Royal Canal on a Road Bike

blackvalley

Dick Turnip wrote: »

True, but it I think each county council developed their own section separately? So that would be on Kildare and the various county councils in Dublin I think.

Westmeath's section is finished years afaik so you can't blame them or funding being allocated there if that section was ready to go. The Dublin sections require a lot of planning and €€ in comparison

I dont disagree with you at all Dick and I am not blaming anybody but I just wonder was there ever an overall plan . Im not a planner or developer but I cannot understand how someone in that profession would not look at the overall idea and then work from the most used section towards areas of least use.
Now if politicians were involved in funding different county councils along the rout that might explain it .

Seth Brundle

https://twitter.com/dublingalwaygw/status/1374036053514973188

VonLuck

Any idea of a timeframe from tender to works commencing?

Peregrine

VonLuck wrote: »

Any idea of a timeframe from tender to works commencing?

Say around six months from now.

The tender for phase 4 (Phibsborough to Ashtown) will be out in a few weeks too and that should also start construction this year.

Amirani

I'm looking forward to both of these phases, should make things a good bit better for cycling (phase 2 has been fantastic).

My only concern is that things may feel a bit narrow as a pedestrian, as some areas aren't that wide. Hopefully it works out though.

VonLuck

What I'm looking forward to is segregation of cyclists and pedestrians. There should be some sort of rule where you have to keep left, regardless if you're a cyclist or a pedestrian. At the moment you have to weave around people because everyone has randomly chosen a side to walk on.

buffalo

VonLuck wrote: »

What I'm looking forward to is segregation of cyclists and pedestrians. There should be some sort of rule where you have to keep left, regardless if you're a cyclist or a pedestrian. At the moment you have to weave around people because everyone has randomly chosen a side to walk on.

The general rule when walking on roads is to keep left if you're a cyclist, right if you're a pedestrian - cyclist has to move out around the pedestrian.

I think a lot of city-dwellers have either never been without footpaths or don't really think about it, but there could be a couple of notices to highlight it on non-segregated sections when the route is complete.

buffalo

btw, the official launch of the Greenway will take place tomorrow at 10:00. You can watch at https://www.waterwaysireland.org/Pages/Royal-Canal-Greenway-Launch.aspx

Eamon Ryan T.D, Minister for Transport and
Malcolm Noonan T.D. Minister of State at the

Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage
will launch
the Royal Canal Greenway on
24th March 2021 at 10am

Seth Brundle

buffalo wrote: »

The general rule when walking on roads is to keep left if you're a cyclist, right if you're a pedestrian - cyclist has to move out around the pedestrian.

I think a lot of city-dwellers have either never been without footpaths or don't really think about it, but there could be a couple of notices to highlight it on non-segregated sections when the route is complete.

Since the lockdown, there have been way more people out walking along the roads near me, including rural roads with no footpath. I've noticed that the amount of people who are unaware of which side of the road to walk on is surprisingly large.
I think when walking along the canal, people will just walk and not think what side they should be on. You could easily see four or five abreast waslking in front of you (even now).
I guess it's just human nature

VonLuck

buffalo wrote: »

The general rule when walking on roads is to keep left if you're a cyclist, right if you're a pedestrian - cyclist has to move out around the pedestrian.

I think a lot of city-dwellers have either never been without footpaths or don't really think about it, but there could be a couple of notices to highlight it on non-segregated sections when the route is complete.

Yes I'm aware of which side of the road to walk on, but I'm not sure if the same logic applies to footpaths. I tend to walk on the left on footpaths because at least then you're facing traffic if the path is adjacent to a road. It's very dangerous having to step off a footpath onto a road which seems to be happening a lot now with social distancing.

buffalo

VonLuck wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of which side of the road to walk on, but I'm not sure if the same logic applies to footpaths. I tend to walk on the left on footpaths because at least then you're facing traffic if the path is adjacent to a road. It's very dangerous having to step off a footpath onto a road which seems to be happening a lot now with social distancing.

A footpath is not a canal-side greenway. I don't think there's many sections that are adjacent to a road - by the library off North Strand Road is the only part I can think of.

beauf

Most of the canal is shared use. Which wasn't a problem pre-covid, but its becoming an issue on the canal paths I've been on.

I was in a park yesterday. There were a good lot of cyclists, (both older kids and adults) who seemed to have very poor judgment when it came to co-existing with walkers.

Unfortunately they'll get cyclists banned from those paths, and even parks.

iwillhtfu

beauf wrote: »

Most of the canal is shared use. Which wasn't a problem pre-covid, but its becoming an issue on the canal paths I've been on.

I was in a park yesterday. There were a good lot of cyclists, (both older kids and adults) who seemed to have very poor judgment when it came to co-existing with walkers.

Unfortunately they'll get cyclists banned from those paths, and even parks.

As with most things though there's two sides to that arguement.

I use a tow path near me regularly and precovid I might see maybe a half dozen people on it on any spin that's probably trebled now so still not huge numbers.

A scenario I myself experienced so no Chinese whispers. I'm also well aware how to cycle around people and generally pass at their pace.

Spin 1 came across the usual walkers totally oblivious to their surroundings which is fine as they're in search of escaping the madness. I had a bell on my bike and gave it a ding as I was approaching maybe 50m back just a heads up. Well the abuse I got as I passed apparently I have no right of way and I was lucky they allowed me to pass apparently. These were three grown women, I didn't engage as just the usual smile and thank you.

Spin 2 similar to above came upon a solo walker with her dog (off lead as usual) I slowed right down as weary of dog and had hit a pinch point where bank had collapsed and was single track. I didn't encroach on her at all and as we both passed the bank works I approached and said excuse me can I pass (to note I could've passed but always polite to make walkers aware as their assumed path can be random) Anyway she didn't hear me so I called out again no louder just nearer and startled her. Her first words, oh sorry I was away in another world. no problem says I it's a beautiful day for it. End of and on I go or so I thought. She yell after me you're supposed to use your bell and are you allowed to be on this path. I retorted unfortunately I haven't one on this bike but will remember for next time and childishly should you not have your dog on a lead. Well that was all the ammo she needed for the usual cyclists are going to destroy this world tirade.

TL;DR. Walkers can be arseholes also and if you try to please everyone you'll be eternally disappointed.

beauf

iwillhtfu wrote: »

As with most things though there's two sides to that argument.

....

My point is the lowest common denominator will be the walker. if there's conflict point the cyclist will be asked to demount or barred from using the path entirely. I say this as a cyclist. A lot places where I used to cycle with no issues, as they were quiet. I'm seeing signs saying I now have to walk/dismount.

I'm not surprised. I'm just seeing a lot of clueless people on new bikes, just barreling down paths. People have no cop on.

iwillhtfu

beauf wrote: »

My point is the lowest common denominator will be the walker. if there's conflict point the cyclist will be asked to demount or barred from using the path entirely. I say this as a cyclist. A lot places where I used to cycle with no issues, as they were quiet. I'm seeing signs saying I now have to walk/dismount.

I'm not surprised. I'm just seeing a lot of clueless people on new bikes, just barreling down paths. People have no cop on.

I have noticed that on the Waterford greenway alright, some clubs down that way seem to be organising club spins along it which imo is wrong and as you point out they seem to be adding more and more signs to dismount and walk.

Also to balance, those extendable dog leads should come with instructions and if the owners fail to follow them it should be allowed to hog tie them with it.

VonLuck

buffalo wrote: »

A footpath is not a canal-side greenway. I don't think there's many sections that are adjacent to a road - by the library off North Strand Road is the only part I can think of.

My point is that you should maintain a logical single "rule" for footpaths. If you do one thing on roadside footpaths and another on a greenway you're just going to cause confusion.

A real sign of the confusion is that if I'm on my bike and ring a bell, people don't know where to go and invariably jump out in front of me in attempt to get out of the way!

Mercian Pro

Not sure how to link a pdf but the Royal Canal Greenway website has a link to a poster that clearly asks walkers and cyclists to keep to the left and pass on the right. It pretty well guarantees that you'll end up passing a lot of walkers who won't see you coming but I suppose that's what the bell on your bike is there for!
Where the path is a bit wider I've sometimes thought walkers on the canal side and cyclists on the inland side would work better but then it gets too confusing when it narrows. I suppose if there has to be a protocol or rule, it has to be really simple if it is to have any chance at all of being universally adopted.

buffalo

VonLuck wrote: »

My point is that you should maintain a logical single "rule" for footpaths. If you do one thing on roadside footpaths and another on a greenway you're just going to cause confusion.

A real sign of the confusion is that if I'm on my bike and ring a bell, people don't know where to go and invariably jump out in front of me in attempt to get out of the way!

So the one rule is: always cycle on the left, walk on the right, and don't step out on a road without checking it's safe.

People just aren't used to bells for the most part, there's a wide variety of responses that I think has very little to do with having a walking etiquette.

Mercian Pro wrote: »

asks walkers and cyclists to keep to the left and pass on the right. It pretty well guarantees that you'll end up passing a lot of walkers who won't see you coming but I suppose that's what the bell on your bike is there for!

The problem with walking and cycling on the left is that it encourages many cyclists to pass close to pedestrians because they try to keep left as they overtake. Without a bell, this is interpreted as buzzing, and with a bell pedestrians could react in any of a number of ways, so best to keep far right when passing.

Keep left when cycling but keep right when overtaking is a mouthful though.

Mercian Pro

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dublingalwaygw/status/1374036053514973188

buffalo wrote: »

btw, the official launch of the Greenway will take place tomorrow at 10:00. You can watch at https://www.waterwaysireland.org/Pages/Royal-Canal-Greenway-Launch.aspx

I'm sure the timing of the invitation of tenders on Dublin Phase 3 and the launch of the Greenway a few days later is totally coincidental but...I wonder how often the former will be mentioned in the speeches at the latter tomorrow.

VonLuck

buffalo wrote: »

So the one rule is: always cycle on the left, walk on the right, and don't step out on a road without checking it's safe.

People just aren't used to bells for the most part, there's a wide variety of responses that I think has very little to do with having a walking etiquette.



The problem with walking and cycling on the left is that it encourages many cyclists to pass close to pedestrians because they try to keep left as they overtake. Without a bell, this is interpreted as buzzing, and with a bell pedestrians could react in any of a number of ways, so best to keep far right when passing.

Keep left when cycling but keep right when overtaking is a mouthful though.

Take a look at Mercian Pro's post. The PDF actually advises walking and cycling on the left.

I don't really understand the logic where it would encourage cyclists to pass close to pedestrians. Why would they try to keep left if there's someone in the way? I don't know about you but I'd always give a wide berth if I was overtaking someone or something.

buffalo

VonLuck wrote: »

Take a look at Mercian Pro's post. The PDF actually advises walking and cycling on the left.

Yes, and I'm saying that's a bad system.

VonLuck wrote: »

I don't really understand the logic where it would encourage cyclists to pass close to pedestrians. Why would they try to keep left if there's someone in the way? I don't know about you but I'd always give a wide berth if I was overtaking someone or something.

You are a cyclist who frequents a cycling forum who is presumably experienced. Many others who are told to "cycle on the left" will continue to do so, even when overtaking.

Fian

So what would be the best (non-towpath) route from Dublin to Maynooth to join this? Or say from Lucan to the beginning of this greenway.

I would probably go to Lucan via grand canal and then into Griffeen valley park, which I have regularly done previously to come back into Dublin via strawberry beds and phoenix park.

would it be best to cross liffey and instead of turning right towards strawberry beds to hear straight towards St. Catherine's park? Then maybe straight past confey GAA without taking left turn over the steep railway bridge? I have driven over the railway bridge pretty often and don't particularly fancy sharing that one lane part with cars.

where would be a good point to join the canal?

Might persuade my brothers to come for a spin on this once that is possible again. Book somewhere to spend the night and have a few pints after we are done.

which brings me to a second question - are e-bikes available to hire for a few days anywhere around dublin at a reasonable price? Where would be a good hire shop?

buffalo

Fian wrote: »

So what would be the best (non-towpath) route from Dublin to Maynooth to join this? Or say from Lucan to the beginning of this greenway.

I'd probably do this if the weather had been dry and you don't mind cycling on grassy verges for some of it: https://goo.gl/maps/PinGAeyiZDUmJzkg7

If it hadn't been dry and you don't mind some unsealed surfaces, then I'd stay off the canal and continue on the R148 until Carton House entrance/Pike Bridge/junction with Ballygoran View: https://goo.gl/maps/w5WZM2JVSgFCmfxi6 (google doesn't think it's possible to get from the road to the canal there)

If you're precious about an expensive road bike, I wouldn't get on the canal at all until Maynooth.

This section gets very muddy with any amount of rain: https://goo.gl/maps/ncYtku66cGHNxxKW9

Seth Brundle

Fian wrote: »

So what would be the best (non-towpath) route from Dublin to Maynooth to join this? Or say from Lucan to the beginning of this greenway.

I would probably go to Lucan via grand canal and then into Griffeen valley park, which I have regularly done previously to come back into Dublin via strawberry beds and phoenix park.

would it be best to cross liffey and instead of turning right towards strawberry beds to hear straight towards St. Catherine's park? Then maybe straight past confey GAA without taking left turn over the steep railway bridge? I have driven over the railway bridge pretty often and don't particularly fancy sharing that one lane part with cars.

where would be a good point to join the canal?

Might persuade my brothers to come for a spin on this once that is possible again. Book somewhere to spend the night and have a few pints after we are done.

It depends where in Dublin you're leaving from but as mentioned, you could travel along the Grand Canal to Adamstown (R120) and then head towards Maynooth either through Leixlip (along R148) or through Lucan to St Catherines and then pop onto the Royal Canal at Confey to Louisa Bridge. From there you could try continue or travel along R148 (which has a bike lane or hard shoulder for much of it) to Carton and then back onto the canal towpath to Maynooth.

Another option is to get the train to Maynooth and travel along the canal from there. Removes the headache of inexperieced riders along a busy road.

Fian wrote: »

which brings me to a second question - are e-bikes available to hire for a few days anywhere around dublin at a reasonable price? Where would be a good hire shop?

If you're thinking of getting them for the canal spin then you can hire them in Maynooth and Mullingar
https://royalcanalbikehire.ie/ (with a drop off in Enfield)
http://mullingarbikehire.com/
Not sure what they have in stock (if anything) but a call will let you know.

Seth Brundle

Another thing to watch if you're travelling along the Royal Canal (and may have been "fixed" since last Summer) is that you often have to change sides when you arrive at a bridge. It may not be immediately obvious which side to be on but most have signs indicating the way but you can easily forget to look for them at the start of the journey.

loyatemu

cycling on the local cycle paths the amount of cyclists who can't get their heads around "pass on the left" is bewildering, particularly when it's clearly marked on the path itself which side is for which direction. And I'm talking about adults, most of whom presumably can drive and are familiar with the concept when behind a wheel.

beauf

Fian wrote: »

.......
which brings me to a second question - are e-bikes available to hire for a few days anywhere around dublin at a reasonable price? Where would be a good hire shop?

Dunno about a few days. You can do this though

https://www.mobybikes.com/

beauf

Last time I cycled from Coolmine to Docklands, there were no marking about passing, only to dismount here and there. Was a few years ago now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeSVx_Kzkik&ab_channel=AlanPhelan See @10.00 crossing the M50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPLnvj8tLZ4&ab_channel=CiaranWhyte

Mercian Pro

loyatemu wrote: »

cycling on the local cycle paths the amount of cyclists who can't get their heads around "pass on the left" is bewildering, particularly when it's clearly marked on the path itself which side is for which direction. And I'm talking about adults, most of whom presumably can drive and are familiar with the concept when behind a wheel.

Are you suggesting that if you catch up and want to pass someone in front of you on a cyclepath, you do so on their lefthand side? That's what "pass on the left" implies to me. From the Road Traffic Act: "Subject to the provisions of sub-article (5), a driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so".

Wishbone Ash

loyatemu wrote: »

... the amount of cyclists who can't get their heads around "pass on the left" is bewildering,.

Probably because it's normal to pass on the right (in this country).