Road resurfaced from Glencree'ish to Sally gap.....

cython

Chuchote wrote: »

Assuming that Strava uses the same satellites and transponders as the phone system, finessing data won't do a hell of a lot of good at Powerscourt. I have a buddy who lives up that way, and her phone calls from her car (on handsfree) break down every day in two places: Powerscourt waterfall road and the Rocky Valley.

All well and good, but they don't use remotely the same telecoms infrastructure, so we can't assume that

Mobile phones use cell towers for reception, which are ground based. Satellites may relay signals, but they are not used directly by the device, so irrelevant in this context. GPS (and thus Strava) is entirely satellite based, so trees are more likely to cause reception issues than the conventional obstacles for phones. Mobile phones with GPS admittedly can use cell tower info, and local wifi network availability to supplement GPS signals, but this is optional, and used for rough positioning (and speeding up getting a fix initially), much less precise than GPS.

ED E

HivemindXX wrote: »

I don't understand why they don't just use the altitude data from their maps based on the x.y coordinates. This is for cycling and running not flying so we can be fairly confident that the users are at or close the ground. The only potential issue is bridges (are they on the bridge or under it) but that seems minor compared to taking the GPS receiver's word that the user is 30m above the ground.

I suspect its two factors:
A) Non homogenous: In Ireland you use the OSI (obviously), in the UK OS, in France its who knows? How about Vietnam? And on it goes
Moolah: Not all maps/GIS sources are free.

From a programming perspective crowd sourcing the data is universal. They could finesse the best fit approach though.

Chuchote

ED E wrote: »

Moolah: Not all maps/GIS sources are free.

Certainly true in Ireland, where money is king; I once went into the OSI and asked for a large-scale map of Glenasmole and was quoted €300. Managed to live without it.

jrar

Daroxtar wrote: »

Sorry lads, where exactly is this? If I head up Stocking lane past the viewing point and on to Kippure, is it on that stretch?
Really can't understand why they would use chip and seal when they were able to use nice smooth, evenly graded asphalt on the stretches on the way towards Laragh? I don't buy into the idea that our climate would adversely affect the asphalt when it is used extensively in harsher climates in the mountains in Spain and France.

Just back from rural France where admittedly some of the hill roads in the area I was staying were not brilliant, but the surface was packed tighter so a lot less work to overcome the surface (and the gradient) on some of the climbs.

N and D roads were all done to a very high standard, with minimal rolling resistance - went to Mont Ventoux where they recognise the value of cyclo-tourism to the extent that there is effectively a cycle lane from Chalet Reynard up to the mast, and constant reminders to cars to allow 1.5 metres to cyclists. Given the extremes of temperature in the course of a year that somewhere like Mont V. experiences, the "road building" efforts of our local CCs here are laughable !

Given the proximity to Dublin, Wicklow could be a veritable dream cycling destination with all sorts of economic knock-on effects. Yes, it would take investment such as rebuilding the military road with a proper base/surface, with planned viewing points for off-road stopping/parking, and maybe some small things such as good signposting/distance signs, and the likes of a "col" sign denoting places like the Sally Gap and showing the height ASL etc. ?

LennoxR

Was on the 'resurfaced' military road today. Lord god it's in bad shape. It's almost like riding off-road in places, and as someone here said, the strangest thing about it is that they recently did a very nice resurfacing job on sections of this road which have now been wrecked by what I like to call 'pebble dashing.'

But one thing gave me hope. There are now no road markings on the 'resurfaced' road. And there are signs saying 'loose chippings' and 'no road markings'.

Which would lead me to believe (naively?) that the current mess might be a temporary surface ahead of a comprehensive resurfacing job. Is it possible? I live in hope.

fepper

LennoxR wrote: »

Was on the 'resurfaced' military road today. Lord god it's in bad shape. It's almost like riding off-road in places, and as someone here said, the strangest thing about it is that they recently did a very nice resurfacing job on sections of this road which have now been wrecked by what I like to call 'pebble dashing.'

But one thing gave me hope. There are now now road markings on the 'resurfaced' road. And there are signs saying 'loose chippings' and 'no road markings'.

Which would lead me to believe (naively?) that the current mess might be a temporary surface ahead of a comprehensive resurfacing job. Is it possible? I live in hope.

They usually surfacedress again with the same dressing of pebbles and tar but the pebbles/stone usually sticks better to previous dressing and the road is better

LennoxR

fepper wrote: »

They usually surfacedress again with the same dressing of pebbles and tar but the pebbles/stone usually sticks better to previous dressing and the road is better

There's been no new tar put down so far, as far as I can see. I really hope they do seal it properly because as a cycling route now it's pretty grim. Can't imagine it's much fun to drive either.

lissard

About the only thing good you can say about the new surface is that it has plenty of grip. There is so much f-ing rolling resistance. Went up to the gap yesterday morning and between the wind and the surface it felt like a much tougher challenge than before.

LpPepper

How is the surface now, anyone? Plan on heading up there today...

fader123

I went up to Kippure via the Featherbeds on Sunday - not quite as far as the gap. It is quite gritty which makes for more rolling resistance on the climb as lissard said. Descent (to the peace and reconciliation centre) was fine, there is some gravel in the ditch but it's not too bad - I tend to take it fairly handy anyway coming downhill, but no issues with losing traction or anything like that.

Mercian Pro

Found this explanation of why surface dressing (tar & chippings) is used on another forum. The source is a road engineer in Kerry:

"The type of surfacing materials and why we dont use Asphalt on all our Roads is a commonly asked question. There are a number of reasons why Surface Dressing is still the most used riding surface.

1. All Local Authorities must comply with national Guidelines developed by both the NRA and the DOEHLG in relation to Road

construction depths and materials and surface finish which is the critical element as it provides skid resistance. The only surface

finish acceptable on non urban roads is either surface dressing or asphalt in order to achieve the required Skid Resistance.

2. Asphalt is a very rigid material and is not a suitable surfacing material unless the Road structure underneath is to a high standard

and the underlying ground conditions are also good. For example Asphalt on a peat subgrade would not be a good design as the

asphalt would crack when the Road would flex. As almost 30% of our Roads in Kerry are built on Peat subgrades you can

immediately see the problem.

3. We are in fact surfacing our National Primary and National Secondary roads in Kerry with Asphalt wherever ground conditions

are suitable even though this product is not manufactured in the County and obviously this has financial implications due to

haulage costs.

4. As Asphalt is imported into the County pimarily from Clare and Cork there can be a significant time span between manufacture

and laying and in cool weather the laying temp of the material may drop below the specified laying Temp. Consequently Asphalt

can only be laid during the summer months when ambient Temps are relatively high or the material may break up.

All road making materials have advantages and disadvantages and cost is certainly not the critical issue. I can assure you that Road surfacing is not as simple as it looks and in Kerry we assess all projects to determine the most suitable materials to use.

You will I think see a greater use of Asphalt in the County where the Road structure and subgrade allow but surface dressing on clause 804 material or stabilised wetmix will continue on Local Roads for the foreseable future for the reasons outlined

I trust the above clarifies the issue to some extent."

The Noble Nudge

LennoxR wrote: »

Was on the 'resurfaced' military road today. Lord god it's in bad shape. It's almost like riding off-road in places, and as someone here said, the strangest thing about it is that they recently did a very nice resurfacing job on sections of this road which have now been wrecked by what I like to call 'pebble dashing.'

But one thing gave me hope. There are now no road markings on the 'resurfaced' road. And there are signs saying 'loose chippings' and 'no road markings'.

Which would lead me to believe (naively?) that the current mess might be a temporary surface ahead of a comprehensive resurfacing job. Is it possible? I live in hope.

The same signs "25kmh"&"loose chippings" are still up on poles around Devils Elbow more than a year after they pebble dashed that section....

LennoxR

The Noble Nudge wrote: »

The same signs "25kmh"&"loose chippings" are still up on poles around Devils Elbow more than a year after they pebble dashed that section....

Doh

The Noble Nudge

Went up that way this evening to remind myself...
Why do such a job and make the road worse than what it was before they pebble dashed it?
No improvement whatsoever.

RobertFoster

Must be more works going on today. There were cones across the road and a van at the turn between Gelncree and Lough Bray, diverting traffic left.

The full wall still hurts btw

The Noble Nudge

Fingers crossed for nice smooth tarmac!

Luxman

RobertFoster wrote: »

Must be more works going on today. There were cones across the road and a van at the turn between Gelncree and Lough Bray, diverting traffic left.

The full wall still hurts btw

Where exactly is the full wall on your detour? That guy let us up towards the gap but the paintwork on the bike was at risk. Slow going

Lumen

Discovered this morning that the Poggio has been resurfaced with extra excitement.

It goes all the way to the top so won't surprise anyone.

RobertFoster

Luxman wrote: »

Where exactly is the full wall on your detour? That guy let us up towards the gap but the paintwork on the bike was at risk. Slow going

https://www.strava.com/segments/9408001

Left from the Military Rd (R115), then left again onto Deakins Ln, right when you get to Oonagh Bridge. Deakins Ln is one step above a cow path, very narrow with lots of gravel and potholes.

Plastik

Loose chippings all around the Lough Bray bend and then from Kippure to Sally Gap.

Section of loose chippings at Ballinastoe.

And as above, the Poggio has also been done.

ximo

Plastik wrote: »

Loose chippings all around the Lough Bray bend and then from Kippure to Sally Gap.

Section of loose chippings at Ballinastoe.

And as above, the Poggio has also been done.

I was there today. It's horrible. Don't go unless you like to change tyres often

monkeyslayer

Same resurfacing done to the lovers leap descent, it's lethal. Lovely smooth resurfacing on the hill after the waterfall has also been ré redone with little stones. Also lethal. Whoever that engineer is in Wicklow cc, he really hates cyclists.

Plastik

Anyone know how Slievemaan and Brown Mountain are for chippings?

LennoxR

It's really nuts, I can't understand it. They are actually making the road surfaces considerably worse and more dangerous (and not only for cyclists, although it may be worse for us). What are they thinking of?

Alek

Anyone know how Slievemaan and Brown Mountain are for chippings?

Brown Mountain was fine 2 weeks ago, Slievemann full of chips on the southern side. Better climb from there and descend towards Shay Elliot.

Panjandrums

This post has been deleted.

RacoonQueen

More random spots of loose chippings Glencree to Sally Gap today - thankfully thats the way I go up. Would not like to be coming down on that. Went up the same way on the 'new' surface last week and they seem to have laid more chippings down on what they put down a few weeks ago.
Hope they plan to lay tarmac over all that...the 'settled' part of it aint fun either.

They've done the same thing coming out of Maynooth into Kilcock...was awful to cycle on that last week too.

NeedMoreGears

I was up sally gap yesterday on the gravelled section, just at the spot where cars park above the lake. I hear a hissing sound and stop thinking I'm punctured. Tires are ok but when I start off the front wheel got stuck in the gravel. I must have gone slightly off the road itself but couldn't tell because of all the chips. I fell over doing about 2kph and managed to really hurt my hand. Nothing broken, just heavy bruising and I couldn't really hold the handlebars for quite a while.

The council should at least sweep the road. No more chips are going to embed themselves into the surface now. Needless to say I took it very handy up the rest of the way.

secman

Would love to hear RSA view on this, Cycling Ireland 's view too. RSA have spent a bit of money on adverts recently and remain quiet about this type of road dressing. Wexford CC use it extensively too, there's a bad bend 200m from my place and last week it was top dressed on this manner, it's dangerous for cars too.
If a lorry shed a load of gravel unintentionally on a road... AA roadwatch would issue an advisory warning to take care on that stretch.
Lunacy

ximo

secman wrote: »

Would love to hear RSA view on this, Cycling Ireland 's view too. RSA have spent a bit of money on adverts recently and remain quiet about this type of road dressing. Wexford CC use it extensively too, there's a bad bend 200m from my place and last week it was top dressed on this manner, it's dangerous for cars too.
If a lorry shed a load of gravel unintentionally on a road... AA roadwatch would issue an advisory warning to take care on that stretch.
Lunacy

I had to learn what that "road dressing" is. You don't find such thing in my country. It looks like it consists of a thin layer of sticky material (asphalt?) with another layer of chips that should all (or most of them get glued) to that sticky layer. The surface is crap, but it's very fast and super cheap. The road is ready for use very quickly.

But what they did in there is not that. There is a 5-10 cm of lose chips. They lay lose during many weeks or even months?
Therefore it's not quick, it's dangerous and produces very poor resuls in mid-long term.
I agree, they just hate cyclists. Or road users in general.