Royal Canal on a Road Bike

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040989#Comment_121040989

Ah hear Google don't be acting the b0//ox with your smart azz autocorrect 😂🙈 Upated, my apologies!

Also, I changed one of the photos. More detail nearer to the bridge. Great to see substantial progress in a short space of "Irish" time.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121040989#Comment_121040989

To be fair, I've been cycling up and down there for years and have never had any trouble. Cant say its pleasant, and I understand where you coming from- it is a bit isolated and has a few sketchy looking characters - but I've never had the slightest bit of trouble there.

Tombo2001

From the 12th lock to Maynooth; how much of that is currently in cycle path at present?

g0g

Is from Hazelhatch in to Park West ish all grand on road bike?

buffalo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050077#Comment_121050077

Almost none. One long stretch at Leixlip is tarmac (between Confey and Louisa Bridge), and one short stretch is compact grit (from R449 overbridge to Deey bridge/Collinstown level crossing).

Peeling1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050077#Comment_121050077

Very little from 12th Lock to Leixlip Confey…. plans in place but it’ll be quite some time again it’s done. Most of it is passable on a gravel / mountain bike at 20kmph. Most of Leixlip Confey to Maynooth is the same bar the newly finished surface, slightly better than the previous stretch. I understand it’s next on KCC’s to do list.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050186#Comment_121050186

That's the Grand Canal rather than the Royal canal.

However, from Hazelhatch to Adamstown is a dirt trail through grass. From Adamstown to Park West is a good tarmac surface.

benneca1

Proposal in new byelaws to limit speed of bicycles to 20 Kmh. Still time to commrnt on waterways ireland page

RunDMC

The draft I read states a speed limit of 15kph for bicycle, tricycles and powered personal transport.

It also removes the short-term exemption from the camping prohibition. So no more tents on canal property.

R

benneca1

That’s right anyone who can should submit a comment For speed limit it is silly as bicycles don’t have speedometers is ridiculously low and not enforcable. For camping the question I would ask is has camping become a health and safety or environmental issuy that needs to be regulated

IstvaanV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064794#Comment_121064794

My bike (Cannondale Topstone Neo Carbon 4 Gravel Electric Bike 2021) has a speedometer, the motor cuts out at 27kph so I would be looking for that as a minimum speed limit.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064891#Comment_121064891

None of my bikes have speedometers. I wouldn't be looking for any speed limit.

How would you suggest this speed limit is enforced?

Instead, why not implement a hierarchy of users, like in the UK, with pedestrians at the top.

IstvaanV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064916#Comment_121064916

I don't suggest any speed limit for cyclists. That would be ridiculous.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065018#Comment_121065018

I took your first post to mean that you want 27kph as the speed limit.

What were you saying?

IstvaanV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065033#Comment_121065033

I was saying that the motor on my ebike cuts out when the speed of 25.7kmh is achieved (I just typoed the speed before). It is a pending EU regulation, any ebike faster than that will require registration, insurance and tax. I bought the bike in 2021 after researching laws around speed limits for ebikes as I cycle commute and wanted a pedal assist gravel bike to get to work etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/08/03/electric-bikes-and-e-scooters-with-top-speeds-of-25kmh-to-be-exempt-from-regulation/

My possibly vague point was that I would be moving faster than that pretty much at all times, any speed limit below 25km would be contrary to the EU regulation that is about to come into effect.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065063#Comment_121065063

Just because the EU have put an upper speed limit on ebikes, I don't think that means anything with regards to by laws about the speed of bikes on any particular path or track.

It wouldn't be contravening the regulations.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying again.

buffalo

I think they're saying (and I'd agree with) that legal e-bikes assist the rider up to a speed of 25km/h by default (and none that I've ridden allow you to adjust that downwards). So anybody who is riding an e-bike would often be going around that speed. Therefore it would be a bit silly to have a speed limit of 20km/h because an increasing number of riders would be vilified just for riding an e-bike.

loyatemu

you can ride an eBike slower than 25km/h. But the idea of a bike speed limit is daft - I assume it's some sort of liability/insurance thing, there's no way of enforcing it.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121066486#Comment_121066486

You can but how can you tell you are if the don't have a speedometer which I thin most e-bikes don't.

KevRossi

15 km/h is a bit daft. When cycling I'd be around 20 km/h with no effort. This is on an e-bike. A bit of effort easily gets me up to 24-26 km/h.

I'm not sure of the point of it, you'd be better off going for people cycling recklessly. Or better still have a river/canal police like in other countries and patrol the rivers/canals properly. For illegal fires, littering, anti-social behaviour etc.

01Surveyor

I just submitted the following comment on the waterway Ireland site, in case its of help to anyone the relevant Bye Law is quoted below. I copied the comment into several boxes as I wasnt clear which was the appropriate location for the comment.

(10) Prohibited Activity on canal property

No person shall; 

(n) Exceed a speed of 15 kilometres per hour on any bicycle, tricycle or powered personal transporter while using any greenway.

As bicycles (particularly those likely to be used on the canal paths) do not usualy have speedometers nor is there any legal requirement for any bicycle to be fitted with a speedometer, how then are cyclists to know what speed they are doing. 15kmph may be much too fast in certain circumstances, e.g where there are groups, particularly of children, using the pathway, in other circumstances speeds in excess of 15kmph may be acceptable e.g when traveling on the canal path in the early morning when the pathway is deserted. What is required is responsible and appropriate use of the canal pathways by all users. The stipulation of aa arbitrary and unenforceable speed limit will not achieve anything,

Flinty997

Pointless rules. They should just have a vague one about dangerous cycling that allows them to kick anyone acting the muppet that they see.

loyatemu

Assumed liability - if you hit a pedestrian it's your fault unless you can prove otherwise. If 2 cyclists collide, whoever has the fanciest bike is the winner.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103796#Comment_121103796

Which one is fanciest?

FinnC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103821#Comment_121103821

Both are shite looking imo!

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/Feljin_J/status/1706940129321848912

https://twitter.com/Feljin_J/status/1706940131028943181

---

Mercian Pro

My submission on the proposed Waterways Ireland Bye-Laws:

"Bye-Law 10 Prohibited Activity on canal property includes (n) Exceed a speed of 15 kilometres per hour on any bicycle, tricycle or powered personal transporter while using any greenway.

If implemented, this prohibition will render the Canal Greenways totally useless for any serious long-distance or touring cyclist. I have regularly cycled the Mullingar to Maynooth sections of the Royal Canal Greenway and also completed the full Cloondra to Dublin route in a day. At all times I have been concious of the need to slow down and use my bell when approaching pedestrians and have never received one complaint about my behavior.

The Maynooth to Mullingar section of the RCG is a key part of the proposed Dublin to Galway Greenway and also of EuroVelo Route 2 that will eventually run from Moscow to Galway. I am not aware of any other section of this or other EuroVelo route that is subject to such a restrictive speed limit.

Completion of the RCG between Maynooth and Dublin in conjunction with the relevant Councils should be a major priority for Waterways Ireland. Once this is completed, it will become a significant bike commuter route in both directions given the extent of housing, education and employment opportunities along its length. This should result in a major shift away from unsustainable forms of transport with consequential environmental benefits. Implementing a speed limit of 15km/h will seriously undermine the usefulness and attractiveness of this section for commuting cyclists in particular. I am not as familiar with the Grand Canal Greenway or Barrow Line but imagine my concerns are equally applicable there also."

getoutadodge

"Completion of the RCG between Maynooth and Dublin in conjunction with the relevant Councils should be a major priority for Waterways Ireland. Once this is completed, it will become a significant bike commuter route in both directions given the extent of housing, education and employment opportunities along its length. This should result in a major shift away from unsustainable forms of transport with consequential environmental benefits. Implementing a speed limit of 15km/h will seriously undermine the usefulness and attractiveness of this section for commuting cyclists in particular. I am not as familiar with the Grand Canal Greenway or Barrow Line but imagine my concerns are equally applicable there also.""

Agree with this but I suspect the nimbys especially along the Deep Sinking section will prevail. Just stall it long enough until the next recession and then the funds will dry up. As regards the proposed 15 km limit it's more aspirational than realistic. Who would enforce it? I tend to average 20 k if the path is clear but am very conscious of pedestrians and always slow down and give them a wide berth. An old fashioned bicycle bell works wonders especially when approaching from behind. However, I often see scooters in particular zooming along at over 30 k. No wonder pedestrians are pissed off. At that speed they can do some serious damage. You can't legislate common sense and courtesy.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167912#Comment_121167912

On the speed thing, even though its unenforceable, if it's passed, it becomes a stick to beat you with, and all the worse because it's unenforceable

Flinty997

Speed limit is a joke.

If there's a problem with "budget" on the deepsinking, it because they've completely over engineered it.

The minimum it needs to be is a simple level path.

Whereas now it involves, flyover, walls, fences, opening up alleyways, making a park, cantilevered walkways, lights. Left alone they'd squeeze another childrens hospital out of it.

Mercian Pro

The new bridge on the canal at the 3rd lock near Binn's Bridge. Still plenty of work left to do on this section before it reopens next year.

Citizen Six

Saw they’ve launched consultation for the next section, up from Des Kelly’s. Seem to reclaiming a section of the canal to extend the width of the path.

buffalo

I heard from someone who was in a meeting with WI yesterday that they've scrapped the speed limit idea (though others in the meeting weren't pleased)

01Surveyor

I decided to take advantage of the the good forecast for today and did the loop from the city to Ardclough on the Grand, and back through Celbridge and leixlip via the Royal today. The forecast turned out to be wrong with heavy mist throughout the trip making conditions fairly miserable.

The stretch from the 12th lock to Hazelhatch was really wet and muddy and I found it difficult to maintain enough speed to blast through the muck and eventually lost momentum and went down, otherwise the Grand was fine.

The return journey on the Royal was uneventful until I got to The Deepsinking with the middle and end section so bad they were dangerous.The middle and highest section, which has the heaviest concentration of exposed tree roots and rock, was lethal as the path was covered with leaves making it difficult to pick your way through the hazzards, the path seems to have become very narrow and was very slippery. I eventually lost my nerve and walked the worst part of the mid section. I remounted for the last section and very nearly got caught out by one of the three drainage channels on the canal side, these seem to have encroached further into the pathway, with one taking up at least half the width of the already narrow path.

Im a big fan of the Deepsinking and have cycled it dozens of times, and fallen (not into the canal!) several time so Im not a complete coward, but it was so dangerous today, and for the first time ever, I didnt enjoy it. I think there may be a need to post warning signs on the Deepsinking as sadly it seems to have become 'an accident waiting to happen'.

Despite the miserable weather, and poor cycling conditions, any trip on the canal is better than one just about anywhere else.

Mercian Pro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402687#Comment_121402687

Not sure if they are still there but there certainly used to be "No Cycling" signs at the Deep Sinking. For years I ignored them but a while back I decided it just wasn't worth the risk any more. Even walking there when it's wet is no joy with slippery roots, rocks and those drainage gullys.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420757#Comment_121420757

That's just them covering their ass really, isn't it?

blackvalley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121421120#Comment_121421120

Exactly. Bet that whoever decided on that signage never pedalled a bike in their life.

01Surveyor

I didnt notice the sign(s) on this trip, I also confess that I did see them in the past and treated them in much the same way as I have the "Cylcists Dismount" signs elsewhere on the canal, my assumption being that these were intended to rightly give priority to pedestrians and that if there were no pedestrians there was no harm done by cycling, provided I dismounted to give right of way whenever I met a pedestrian.

I think the Deep Sinking now warants a DANGER! warning, particuarly in winter.

blackvalley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423112#Comment_121423112

Are people not capable of looking at and evaluating a situation without the need for warning signs . One wouldn’t have to be Einstein to realise that cycling on a muddy, stony track , criss crossing by tree roots, very close to a steep drop requires some caution. Anyone incapable of reading the situation for themselves should not be allowed out with a bike in the first place.

01Surveyor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426802#Comment_121426802

I agree with you, however the approach from the public road to the Deep Sinking is OK its only when you get a couple of hundred meters into it that you realise how bad it is. If the signs are still there I think they need to mention the something like "Danger of falling" and or the symbol you often see on road signs showing a car (a bicycle would be good!) driving off the edge of an unprotected quay.

mattser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121420757#Comment_121420757

Met a clown with 2 loose German Shepherds on that stretch recently. There's no sign made to deal with that type.

blackvalley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440893#Comment_121440893

Agreed

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121426802#Comment_121426802

That's part of the issue here. No personal responsibility. Someone will have an accident, say it wasn't their fault as there was no signs, and a judge will agree with them.

getoutadodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441705#Comment_121441705

It's hardly the Grand Canyon. The signage is a product of ambulance chasers and the legal system that encourages them.

MojoMaker

Had my two GSDs on the deep sinking a few weeks ago and we met an absolute hoor of a clown barrelling through on a bike struggling and slipping all over the shop - despite the NO CYCLING sign.

There's no accounting!!!

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445246#Comment_121445246

It's not the Grand Canyon, but I did see someone come off a bike in front of me, and nearly fall down the steep bank.

And other posters here have recounted how they find it really dangerous.

It's subjective. I love that section myself. But I have friends who won't cycle it.

FinnC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473957#Comment_121473957

Wouldn't be like a cyclist to not obey road signs.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121475294#Comment_121475294

Unlike drivers, who never disobey a road sign, like say, for speed...oh, wait, never mind 🙄

KevRossi

The stretch is 1.75km long, I could argue that the really bad bit is 1.2km long.

Pushing the bike is at worst 12mins longer than cycling it, I've no idea how this is such an obstacle to some people. Just get off, push and enjoy the view.

GalwayGooner1996

Does anyone know what the status of the Deep Sinking is? On the Galway-Dublin cycleway website it says that planning and design is pencilled in for 2024 but I haven’t seen anything recently to suggest that it has been progressed.