Advice on upgrading HKC Securewatch to latest IP panel??

moany fuc

HI Guys

Just looking for some advice I installed a HKC secure watch system 5 years ago. Great system never let me down unless the kids where hammering the door down looking for my little fella to come out and play when we where not home.

Neighbour was getting driven mad especially if we where on holidays.

As I'm a gadget freak I have ip cams set up in home so I am in a position to unset false alarms from away from home.

I heard the Siemens panel is good and has IP on board which I can connect to router through home plugs not bothered if difficult as good with networking etc.

Questions are
Any other Panel with IP on board?

Will my old HKC wired sensors and bell box be compatible with the Siemens panel (sure they would)

If I wanted to add wireless sensors who makes the cheapest that are compatible with the Siemens panel and cost.

Where can I source the Siemens 4000 series and what price would I pay.

Thanks in advance

KoolKid

Hi
The Siemens/Vanderbilt SPC 4320 has IP on board. Very easy to set up & connect.
The GSD i1070 Works via Lan or WiFi . Again easy enough to set up and connect.
Those 2 would be the most popular panels we use as they have free apps & free usage options without any running costs.
Some good information on the sticky here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057394782

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Hi
The Siemens/Vanderbilt SPC 4320 has IP on board. Very easy to set up & connect.
The GSD i1070 Works via Lan or WiFi . Again easy enough to set up and connect.
Those 2 would be the most popular panels we use as they have free apps & free usage options without any running costs.
Some good information on the sticky here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057394782

LAN, Wifi...Free.
But if your electricity fails you will not be notified of ALARM activations, just fails to comm.
From a security perspective this FREE thing is not good enough.
OP I would urge you to consider either a landline or GSM/ GPRS back up.

KoolKid

The key words here are...

KoolKid wrote: »

free apps & free usage options without any running costs.

All the systems I mentioned also have options for GPRS/GSM back ups as well. Again lots of information in the sticky especially re pricing & polling etc.;)
From a security perspective would you sell a standalone non monitored alarm?

kub

As always the FREE word is being used by you.
Being honest I feel you are doing the security business a disservice.
You know well that intruder alarm systems are designed so that they still function in the event of an electrical failure.
You also know that routers cannot but you constantly come on and start using the FREE word.
As to the systems we install, well I can tell you this much, not a single one of them relies on someone's router.

You might also notice that in the average house the router is usually in the hallway by the front door, handy out for one of those ' comms failure ' notifications.

Comms failure is grand if you are on the internet or whatever, it is far more vital with regard to security systems.

Your first line is always free notifications but you are not explaining to people the vulnerability of their broadband and router and their vital component in the notification ability of their systems.

I suppose the subject of phone lines will also be brought up, but any traditional analogue telephone line always worked in the event of a electrical failure.

Here you are telling people that it is ok to rely on 3 extra things that could fail compared to that 1, namely the phone line.
Those 3 are, the broadband line, the actual router and the electrical power.

Why can't you just say free apps for the stuff you pedal?

KoolKid

Do we have to do this dance with you every time someone asks for options?
Apps are a feature, not to be confused with central station monitoring etc.
Again I said there are free options. There are also multiple options available on all systems I recommend if anyone wants redundancy.
Tell me do you install or have any standard systems with no monitoring or apps etc?

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Do we have to do this dance with you every time someone asks for options?
Apps are a feature, not to be confused with central station monitoring etc.
Again I said there are free options. There are also multiple options available on all systems I recommend if anyone wants redundancy.
Tell me do you install or have any standard systems with no monitoring or apps etc?

Perhaps i take the security aspect of this business more seriously than you and perhaps your main concern is saving people money.

The first thing we should all be doing is considering security, this is after all a Home Security Forum.
Therefore the best security that an OP can afford, therefore start with the CS monitoring and work down from there.
If the OP requests FREE monitoring then off you go and bang your familiar drum but please point out the weakness's of these.
After all you do pay for what you get.

KoolKid

Bit do you have and install systems with no apps and no monitoring.?
The majority of domestic systems out there are standalone grade 1 systems and they still conform to standards. Nothing wrong with them is there?
Now let's consider anything like apps etc added onto those systems as a feature. Not every feature has to be analysed and every feature does not have to conform to grade 2 (or above) monitored systems. Apps etc are not considered as monitoring for insurance purposes etc.
So, essentially what we have are grade 1 systems with some nice added features..
Not so long ago we were all happily selling voice diallers and text diallers as nice systems with nice features.
Now, we have some nicer features and all of a sudden these grade one systems are no good???
Let's start with normal systems like we always did and work up from there. As professional installers we are always going to be able to fault any redundancy in any system.
Different users are always going to be happy with different levels of security.
But also let's debate the options. Sometimes what you pay for the same service etc varies also.

altor

moany fuc wrote: »

HI Guys

Just looking for some advice I installed a HKC secure watch system 5 years ago. Great system never let me down unless the kids where hammering the door down looking for my little fella to come out and play when we where not home.

Neighbour was getting driven mad especially if we where on holidays.

As I'm a gadget freak I have ip cams set up in home so I am in a position to unset false alarms from away from home.

I heard the Siemens panel is good and has IP on board which I can connect to router through home plugs not bothered if difficult as good with networking etc.

Questions are
Any other Panel with IP on board?

Will my old HKC wired sensors and bell box be compatible with the Siemens panel (sure they would)

If I wanted to add wireless sensors who makes the cheapest that are compatible with the Siemens panel and cost.

Where can I source the Siemens 4000 series and what price would I pay.

Thanks in advance

Without replacing the system you have you could add a GSM-SW-SC to that system for remote access using the HKC App.

fred funk }{

Anyone relying on a router to notify them of an alarm activation is a fool. Any professional recommending same is a bigger fool. I suppose us installers are all different and have a different set of prioritys when installing a security system.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Bit do you have and install systems with no apps and no monitoring.?
The majority of domestic systems out there are standalone grade 1 systems and they still conform to standards. Nothing wrong with them is there?
Now let's consider anything like apps etc added onto those systems as a feature. Not every feature has to be analysed and every feature does not have to conform to grade 2 (or above) monitored systems. Apps etc are not considered as monitoring for insurance purposes etc.
So, essentially what we have are grade 1 systems with some nice added features..
Not so long ago we were all happily selling voice diallers and text diallers as nice systems with nice features.
Now, we have some nicer features and all of a sudden these grade one systems are no good???
Let's start with normal systems like we always did and work up from there. As professional installers we are always going to be able to fault any redundancy in any system.
Different users are always going to be happy with different levels of security.
But also let's debate the options. Sometimes what you pay for the same service etc varies also.

On your first query, it is a long long time since we installed something without notification.
Why are you bringing standards into this? I never had any issues with standards. I must inquire actually does this whole using peoples routers for notification conform, because as i don't have any systems doing so, I have no idea.
As we are on standards, we get audited to ensure we are conforming to standards, do all of the manufacturers also get their panels independently tested as well?
Interesting so how you are saying here that those same App notification units, the free ones etc, are not regarded by insurance as monitoring, which is proper order, perhaps you might mention that to people when they fall in love with the Free word.

Not so long ago some installers were indeed pedaling voice and text diallers, I never did but if someone wanted one i got them one and explained the down falls compared to professional monitoring. Note i said some installers not all.

With the way things are going with regard to noise pollution etc, i can see the days of external sirens numbered. So as for those Grade 1's well lets keep an eye on that one.

But as professional installers we should be advising people of the most secure options as opposed to starting off with the Free ones with a choice as to redundancy.

kub

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Anyone relying on a router to notify them of an alarm activation is a fool. Any professional recommending same is a bigger fool. I suppose us installers are all different and have a different set of prioritys when installing a security system.

You hit the nail on the head there Fred, maybe i am too diplomatic.

KoolKid

The fact is that any system that does not have central station monitoring is grade one so anything regarding the app etc is not relevant.
There are lots of levels of security starting at grade 1 with no monitoring and not notification all the way up to grade 4 with serious redundancy and back ups to back ups etc.
Almost all installers out there have grade one systems installed and maintained. The majority of residential customers want a grade 1 system.
Now if they decide they want extra features and convenience added to that system that's fine.
There is going to be vulnerability.
If they want a grade 2 system with monitoring there is going to be vulnerability.
And so on and so on...
Where do we stop?
As a forum that grew from the DIY forum the HSS forum should be treated and such IMO.
It was clear from your previous post that if people refuse central station monitoring as advised then they should not complain if their systems fail. But people have the right to choose what system they want and whether or not they want to pay for features on their own home security systems.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

The fact is that any system that does not have central station monitoring is grade one so anything regarding the app etc is not relevant.
There are lots of levels of security starting at grade 1 with no monitoring and not notification all the way up to grade 4 with serious redundancy and back ups to back ups etc.
Almost all installers out there have grade one systems installed and maintained. The majority of residential customers want a grade 1 system.
Now if they decide they want extra features and convenience added to that system that's fine.
There is going to be vulnerability.
If they want a grade 2 system with monitoring there is going to be vulnerability.
And so on and so on...
Where do we stop?
As a forum that grew from the DIY forum the HSS forum should be treated and such IMO.
It was clear from your previous post that if people refuse central station monitoring as advised then they should not complain if their systems fail. But people have the right to choose what system they want and whether or not they want to pay for features on their own home security systems.

So i take it you don't know about manufacturers and independent testing of their products to EN50131.
I don't need to be reminded of standards, thank you anyway.

Regardless of standards, we are professionals should be advising people of the best available things on the market for their security. Now as i said earlier, the 'you get what you pay for' and the 'best' are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
I would urge you please to point out the weakness of these Free things, i am sure people on here take your opinion seriously at this stage.

We can of course debate this in the HSS forum, to be fair to the normal person on here these discussions must be boring anyway.

But i am telling you, wherever i see free notifications mentioned in here i will be following those threads and if necessary I will let people know of the vulnerabilities of these arrangements.

KoolKid

I do know about independent testing. And I'm sure you also know that the Siemens Vanderbilt systems are fully certified and not self certified.

Again some users are happy with no monitoring or apps whatsoever.
Some are happy with self monitoring.
Some are happy with self monitoring with redundancy.
Some want central station monitoring
Some want central station monitoring with redundancy.
And you can keep going up from there.
So we are going to argue in every thread where there is a vulnerability????
Every discussion is going to be the same so just because some people want a standard system and don't want to pay for enhanced features..

kub

Look it is simple, if someone comes on here looking for a system and you reply with the free this and that because they are relying on their router.

Then if I see this I will point out the weakness.

So just give them the heads up that Free can be costly

I only knew about HKC for sure with regard to independent testing, what about GSD, Risco etc?

KoolKid

What about all the 1000s of systems out there not monitored at all?
What about systems monitored without redundancy?
There is a vulnerability to every system. Where are you going to stop?
What is your power is turned off and a GSM jammer is used? What if your landline is cut also?
Is every thread going to be about why you want everyone to use only HKC.?
Everyone doesn't want to pay for all these options and that's their right.
If they do want back ups to their systems there are plenty of systems and options available to them also.

kub

I have copied and pasted your post as I feel each point you brought up should be replied to properly:

What about all the 1000s of systems out there not monitored at all?

As you are onto numbers here, would you mind please breaking that down to how many of those systems were installed;
1. Pre the popularity of home alarm systems,when only a few people had alarm systems.
2. When neighbours knew one another well and when an external sounder was enough to get a response from a neighbour.
3. When that noise from an external alarm activating was enough to scare away an attempted intrusion.
4. Before the arrival of Broadband and before complacent manufacturers designed ways in which an alarm panel could integrate with a router, but never considered the weakness and vulnerability of same.

What about systems monitored without redundancy?

What about them? Usually in my own experience I find people take what advice i give them seriously and many do have redundancy, now i of course cannot speak for all of my colleagues out there.

There is a vulnerability to every system. Where are you going to stop?

I will stop when i have designed a proper security solution for my client which I believe ticks as many boxes as possible.

What is your power is turned off and a GSM jammer is used? What if your landline is cut also?

Well you are the one peddaling systems here that rely on routers and have the capability of GSM back up.
Do you ask people that question before you recommend your free solutions?
Besides it is a very foolish installer that will leave himself open to attempts like that, the Risk Assessment here should suggest the sort of individual and property being protected and the security system within will reflect this.

Is every thread going to be about why you want everyone to use only HKC.?

Would you do me a favour please and bring up some of my posts where i said to people that they should only use HKC ?

Everyone doesn't want to pay for all these options and that's their right.
If they do want back ups to their systems there are plenty of systems and options available to them also.

That is correct, but again you are doing the security business a disservice coming up straight away and as usual with your free this, that and the other thing to people who may not know the vulnerabilities, you are then not pointing out those vulnerabilities to these people.
But of course the funny thing is, your recommending one of the most expensive control panels to them at the same time

KoolKid

You are really getting petty & nitty gritty now.
There are 1000s of stand alone non-monitored systems out there and you know it. Furthermore systems like this can still conform to EN50131 standards.They are good enough for insurance companies and they are good enough for the certification bodies but yet are not good enough for you.
You keep on about what I am peddling. I am not the on pushing and promoting the one brand all the time. I am offering people alternatives. If people want redundancy they can have it. I have posted alternative options for those options too as you know.But you pick holes there as well.But of course I never see you posting anything about those options even though some offer the redundancy you mention and in some cases for less.
If you are so concerned about vulnerabilities & limitations of systems then maybe post the same concerns with the systems you are recommending also every time..
Power from a router can go down or be taken down.
GSM Can be blocked.
Phone lines can be cut.
ISP cables can be cut.
Radio can be jammed.
Systems can be disabled in many ways.
Now if all of the above ,and more ,was to happen, maybe polling alerts would be helpful. But yet thats something you don't appear to concern yourself with.

Instead of the same arguments over & over lets get it put in the charter, the sticky or in a warning sticky covering all systems and move on.

People come on here wanting advice on different systems and different options not just your or not just mine.

kub

KoolKid wrote:

You are really getting petty & nitty gritty now. There are 1000s of stand alone non-monitored systems out there and you know it. Furthermore systems like this can still conform to EN50131 standards.They are good enough for insurance companies and they are good enough for the certification bodies but yet are not good enough for you. You keep on about what I am peddling. I am not the on pushing and promoting the one brand all the time. I am offering people alternatives. If people want redundancy they can have it. I have posted alternative options for those options too as you know.But you pick holes there as well.But of course I never see you posting anything about those options even though some offer the redundancy you mention and in some cases for less. If you are so concerned about vulnerabilities & limitations of systems then maybe post the same concerns with the systems you are recommending also every time.. Power from a router can go down or be taken down. GSM Can be blocked. Phone lines can be cut. ISP cables can be cut. Radio can be jammed. Systems can be disabled in many ways. Now if all of the above ,and more ,was to happen, maybe polling alerts would be helpful. But yet thats something you don't appear to concern yourself with.

Will you show me please where I said there was not 1000's of non monitored systems out there.
Again as per your previous post where you said that I say to posters that they should only use HKC, could I see those posts please, because if they are there I must be losing my marbles.

Getting nitty and gritty, I have been compared to a dog with a bone on that so I agree.

A system so that complies with EN50131that is good enough for certification and insurers is good enough for you?
You as a professional installer who is aware of the limitation of especially EN50131.
Well I concern myself more with the standard of security that is required for my client, the risk assessment will decide on the system that reflects the threat.
Again as professionals we should be specifying the best for our clients.

But you are on and the one brand you never ever promote, no matter for what type of installation is HKC, the brand recognised by most installers in this country as the one that ticks most boxes especially for domestic installations.

The reason I picked holes in your alternatives is because in your previous post you said routers can be disconnected and GSM's blocked, but you always recommend both.
You don't really need to tell me about jammers etc, but it is much easier for a criminal to get their hands on a GSM blocker and remove power from a house than to have the capability to block a radio.
To you the be all and end all is polling, but comms alerts are not going to tell you your home is being broken into, will they?

KoolKid

We really are just going around in circles here.
Its down to this. People want options. You post an option , I post a different option which you want to warn people about the vulnerabilities of. Even though I often post options for IP with GSM back up the same as what you are saying is required.
But while your concerned about the telling people about these vulnerabilities, you are not equally concerned about telling them the vulnerabilities with GSM options also.
Then when I offer a further back up notification in the form of quick polling you constantly dismiss it because your offering lags so far behind in regard to this.
At the end of the day all of these are self monitored systems with some nice features.

Agin my suggestion to stop all this is to put the vulnerabilities in the sticky or maybe the charter or maybe a new thread about the vulnerabilities of all systems. Let everyone read it or direct them to it and move on..

moany fuc

Sorry Guys some issues with my internet last couple days. Thanks for all the advice some great reading here.

If this stops the arguing....... as I said in my original post I just need to be able to unset the Alarm every now and again. So doesn't matter a flying F**K how its jammed, how its cut or if it has 24/7 communication through a router.

Besides the insurance argument is a non starter cause anyone that would claim to an insurance company in the first place that they even have an alarm needs there head examined. Woppie I can save 40 euro a year but if I forget to set my Alarm or want to make modifications to it I stand to have a claim void) no thanks I have no Alarm.

Just checked again today its 20 euro now difference between having Alarm and no Alarm

What can I expect to pay for an I.P box cant seem to find any up to date prices.

Thanks

KoolKid

You position is exactly the point I am trying to get across. Tons of systems out there like that & tons of people out there who just want this as a feature without being sold everything.
You could easily just swap out your HKC control panel & keypad for an SPC4320 or the GSD i1070.
The SPC4320 takes a lan connection so a cable or power line adapter can be used for the connection.
The GSD panel can use LAN or WiFi if you want an easier option.
Shop around re pricing and try get prices from a few installers.

kub

moany fuc wrote: »

Sorry Guys some issues with my internet last couple days. Thanks for all the advice some great reading here.

If this stops the arguing....... as I said in my original post I just need to be able to unset the Alarm every now and again. So doesn't matter a flying F**K how its jammed, how its cut or if it has 24/7 communication through a router.

Besides the insurance argument is a non starter cause anyone that would claim to an insurance company in the first place that they even have an alarm needs there head examined. Woppie I can save 40 euro a year but if I forget to set my Alarm or want to make modifications to it I stand to have a claim void) no thanks I have no Alarm.

Just checked again today its 20 euro now difference between having Alarm and no Alarm

What can I expect to pay for an I.P box cant seem to find any up to date prices.

Thanks

I am sorry for hijacking your thread, KoolKid and I are in the trade and we have a few bones to pick.

I see yet again he is not recommending the cheapest option here as proposed by Altor above, which is surprising as he is always eager to save people money, that is the installation of the HKC GSM unit that is compatible with your existing panel, which due to the build quality probably has lots of years of service still available.
The Vanderbilt one is the most expensive panel and as far as I know, subject to correction of course, but is the GSD panel independently tested to EN50131?
Because KoolKid seems to be the one here with most knowledge on that, as he is testing their texting ability at the moment ( as mentioned in another thread) but he still has not answered that query.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

We really are just going around in circles here.
Its down to this. People want options. You post an option , I post a different option which you want to warn people about the vulnerabilities of. Even though I often post options for IP with GSM back up the same as what you are saying is required.
But while your concerned about the telling people about these vulnerabilities, you are not equally concerned about telling them the vulnerabilities with GSM options also.
Then when I offer a further back up notification in the form of quick polling you constantly dismiss it because your offering lags so far behind in regard to this.
At the end of the day all of these are self monitored systems with some nice features.

Agin my suggestion to stop all this is to put the vulnerabilities in the sticky or maybe the charter or maybe a new thread about the vulnerabilities of all systems. Let everyone read it or direct them to it and move on..

So here as an example we have an OP with a query, to be fair the OP seems very reasonable and he gets it.
What do you do, not even consider the HKC option, the cheapest one for the OP, instead get him to splash out a few hundred euro in replacing his control panel / keypad and whatever else might need replacing.
As the OP mentioned his broadband has been giving trouble over the last few days, so you as a professional alarm installer have no issues whatsoever in recommending your wonderful free notification etc, relying on that same broadband connection?

I notice you are being very selective in the answering the questions i have put to you, so it seems we might be going around in circles for a while yet.

Please point out to me where it was that I neglected to say to someone about the vulnerabilities of GSM.

You are addicted to polling it seems, no matter how even if it is through a domestic router. Yes great all free, but if it goes down, the only notification that customer will get is either none or fail to comms, while some toe rag could be tearing their home apart and they are out thinking that there is some minor issue with their broadband.
To my mind, polling will only be best here if is dual path, but your immediate response is always free, free and free.

I dare you to start up a sticky where we can compare every panel on the Irish market. We will soon see the short comings in all the features of the panels you constantly mention.
We will see only 1 winner there, well some of us will that is.

KoolKid

kub wrote: »

I see yet again he is not recommending the cheapest option here as proposed by Altor above, which is surprising as he is always eager to save people money, that is the installation of the HKC GSM unit that is compatible with your existing panel, which due to the build quality probably has lots of years of service still available.

Not the cheapest option by the time you pay all the annual subscriptions for the lots of years of service. But nice to see your still getting in the promotional speel at every oppotunity.

kub wrote: »

The Vanderbilt one is the most expensive panel and as far as I know, subject to correction of course, but is the GSD panel independently tested to EN50131?
Because KoolKid seems to be the one here with most knowledge on that, as he is testing their texting ability at the moment ( as mentioned in another thread) but he still has not answered that query.

Just because I am test something does not mean I have all the answers. I'm not sure if the GSD is self certified to EN50131 or like the Siemens Vanderbilt is independently certified. When I find out Ill answer your question for you.
I have had them on every audit every year since using them & I have never had any non conformance issues flagged.

KoolKid

kub wrote: »

So here as an example we have an OP with a query, to be fair the OP seems very reasonable and he gets it.
What do you do, not even consider the HKC option, the cheapest one for the OP, instead get him to splash out a few hundred euro in replacing his control panel / keypad and whatever else might need replacing.
As the OP mentioned his broadband has been giving trouble over the last few days, so you as a professional alarm installer have no issues whatsoever in recommending your wonderful free notification etc, relying on that same broadband connection?

Answered this in your previous post.

kub wrote: »

I notice you are being very selective in the answering the questions i have put to you, so it seems we might be going around in circles for a while yet.

Please point out to me where it was that I neglected to say to someone about the vulnerabilities of GSM.

Do you want them all or will just 1 example do?

kub wrote: »

LAN, Wifi...Free.
But if your electricity fails you will not be notified of ALARM activations, just fails to comm.
From a security perspective this FREE thing is not good enough.
OP I would urge you to consider either a landline or GSM/ GPRS back up.

kub wrote: »

You are addicted to polling it seems, no matter how even if it is through a domestic router. Yes great all free, but if it goes down, the only notification that customer will get is either none or fail to comms, while some toe rag could be tearing their home apart and they are out thinking that there is some minor issue with their broadband.
To my mind, polling will only be best here if is dual path, but your immediate response is always free, free and free.

I have said multiple times there are options for back ups on all the system I mention. But you only come back to the free option.
Polling on multiple paths would be great if thats what someone want & they are happy to pay something for it.
But in the incidence above suppose the toe rag kills the power and has a jammer & cuts the phone line etc then pulls your house apart, would you prefer to hear about it in 5 minutes or 90 minutes.?

kub wrote: »

I dare you to start up a sticky where we can compare every panel on the Irish market. We will soon see the short comings in all the features of the panels you constantly mention.
We will see only 1 winner there, well some of us will that is.

You really are only interested in the one brand and to complain about every other.. Every system will have shortcomings & vulnerabilities.
But as I said before lets post up our options & let the poster decide what information to take and use.....
Or will we stick with your idea and pick holes in every option in every thread.?

KoolKid

Apology accepted & please accept mine for not being able to fulfill your request on this occasion.
The second query would be better addressed with the EQA

PS. This was a response to a post that was later deleted.

kub

Not the cheapest option by the time you pay all the annual subscriptions for the lots of years of service. But nice to see your still getting in the promotional speel at every oppotunity.

Nice to see you have the same opinion as me as to the long service which his current HKC panel will give him, must be the first time you have ever said anything positive about them actually, even if it is in a roundabout way.
Also bearing in mind the issues the OP has with his broadband, do you think it sensible to be promoting using his broadband to relay alarm conditions to him?

Just because I am test something does not mean I have all the answers. I'm not sure if the GSD is self certified to EN50131 or like the Siemens Vanderbilt is independently certified. When I find out Ill answer your question for you.
I have had them on every audit every year since using them & I have never had any non conformance issues flagged.

Well sorry i figured that as you were constantly using it and only says good things about the GSD, i thought you would know.
Would the average auditor know whether or not manufacturers get their systems tested by 3 rd parties?


Sorry obviously a cut and paste here.

kub

Another cut and paste:

KoolKid wrote: »

Answered this in your previous post.

You did, while you are happy to connect to a dodgy broadband connection.

Do you want them all or will just 1 example do?

Thank you, but this was in response to you with your Free Free and Free and on what do we discover afterwards? Dodgy broadband






I have said multiple times there are options for back ups on all the system I mention. But you only come back to the free option.
Polling on multiple paths would be great if thats what someone want & they are happy to pay something for it.
But in the incidence above suppose the toe rag kills the power and has a jammer & cuts the phone line etc then pulls your house apart, would you prefer to hear about it in 5 minutes or 90 minutes.?

But if it was my house I would be notified by my monitoring company. Look yet again you say if someone is willing to pay. You are supposed to be a professional here, but your first response always is the Free word, so they think then, that they don't need to pay for redundancies.

You really are only interested in the one brand and to complain about every other.. Every system will have shortcomings & vulnerabilities.
But as I said before lets post up our options & let the poster decide what information to take and use.....
Or will we stick with your idea and pick holes in every option in every thread.?

No i am not only interested in one brand, you are wrong there. I am, as you know in this game a long time. I do not only use HKC, but i do recognise that they tick nearly all the boxes.
By all means lets line them up and compare them, let the public see which manufacturer has most features and capabilities.

KoolKid

All systems should have a good lifespan. With all electronic goods manufacturer recommendations would be 10 years. I would have lots of brands of systems out there at 20 years +.
I am sure you would have lots also but ofcourse you only mention HKC.
Likewise you say you use other systems but you give the impression that only the one brand is suitable for everyone's needs.
To simplify this down it is clear from this you are happy to point out vulnerabilitys when I suggest something but not for your own suggestions..
You constantly go on about duel path but only offer HKC as a solution even though this is possible through most systems.
We have been comparing different systems via the sticky. This clearly shows the differences is services, options, features and costs.
You ask questions about how different systems are tested to the standards, but at the same time criticise other systems that conform to those standards. Then when it doesn't suit your argument you dismiss those same standards.
I have made some recommendations to do likewise with what vulnerabilitys there are with different options. But you clearly wanting to point out vulnerabilitys with some but not others appear to show clear agendas.