12 years for ex-shinner

Phoebas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF didn't see the IRA as 'terrorists'. There are a few people who need to get over that fact.

That's exactly the point. Every other party and throughout civic society, they were roundly regarded as terrorists.

That's what sets SF apart.

FrancieBrady

Phoebas wrote: »

That's exactly the point. Every other party and throughout civic society, they were roundly regarded as terrorists.

That's what sets SF apart.

The implication being that anyone who sees the use of the term 'terrorist' as simplistic is un-civic?
All armies use terror, all armies are therefore 'terrorist'.

Phoebas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The implication being that anyone who sees the use of the term 'terrorist' as simplistic is un-civic?
All armies use terror, all armies are therefore 'terrorist'.

You, and SF, could be right* that the IRA weren't terrorists and all other parties and civic society are wrong about them.
But the point stands that that sets SF apart.


(* you aren't)

FrancieBrady

Phoebas wrote: »

You, and SF, could be right* that the IRA weren't terrorists and all other parties and civic society are wrong about them.
But the point stands that that sets SF apart.


(* you aren't)

'Apart' for what though...parties born from exactly the same circumstances?

Time to get over the fact we had a conflict/war here maybe?

Phoebas

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Apart' for what though...parties born from exactly the same circumstances?

Time to get over the fact we had a conflict/war here maybe?

'Apart' from everybody except SF.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Apart' for what though...parties born from exactly the same circumstances?

Time to get over the fact we had a conflict/war here maybe?

what you describe as a war was nothing more than a campaign of terror against innocent civilians.

feargale

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Time to get over the fact we had a conflict/war here maybe?

Tell that to the maimed and bereaved.

LordSutch

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

... I like Mary lou and yer man in Donegan.

Mary Lou is full of loud mouthed in yer face hollow sound bites!
...but at least she wasn't mixed up in terrorism, like some of her fellow SF colleagues.

FrancieBrady

feargale wrote: »

Tell that to the maimed and bereaved.

They are the reason you should get over the fact that the conflict/war is over.
Not all the bereaved blame one side only, not all were bereaved by one side.
But carry on taking it out on one side.

LordSutch

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The implication being that anyone who sees the use of the term 'terrorist' as simplistic is un-civic?
All armies use terror, all armies are therefore 'terrorist'.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF didn't see the IRA as 'terrorists'. There are a few people who need to get over that fact.

Planting bombs in pubs, clubs, buses & trains, in shops & cars which kill & maim people can only be called Terrorism, there is no other word for it. Shooting off duty policemen, knee capping young lads & strapping people into vehicles loaded with semtex 'on a one way journey' to hell is also terrorism.
Armed Bank robberies (North & South), post office raids, killing Gardai, torture, blackmail, smuggling, gun running, kidnappings & extortion, money laundering - Making people disappear -

And all in the name of a "United" Ireland

Of course it was Terrorism, but did it hasted the Unity of the island, or delay it?

FrancieBrady

LordSutch wrote: »

Planting bombs in pubs, clubs, buses & trains, in shops & cars which kill & maim people can only be called Terrorism, there is no other word for it. Shooting off duty policemen, knee capping young lads & strapping people into vehicles loaded with semtex 'on a one way journey' to hell is also terrorism.
Armed Bank robberies (North & South), post office raids, killing Gardai, torture, blackmail, smuggling, gun running, kidnappings & extortion, money laundering - Making people disappear -

And all in the name of a "United" Ireland

Of course it was Terrorism, but did it hasted the Unity of the island, or delay it?

The conflict/war like all conflict/wars was about terror. Correct.

Armies, from the design of their uniforms to their display of weaponry are for inspiring terror.

Ask anyone in the middle east.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are the reason you should get over the fact that the conflict/war is over.
Not all the bereaved blame one side only, not all were bereaved by one side.
But carry on taking it out on one side.

the "war" may be over but its effects are still being felt. I'm sure SF would like us all to quietly forget about it. I can guarantee you that we wont.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the "war" may be over but its effects are still being felt. I'm sure SF would like us all to quietly forget about it. I can guarantee you that we wont.

You think some of those most affected by the conflict/war want to 'forget' it.


Brilliant.

You probably come from the demographic who ignored what was going on in the first place and who now only wants to remember and recriminate the actions of one side. Soooo predictable.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You think some of those most affected by the conflict/war want to 'forget' it.


Brilliant.

You probably come from the demographic who ignored what was going on in the first place and who now only wants to remember and recriminate the actions of one side. Soooo predictable.

SF are quite keen for us to forget their links with terrorism. thankfully people have long memories.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

SF are quite keen for us to forget their links with terrorism. thankfully people have long memories.

They keep the same leaders they had right through the conflict even though that gives every lazy assed journalist and politician, and internet warrior the oppurtunity to endlessly and pointlessly have a pop and they are 'keen for us to forget'.

You are the gift that keeps giving (or maybe you are as usual just irrationally suiting yourself)...carry on. :rolleyes:

Red_Wake

Explains why SF were against the water charges!

Cazale

They have both been removed from the Republican landing in Portlaoise tonight.

Persephone kindness

Cazale wrote: »

They have both been removed from the Republican landing in Portlaoise tonight.

Is that to do with this BS?

http://irpwa.com/statement-republican-prisoners-portlaoise-solidarity-protest/

http://www.irsp.ie/news/?p=1145

They are a load of **** :mad:

Cazale

Persephone kindness wrote:

Is that to do with this BS?

No. It's to do with the nature of their convictions and who they are associated with I imagine.

Persephone kindness

Cazale wrote: »

No. It's to do with the nature of their convictions and who they are associated with I imagine.

You they don't want them to communicate with other republican inmates etc? Not sure i understand sorry

Ash.J.Williams

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Is that to do with this BS?

http://irpwa.com/statement-republican-prisoners-portlaoise-solidarity-protest/

http://www.irsp.ie/news/?p=1145

They are a load of **** :mad:

Gobsh1tes

tomwaterford

Cazale wrote: »

They have both been removed from the Republican landing in Portlaoise tonight.

Good to hear

BalcombeSt4

Phoebas wrote: »

That's exactly the point. Every other party and throughout civic society, they were roundly regarded as terrorists.

That's what sets SF apart.

I didn't regard them as terrorists. No doubt they did some horrible things but so has every belligrent force in every major war.

The British Army carried out the Falls massacre, the Pitchfork killings, Ballymurphy massacre, Newry bank killings, Bloody Sunday, The murder of Eamon McDevvit, a deaf & dumb mute,the Springhill massacre, the New lodge Six killings, Dunloy, 14 civilians were killed during the Lenadoon avenue battles.....
Then there was the shoot-to-kill policy killings, The Military Reaction force (MRF), the Stalker shootings, Kesh ambush, Gransha hospital, Loughgall, Gibraltar, Drummnakilley, Coagh, Clonoe....
Then all the Loyalist massacres & activity they've been accussed of helping or directing, Dublin 1972, Dublin & Monaghan, The Littlejohn brothers, Dublin airport bombing, Belturbet, Kays Tavern, Pat finucane, Milltown, Avenue bar shooting, Cappagh, Sean Grahams & James murray's bookmakers, Loughinisland, Conway's bar, Miami Showband, well i'd just be here all day.

If this was any other organization they'd be accused of terroism. And thats just peanuts to the stuff they did in places like Kenya, India & other former imperial properties. Dublin even managed to grow a pair of balls to bring them to the European court of human rights for torturing internees.

Wheeliebin30

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I didn't regard them as terrorists. No doubt they did some horrible things but so has every belligrent force in every major war.

The British Army carried out the Falls massacre, the Pitchfork killings, Ballymurphy massacre, Newry bank killings, Bloody Sunday, The murder of Eamon McDevvit, a deaf & dumb mute,the Springhill massacre, the New lodge Six killings, Dunloy, 14 civilians were killed during the Lenadoon avenue battles.....
Then there was the shoot-to-kill policy killings, The Military Reaction force (MRF), the Stalker shootings, Kesh ambush, Gransha hospital, Loughgall, Gibraltar, Drummnakilley, Coagh, Clonoe....
Then all the Loyalist massacres & activity they've been accussed of helping or directing, Dublin 1972, Dublin & Monaghan, The Littlejohn brothers, Dublin airport bombing, Belturbet, Kays Tavern, Pat finucane, Milltown, Avenue bar shooting, Cappagh, Sean Grahams & James murray's bookmakers, Loughinisland, Conway's bar, Miami Showband, well i'd just be here all day.

If this was any other organization they'd be accused of terroism. And thats just peanuts to the stuff they did in places like Kenya, India & other former imperial properties. Dublin even managed to grow a pair of balls to bring them to the European court of human rights for torturing internees.

So can we agree both were horrible murdering terrorists so?

Phoebas

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I didn't regard them as terrorists.

And that sets you apart - the vast majority of parties, civic society organisations and people did and do regard them as terrorists.

You seem to have a very fluid view of what is and what isn't terrorism, but I guess that's part and parcel or being an IRA sympathiser.

zoobizoo

How soon would they return to violence if Sinn Fein didn't get elected?

BalcombeSt4

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So can we agree both were horrible murdering terrorists so?

If you want be consistent in your outrage I think you have to.

BalcombeSt4

Phoebas wrote: »

And that sets you apart - the vast majority of parties, civic society organisations and people did and do regard them as terrorists.

You seem to have a very fluid view of what is and what isn't terrorism, but I guess that's part and parcel or being an IRA sympathiser.

Vast majority of people I've ever met didn't regard them as terrorists either. People in the media now that was different I grant you that, but you had section 31 so it's not a great tool to measure. Adams first appreance on the Late Show got a lot of support from the audience and that was suppose to be at time when Republican support was at an all time low.

No I don't actually. I think the word "terrorism" has just been devalued of any meaning. I was just pointing out if you consider the IRA a terrorist organization you'd have to consider the British Army as one as well if you want to be consistent in your opposition to "terror" & most people just aren't.
I never considered the Viet Cong, ANC or PLO as "terrorists" either for example, to me they were fighting a just liberation struggle. I mean the US backed, financed & trained some of the most brutal, murderers in history like the Taliban or the right-wing paramilitaries in central America who carried out the genocide of the Mayans. We were told the Taliban were brave "Freedom Fighters" in the 80's when they were fighting the Russians & evil "terrorists" in the 2000's when they were fighting NATO.

Rumpy Pumpy

Is this 'good Republican' still bunking in the executive landing down in Portlaoise?

Jesus Wept

Seems like a bit of banter that got put of hand.

end of the road

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Is this 'good Republican' still bunking in the executive landing down in Portlaoise?

he is not a republican, never mind a good republican.

Are Am Eye

Jesus Wept wrote: »

Seems like a bit of banter that got put of hand.

There may have been drink involved (water)

end of the road

a

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what you describe as a war was nothing more than a campaign of terror against innocent civilians.

correct, by the rucba and loyalists. the ira did kill civilians and while we must condemn such killings, it was not ira policy to target civilians unlike the rucba and loyalists.

LordSutch wrote: »

Planting bombs in pubs, clubs, buses & trains, in shops & cars which kill & maim people can only be called Terrorism, there is no other word for it. Shooting off duty policemen, knee capping young lads & strapping people into vehicles loaded with semtex 'on a one way journey' to hell is also terrorism.
Armed Bank robberies (North & South), post office raids, killing Gardai, torture, blackmail, smuggling, gun running, kidnappings & extortion, money laundering - Making people disappear -

And all in the name of a "United" Ireland

Of course it was Terrorism, but did it hasted the Unity of the island, or delay it?

the rucba and loyalists also caried out the same acts.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

correct, by the rucba and loyalists. the ira did kill civilians and while we must condemn such killings, it was not ira policy to target civilians unlike the rucba and loyalists.

Sure that made incidents like dividing factory workers by their religion and shooting the Protestants at Kingsmill fine so. Or the use of incendiary devices at La Mon which meant most victims were burned alive. 'Twasn't policy like?

end of the road wrote: »

the rucba and loyalists also caried out the same acts.

Could you outline the incidents of proxy bombing carried out by "rucba"?

Thanks.

Persephone kindness

end of the road wrote: »

a


correct, by the rucba and loyalists. the ira did kill civilians and while we must condemn such killings, it was not ira policy to target civilians unlike the rucba and loyalists.



the rucba and loyalists also caried out the same acts.

So ??? Who cares??? Killing people is not normal???

None of it is normal. Parades with face masks. Attacks even revenge attacks who says oh my Dad died ...gotta go kill now.

I'm sorry but these people are freaks. All of them.

ALL OF THEM...

Like 'I don't kill people I just march with a face mask on' THAT IS YOUR STANDARD?

The people of the north both sides need to be told a home truth of two. Mainly that a lot of them are acting like scumbags. Not just on the extreme level. Who paints big assed mural on walls ?? WTF??

It's WEIRD!

I used to think all NI people where freaks both sides ..until i met started to meet them and realized they all thought those people were freaks too.

If you have ever worn a face mask outside you are a weird weird person.

ohnonotgmail

end of the road wrote: »

a


correct, by the rucba and loyalists. the ira did kill civilians and while we must condemn such killings, it was not ira policy to target civilians unlike the rucba and loyalists.



the rucba and loyalists also caried out the same acts.

tell that to the 2 children killed in warrington. you are familiar with that i assume?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks

FrancieBrady

Persephone kindness wrote: »

So ??? Who cares??? Killing people is not normal???

Actually, it has been normal since the dawn of time and is even continuing to this day by one of the parties to our own conflict/war.
Namely the British, who have always killed in pursuit of their aims.

Persephone kindness

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Actually, it has been normal since the dawn of time and is even continuing to this day by one of the parties to our own conflict/war.
Namely the British, who have always killed in pursuit of their aims.

Do you realize what you are saying is kind of strange?

Persephone kindness

I can never have a rational conversation with anyone who sympathizes with SF ..they are on another planet...you are better off giving up. They are weird. Half of this stuff is in their heads.

FrancieBrady

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Do you realize what you are saying is kind of strange?

No. Realistic but nothing strange if you open your eyes. When was killing people not 'normal' in pursuit of aims? I'm all ears.


*This in no way suggests I condone the killing of people.

Persephone kindness

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No. Realistic but nothing strange if you open your eyes. When was killing people not 'normal' in pursuit of aims? I'm all ears.


*This in no way suggests I condone the killing of people.

What are you talking about?

Persephone kindness

The British Army isn't killing anyone ...so what are you talking about?

Farmer Ed

What was the guy they water boarded supposed to have done? Not saying I condone what they did but would like to know what was their excuse for doing it?

FrancieBrady

Persephone kindness wrote: »

The British Army isn't killing anyone ...so what are you talking about?

Not just at the moment..maybe not. But they have done, many times since our conflict/war ended and will do again...in pursuit of their aims around the world.

I am still waiting for you demonstrate when killing people was not 'normal' in the world.

Persephone kindness

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not just at the moment..maybe not. But they have done, many times since our conflict/war ended and will do again...in pursuit of their aims around the world.

I am still waiting for you demonstrate when killing people was not 'normal' in the world.

Now.

Persephone kindness

As in if you kill your neighbor today I assure you people will think it's not normal. They would think you were weird.

FrancieBrady

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Now.

Nobody is being killed now? :eek:

Farmer Ed

Persephone kindness wrote: »

The British Army isn't killing anyone ...so what are you talking about?

Not defending violence on any side here and this might be seen as an unpopular thing to say after the terrible attacks in the UK. But he sort of has a point. Yes people around the would are still being killed everyday in the name of freedom. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39598979

FrancieBrady

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Not defending violence on any side here and this might be seen as an unpopular thing to say after the terrible attacks in the UK. But he sort of has a point. Yes people around the would are still being killed everyday in the pursuit of aims, whatever they may be.

Slightly amended that to be more precise.

Persephone kindness

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody is being killed now? :eek:

Not usually. No. It's unusual for people to be killed in ROI. We're lucky. Because we have learnt to be normal.