I would ever bring my baby into a house that smelled of smoke. This isn't over parenting or being overly sensitive this is on the basis of current medical advice as well as just commons sense.

Do you have any idea how sensitive a small baby's lungs, internal organs, skin etc. is? You're completely naive TBH.

OP - like others have suggested invite her over to you, meet in other places etc. but there's no way I'd step foot into that house. Explain your rationale to her and leave it at that.

If she gets disgruntled or weird about it - fvck her, you're doing what's best for your baby which is exactly what you're meant to do.