New Tram Lines a potential factor in Cyclist's Death in Edinburgh

Moflojo

Here's one to ponder given the imminent opening of the Luas Cross City. After months of complaints and hundreds of injuries, a cyclist died today in Edinburgh when her wheel got stuck in the tram lines and she fell in front of a minibus.

The local cycling campaign has been highlighting this issue for a long time now, and warning about the potentially fatal design flaws of the tram tracks.

Here in Dublin we've already had multiple injuries caused by the tracks during the construction of the Luas Cross City - How can we be sure that the risk the tracks pose won't continue to be there when the tram line is operational?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-40105253

mr spuckler

isn't there a firm rubber infill now available to prevent these incidents, or at least reduce the number? iirc it compresses with the weight of the tram but sould be close to a level surface when bikes would ride over it.

ED E

mr spuckler wrote: »

isn't there a firm rubber infill now available to prevent these incidents, or at least reduce the number? iirc it compresses with the weight of the tram but sould be close to a level surface when bikes would ride over it.

Its been removed in sections here during BXD works.

All My Stars Aligned

Just saw a girl gone of her bike this morning after catching her front wheel on the new tracks on O'Connell St. Thankfully she managed to catch herself so no damage done.

They are lethal though.

PCX

I told a doctor at the Mater hospital fracture clinic I had broken my arm falling while cycling. He immediately asked was it on the luas tracks. He seemed surprised when I said no as he said almost all of the cycling injuries he sees are related to the luas tracks.

ED E

Picture not for the very squeamish!
https://twitter.com/Cyclistie/status/827179081246531588

This is a @LuasCrossCity injury. If it happened within mobile site @TheHSA would stop work while investigating cause. Do cyclists count? pic.twitter.com/fu7cX0DD3J

cython

PCX wrote: »

I told a doctor at the Mater hospital fracture clinic I had broken my arm falling while cycling. He immediately asked was it on the luas tracks. He seemed surprised when I said no as he said almost all of the cycling injuries he sees are related to the luas tracks.

I seem to recall a poster on here recounting the use/origin of the term "Luas victim" in St James's A&E, i.e. it was an informal term the staff used to denote someone who had come a cropper on the tracks out in front of the hospital!

As for the infill, and its removal here, to my knowledge what has been removed was only ever temporarily in place while the works were ongoing. The rubber one that has been referenced is actually a permanent fitting that relies on the weight of the tram to deflect it, while lighter cyclists just ride on top of it, and has never been in scope for the Luas.

mr spuckler

cython wrote: »

As for the infill, and its removal here, to my knowledge what has been removed was only ever temporarily in place while the works were ongoing. The rubber one that has been referenced is actually a permanent fitting that relies on the weight of the tram to deflect it, while lighter cyclists just ride on top of it, and has never been in scope for the Luas.

yeah that's my understanding of it too.

Cakewheels

This is very sad and frustrating to see as campaigners were raising the issue of the problems with the tram tracks from when they were first installed in Edinburgh.

The article linked below the one you posted also points out that as far back as May 2015, one single legal firm was already dealing with over 100 cases of cyclists injured on the tracks there. And one of the lawyers said: "To my mind, it's absolutely inevitable that unless something happens we will see a death on the streets of our capital city."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-32899109

Back here, just yesterday, someone cycled past me on the footpath outside trinity and I almost challenged him on it as there was a lot of pedestrians around at the time, but just as I was about to say something I heard the noise of another cyclist hitting the road and I think it was due to the tracks as there was nobody else near her at the time. I still think the guy I saw should have dismounted if he was going to be on the path, but I could definitely see why he didn't want to be on the road.

I'd be interested to know if the authorities are collecting stats on the number of incidents in Dublin, but any official figures are probably on the low side, as a lot of people with minor injuries probably don't bother reporting incidents, especially as it seems to have become so common now.

Stephen15

So will this mean that the luas will be constantly getting delayed while ambulance crews tend to cyclists with luas track related injuries. Id say motorcyclists might be a problem I remember hearing that the docks is lethal for them with all the railway tracks down. Are there not issues with existing Luas lines and at level crossings.

Im not a member of the lets bash cyclists brigade but I think this is a case of cyclists needing to be more careful and wary of their surroundings.

Cookie_Monster

Stephen15 wrote: »

Im not a member of the lets bash cyclists brigade but I think this is a case of cyclists needing to be more careful and wary of their surroundings.

It does seem like the obvious thing tbh, the tracks are a fixed feature, easy to see and should be avoided unless crossing at 90 degrees.

That said if we are seeing such high accident rates, you have to ask why. Is the road design forcing cyclists into close proximity of track un-necessarily, are junctions badly designed, are there specific high volume cycling routes crossing tracks at specific locations that can be looked at etc.

beauf

I notice that people with wide tyres don't have a problem with them. They are lethal with narrow tires though. I try to avoid routes them, but when I do have to cross them I try to cross that at as close to 90 degrees as I can.

HivemindXX

On the existing stuff the only place I can think of where cyclists are put on the same bit of road is at St James' Hospital. In other places where the Luas is on road either cyclists should be using the road (as far as I know) or they are crossing the track at 90 degrees by design. At James' there is enough space to stay on the inside of the tracks and when the tracks turn across your path you have been diverted to the side where you are more or less forced to cross at right angles. Of course you are then 'off road' and therefore invisible to the cars turning in to the hospital but that's relatively standard for cycle paths. The fairly narrow strip you need to cycle along also has sunken grates which are very annoying to navigate when it has rained because you can't see where the big potholes are.

Some of the new infrastructure makes it more difficult to cross at 90 degrees, at least at the moment. When coming from Pearse Street on to College Green you are on the inside of the tracks and the barriers narrow the path and then cross the tracks at a shallow angle. When cycling alongside cars it can be quite difficult to take a sharp turn and cross the tracks. This is pretty much the definition of swerving. If there were no tracks here a cyclist would smoothly move out to pass the obstructions. With the tracks they can't and they have to jink out to get across one track and then do this again either right or left when they want to turn up Dame Street or head towards Nassau Street.

TheJak01

I lived in Edinburgh up until last year, and the tram tracks were an absolute menace to cyclists. So much so that I took longer routes and diversions, or even walked the bike if I was going to have to go along the tram tracks. I had a friend who has the exact same thing happen to him cycling along that same stretch, but was fortunate that there was no traffic behind him and he got off with just a bit of embarrassment. Tragic accident and I hope Edinburgh council manages to sort something to make this safer for cyclists without resorting to banning them.

It's really when you approach these tracks at less than 45 degrees that they become an issue. If you're careful you can navigate them safely, but even with a little bit of distraction can lead to problems. You would hope that something like this does act as a wake up call, not only to those in Edinburgh, but also the those here in Dublin to make the new luas tracks safely navigable for cyclists. This is obviously not a situation that we ever want to see repeated, especially if it can be made avoidable.

beauf

HivemindXX wrote: »

On the existing stuff the only place I can think of where cyclists are put on the same bit of road is at St James' Hospital.....t.

All the way through the IFSC and up to the point you cycle inline with the luas tracks. Though you can swing out onto the quays as an alternative.

kenmc

From the article linked in the OP, there's a link to another story (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-32899109) about potentially hundreds of claims from cyclists injuring themselves on luas tracks. Not trying to be glib, but how come we don't hear the same sort of complaints from places like Amsterdam?

I've not been there for a while but a quick look on google maps shows that they also have a channel running beneath the road surface for the trams, which seems to be similar to those we have here in Ireland and I presume in many places in the world. I'm just wondering if they have done something different that may have been omitted from ours. Anyone any ideas?

My own experience with luas tracks is that they are slippery when wet, much as a manhole or roadlines might be, and should be ridden with the bike as upright as possible and reduce the power you're putting through the pedals until you're past them. I encounter the ones on the green line between sandyford and central park daily, and they're pretty nasty in the wet as the road curves around to the left whereas they go straight on, so I tend to take the outside line of the traffic and not try to follow the sharp road curve around, with oftentimes heavy vehicles coming up behind me, it's the last place you want to slip and fall.

jon1981

kenmc wrote: »

Not trying to be glib, but how come we don't hear the same sort of complaints from places like Amsterdam?

To be fair Amsterdam is probably the most advanced city in the work for cycling. It has proper cycling infrastructure and cyclists are seen as 1st class citizens when it comes to road use. Also given that Amsterdam has had trams lines for decades I would imagine people know the risks & dangerous from a young age and how to cycle safely, it's just an evolved system.

Tram lines in dublin city centre are still relatively new, it will take time for people to get use to them, we also have far more people taking up cycling for the first time for commuting or leisure.

kenmc

jon1981 wrote: »

To be fair Amsterdam is probably the most advanced city in the work for cycling. It has proper cycling infrastructure and cyclists are seen as 1st class citizens when it comes to road use. Also given that Amsterdam has had trams lines for decades I would imagine people know the risks & dangerous from a young age and how to cycle safely, it's just an evolved system.

Tram lines in dublin city centre are still relatively new, it will take time for people to get use to them, we also have far more people taking up cycling for the first time for commuting or leisure.

Agreed, which is why i picked it; given the sheer numbers of cyclists, if cyclists and tramlines were an inherently dangerous combination, then Amsterdam would be a daily bloodbath - they have way more tramlines and way more cyclists than Dublin so the incident rate should be much higher. But it doesn't seem to be so, and I'm curious as to why. Is it really just common sense and wisdom passed down through the generations? Or is there something fundamentally different in the physical infrastructure?

jon1981

kenmc wrote: »

Is it really just common sense and wisdom passed down through the generations? Or is there something fundamentally different in the physical infrastructure?

I've been over there quite a few times. I think the signage is better, they even have traffic lights for cyclists, which they do obey, they do have hazard signs overhead to make people aware of the angle of crossing tram lines. Also the cycle lanes tend to be raised and everywhere, which helps.

I think it's also a combination of passing it down through the generations but also attitude, my perception is that they cycle more courteously, taking their time and not trying to overtake each other or weave in between traffic (again it helps when you have good cycle lanes). Also I think because there's a significant volume of modes of transport on the road (cars, trams, buses, walkers, bicycles) you have to go slower. One thing that stood out is the type of bicycle, would be rare to see people commuting on a road bike. Alot of high nelly kinds of bikes.

HivemindXX

Regarding Amsterdam, cyclists and trams, it is not necessarily safe to assume this is not an issue there. For all we know there are a bunch of people complaining about how dangerous they are, or perhaps they have been designed differently. Maybe those cyclists just know how to deal with tram tracks better but that's not necessarily the only explanation. Having said that I wasn't able to find any web pages (in English at least) where people were complaining about how dangerous the tram tracks were. I did find a few guides warning people to be careful around them as part of a list of things to watch out for.

I had a quick look and I found one study, which is unfortunately not very useful since it only looked at one hospital in Amsterdam so it is not possible to compare their results to the overall cycling injury numbers which they give.

In this study 10 cyclists were admitted to hospital after their wheels became stuck in the tram tacks (and I wonder if they excluded injuries where the wheel slipped on the wet surface of the track) and of those 1 died. This does show that cyclists do die as a result of tram track incidents even in Amsterdam. However the study stated in the preamble that 200 cyclists died in a year in the Netherlands as a whole. 1 out of 200 would not indicate to me a critical factor, but because the basis of the two figures don't match we don't know what percentage of cyclist deaths in Amsterdam are due to tram tracks. We do know it's more than 0 though. Ideally we'd know the total number of severe injuries across the city (not the 10,000 for the whole country) and how many of those were due to tram tracks (not just the 200 from a single hospital).

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272358662_Injuries_Due_to_Wedging_of_Bicycle_Wheels_in_On-road_Tram_Tracks

jon1981

200 deaths seems like a lot given the population of the Netherlands is 16.94m , whereas last year we had 10 out of a 4.6m... I guess the number of cyclists in the Netherlands must be a good multiple more than Ireland. Also Amsterdam has a population similar in size to Dublin, I wonder how the two cities compare in terms of deaths/injuries.

seamus

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That said if we are seeing such high accident rates, you have to ask why. Is the road design forcing cyclists into close proximity of track un-necessarily, are junctions badly designed, are there specific high volume cycling routes crossing tracks at specific locations that can be looked at etc.

I imagine the majority of injuries are occurring because of this:

kenmc wrote: »

they're pretty nasty in the wet as the road curves around to the left whereas they go straight on, so I tend to take the outside line of the traffic and not try to follow the sharp road curve around, with oftentimes heavy vehicles coming up behind me, it's the last place you want to slip and fall.

There are quite a few sections on all the lines where the road curves across straight tracks, or where the tracks curve and the road continues straight.

I expect these are the highest risk for coming off in front of other traffic, moreso than the getting the wheel getting stuck in the tracks, though I'm open to correction.

HivemindXX

jon1981 wrote: »

200 deaths seems like a lot given the population of the Netherlands is 16.94m , whereas last year we had 10 out of a 4.6m... I guess the number of cyclists in the Netherlands must be a good multiple more than Ireland. Also Amsterdam has a population similar in size to Dublin, I wonder how the two cities compare in terms of deaths/injuries.

I double checked and 200 is what the paper says. From a little bit of extra research is seems that they have 4 times our population and 10 times our cycling modal share (25% versus 2.4%). This makes a 20 times higher death toll seem reasonable I suppose. Allowing for huge numbers of unaccounted factors they have 40 times the amount of cycling and only 20 times the number of fatalities.

It seems that their traffic related per km death rate is higher than ours too (by around 10%) but their per population rate is significantly lower. This seems to tie in with the modal share numbers which would indicate there is less driving overall and therefore less driving related deaths.

SPDUB

HivemindXX wrote: »

Some of the new infrastructure makes it more difficult to cross at 90 degrees, at least at the moment. When coming from Pearse Street on to College Green you are on the inside of the tracks and the barriers narrow the path and then cross the tracks at a shallow angle. When cycling alongside cars it can be quite difficult to take a sharp turn and cross the tracks. This is pretty much the definition of swerving. If there were no tracks here a cyclist would smoothly move out to pass the obstructions. With the tracks they can't and they have to jink out to get across one track and then do this again either right or left when they want to turn up Dame Street or head towards Nassau Street.

Definitely had this issue with the current roadworks .

Partially caught my back wheel around College Green the other day because I couldn't cross at the right angle because of the roadworks

Chuchote

Cycling in Amsterdam you rarely encounter tram tracks unless you're crossing them at a 90% angle because of the design of the excellent cycleway network.

The following thanks to Google Translate and Chrome's automatic translation:

http://www.parool.nl/binnenland/fietsen-en-lopen-het-gevaarlijkst-in-amsterdam~a3832249/

Amsterdam tries for a "sustainably safe" network where cyclists, pedestrians and motor traffic are separated, yet in 2000-2011 28% of the 274 traffic fatalities rode a bicycle. Pedestrians were the second group, at 27%.

The percentage of deaths from car crashes in Amsterdam is actually lower than in Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht. Buses and trams in Amsterdam more often than in the other cities involved in accidents with fatalities.

Hospital data for the fatalities in Amsterdam mainly involves 25- to 35-year-olds and over-75s. Most deaths on roads and intersections that may be driven at 50km/h.

SWOV says that its analysis was hampered by the incomplete police records of traffic accidents since 2009. As a result, in many cases, the data on numbers of road injuries are incomplete. There are even fatal accidents that do not appear in statistics between 2009 and 2014.

Alderman Pieter Litjens writes in a letter to the council that Amsterdam has to be traffic safer. He points out that it is more crowded in the city, with relatively many vulnerable road users such as cyclists and pedestrians. 'In addition, the (cycle) paths are still shared with the ever-increasing group of (too) fast moving moped riders."