UFC 212 Holloway v Aldo Sat 3rd June

mailburner

so what now for max...he probably beats frankie and then what? aldo still beats the rest of the division quite handy
that division is pretty much done imo

sonofenoch

mailburner wrote: »

so what now for max...he probably beats frankie and then what? aldo still beats the rest of the division quite handy
that division is pretty much done imo

Jeremy Stephens?

Brussels Sprout

Great result for WME/IMG in what has been a pretty bad year for them so far. Holloway is far more active, less injury prone, speaks english and hasn't already fought Frankie Edgar.

mailburner

sonofenoch wrote: »

Jeremy Stephens?

always falls short against the top guys, I'd be amazed if he managed to
get a shot at any stage of his career
the korean zombie probably one win away from a shot for me

Swashbuckler

sonofenoch wrote:

Jeremy Stephens?

Who the f**k is that guy? Sorry couldn't resist

Gamebred

Artem v Holloway headline next years july event I reckon..

EagererBeaver

The White Feather wrote: »

Aldo has been broken ever since the Conor fight. Getting destroyed like that so quickly seemed to make him mortal rather than the dominating champ he was.

That's nonsense. He completely dismantled Edgar in the only other fight he's had since and Edgar has shown against both Stephens and Yair that's he's still an absolutely top level fighter.

Swashbuckler

I can't put my finger on what was up with Aldo last night. Was it just me or did he seem off? I'd say it was the aftermath of the McGregor ko but he looked great against Frankie so it can't be that. Is Max just that good? Was there an exchange that put Aldo into his shell? Usada or IV ban maybe?

Gamebred

https://twitter.com/MJCflipdascript/status/871253884324413440


This is very strange, Max fought orthodox too so plenty chances to throw some leg kicks.

Swashbuckler

How draining are leg kicks on cardio I wonder?
i.e. throwing them

Gamebred

Not draining enough too make him stop throwing them altogether its his bread and butter through his career, I think the writing was on the wall when Mendes re arranged his face and dropped him twice, that fight took lumps out of him.

Swashbuckler

Yeah maybe. The accumulation of Mendes and Conor fights maybe. Still doesn't explain why he's given up on the kicks. Or how he did so well against Frankie.

qwabercd

riffmongous wrote: »

Great, now get Frankie in there asap

Not overly excited by this. Different style of fighter but he fell well short against Aldo.

Swashbuckler

qwabercd wrote:

Not overly excited by this. Different style of fighter but he fell well short against Aldo.

Would love to see that fight. It's really the only fight to make at FW.

Richard tea

Absolutely delighted for max. Didn't Conor say jose will never be the same again after their fight. Guess he had a point.

xtal191

Will never happen but if I was Aldo I'd be following Gadelha and Barao out of Nova Uniao.

As mentioned earlier the Brazilians are falling behind, he's still only 30 and the only way I see Aldo improving is by moving camp.

EagererBeaver

Edgar clearly the only contender at FW. They've never fought, no reason to not make the fight. Everything Holloway has said or done suggests he'll take on anyone so can't see him having any problem with it. There's not much left for Holloway at FW - defence or two and he'll move up I think.

darced

This post has been deleted.

mdwexford

Was rooting for Max so happy he got the win.

Aldo was winning the fight up till the stoppage. Whether that was Max purposely starting slow because Aldo usually slows a bit in the latter rounds in a possibility. The shot that dropped him was accurate but didn't seem powerful. Maybe his chin isn't what it used to be.

He had plenty of chances to get back to his feet and once he didn't pop up the way he usually does I knew he was done. Can't just lie there getting tagged giving the odd thumbs up for 3 minutes and expect to see out the clock. Stoppage was fully justified imo.

Edgar will be an interesting opponent for Max. His tireless work rate and takedowns will pose a different challenge. Aldo just had Frankies number but vs anyone else at 145 he's been dominant.

I agree Conor would smoke Max based on last night though. Once he connects it's lights out. We need the Notorious one back in the octagon.

qwabercd

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Would love to see that fight. It's really the only fight to make at FW.

Agreed it's the fight to make, just don't think the division is hugely interesting any more.

Ultimate Seduction

Aldo threw 11 leg kicks in his last 5 fights, Don't know why people are Suprised he didn't throw any last night. He either hurt it before or got scared after seeing Anderson Silvas leg break.

Delighted for Max, he will become the greatest FW of all time if he beats Frankie.

Brussels Sprout

EagererBeaver wrote: »

There's not much left for Holloway at FW - defence or two and he'll move up I think.

I'd love to see him fight Tony Ferguson although I wouldn't fancy his chances in that matchup.

riffmongous

qwabercd wrote: »

Not overly excited by this. Different style of fighter but he fell well short against Aldo.

And he's destroyed everyone else, quite a few people wrote him off for his last fight against Yair and he smoked him. Aldo is the only guy who has ever made Frankie look ordinary

Gamebred

riffmongous wrote: »

And he's destroyed everyone else, quite a few people wrote him off for his last fight against Yair and he smoked him. Aldo is the only guy who has ever made Frankie look ordinary

Pmsl many times did Maynard have him on queer st? even Stephens nearly kicked his head into oblivion not long ago, Max will destroy him with ease.

riffmongous

Gamebred wrote: »

Pmsl many times did Maynard have him on queer st? even Stephens nearly kicked his head into oblivion not long ago, Max will destroy him with ease.

And every time he was hit he came back and he eventually knocked him, hardly an ordinary fighter :rolleyes: You honestly think Holloway will destroy him with ease, something no one has ever done? I'm pretty sure you were one of the ones who thought Yair would KO Frankie, how did that work out for you

GerryDerpy

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Delighted for Max, he will become the greatest FW of all time if he beats Frankie.

When you say greatest of all time, do you mean based on his excellent win streak? Or do you mean on the balance of everything, he is the greatest featherweight?

Because if it is the latter, surely you can't claim Max is a better FW than McGregor?

And I wouldn't even use the defeat to McG against him, long time ago and all that. Both have evolved. Still think Max doesn't have the attributes to beat McGregor.

Gamebred

riffmongous wrote: »

And every time he was hit he came back and he eventually knocked him, hardly an ordinary fighter :rolleyes: You honestly think Holloway will destroy him with ease, something no one has ever done? I'm pretty sure you were one of the ones who thought Yair would KO Frankie, how did that work out for you

Nope I hoped he would ko edgar theres a difference, there is every chance Holloway will murder Edgar considering he gave Aldo the worst hiding of his life last night, Edgar is an o.g of the game but he will have nothing but a few failed takedown attempts for Max before hes finished eventually, will have a bet for charity on the fight with you when its made should you fancy one.

riffmongous

Gamebred wrote: »

Frankie to be slept by a capoeira kick here

That's hoping huh?

Gamebred wrote: »

Nope I hoped he would ko edgar theres a difference, there is every chance Holloway will murder Edgar considering he gave Aldo the worst hiding of his life last night, Edgar is an o.g of the game but he will have nothing but a few failed takedown attempts for Max before hes finished eventually, will have a bet for charity on the fight with you when its made should you fancy one.

What are you betting on, that Frankie loses or gets destroyed with ease, or even finished? But yeah go on, 50 quid, charity of choice.

Gamebred

riffmongous wrote: »

That's hoping huh?


What are you betting on, that Frankie loses or gets destroyed with ease, or even finished? But yeah go on, 50 quid, charity of choice.

Ah come on you're reaching now going back searching for quotes and that was the best you could find a comment with capoeira ko ffs :pac:


No just winner of the fight 50e goes to charity of winners choice, hope its in New York on GSP Bisping undercard Nov time.

riffmongous

Gamebred wrote: »

Ah come on you're reaching now going back searching for quotes and that was the best you could find a comment with capoeira ko ffs :pac:


No just winner of the fight 50e goes to charity of winners choice, hope its in New York on GSP Bisping undercard Nov time.

Hardly, I remember being surprised at the time by people writing off Frankie so easily, but considering you're backing down now on your destroyed with ease stuff maybe your weren't being serious there alright.

Winner is grand, PM whenever it happens

Gamebred

Aldo Cub 2 is the fight to make next for Jose.

EagererBeaver

Gamebred wrote: »

Aldo Cub 2 is the fight to make next for Jose.

I'm not sure Jose will be back but a 155 fight against Khabib would be unreal.

0byme75341jo28

I think Aldo could retire tbh, don't think he has the mentality to build himself up.

sonofenoch

Avalynn Tasty Bugle wrote: »

I think Aldo could retire tbh, don't think he has the mentality to build himself up.

I think so too....there's a touch of the Ronda Rousey wobbles about him

Gamebred

He came back from the most embarrassing loss probably in mma history, he will be back from this wreck someone and then could retire on a win I think.

ricero

Gamebred wrote: »

He came back from the most embarrassing loss probably in mma history, he will be back from this wreck someone and then could retire on a win I think.

Reckon he may face cub swanson next. Im sure cub would want to erase his quick loss to aldo

Amazingfun

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I'd love to see him fight Tony Ferguson although I wouldn't fancy his chances in that matchup.

God no, I think Max would be murdered tbh, and there are so many delicious fights for Tony before that, don't you think? At least I hope so, can't wait to see him again :-)

wonderfullife

Ronda and Jose share something in common:

They were dominant against certain types of opponents but the game evolved past them.

Jose looked exceptional against Frankie at UFC 200 but Frankie is a short wrestler. He looked great against Chad in the rematch. Another wrestler. Great against Faber. Short wrestler.

MMA striking evolved past the likes of Hominick and Florian. Guys like Conor and Max (and Holly and Amanda) use better footwork, better movement, better timing, better use of angles and distance.

Aldo is still a phenomenal fighter and if you throw him any typical featherweight or lightweight wrestler with an overhand I'd be backing him to win. I.e. throw him an Edgar or an Alvarez and he'll take them apart over 5 rounds.

He was once the elite striker at the lower weight classes but the striking game has gone by him.

The best thing the UFC can do now for Aldo is to give him Cub Swanson again and rebuild his confidence.

finglashoop

wonderfullife wrote: »

Ronda and Jose share something in common:

They were dominant against certain types of opponents but the game evolved past them.

Jose looked exceptional against Frankie at UFC 200 but Frankie is a short wrestler. He looked great against Chad in the rematch. Another wrestler. Great against Faber. Short wrestler.

MMA striking evolved past the likes of Hominick and Florian. Guys like Conor and Max (and Holly and Amanda) use better footwork, better movement, better timing, better use of angles and distance.

Aldo is still a phenomenal fighter and if you throw him any typical featherweight or lightweight wrestler with an overhand I'd be backing him to win. I.e. throw him an Edgar or an Alvarez and he'll take them apart over 5 rounds.

He was once the elite striker at the lower weight classes but the striking game has gone by him.

The best thing the UFC can do now for Aldo is to give him Cub Swanson again and rebuild his confidence.

Aldo is infinitely more rounded and skilled than ronda

darced

This post has been deleted.

Gamebred

Lads hes hardly comparing Ronda and Aldo skill wise.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Brussels Sprout

Fun fact: The featherweight belt has now not been successfully defended since October 2014!

Ultimate Seduction

Aldo lost 2 of his last 3 by strikes

Probably the best takedown defence I've seen and probably the best leg kicks I've seen but let's be honest, he's only ever met 2 good strikers and lost to both by tko/up to strikes.

The evolution of MMA passed him by

Ultimate Seduction

Fun fact: Max Holloway holds the following records in the FW division..

Most fights

Most wins

Most TKOs

Most stoppages

Most significant strikes

The stats prove my point that Max is the greatest featherweight ever.
He just needs to beat Frankie to really cement it.

It's an emotional time for me, I love Max, he proved me right and made me a nice few quid

**Conor didn't hang around FW long enough to be considered GOAT of FW, obviously I think Conor knocks everyone at FW out

Ultimate Seduction

GerryDerpy wrote:

When you say greatest of all time, do you mean based on his excellent win streak? Or do you mean on the balance of everything, he is the greatest featherweight?

Post 246 for detailed answer

wonderfullife

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

MMA is cyclical so this will change but right now we are in the era of specialists and Aldo, as you point out, is more of an all-rounder.

Conor and Maia are probably the 2 best current proponents of this. Everyone knows Maia is going to take you down and try strangle you. Everyone knows Conor is going to find a way to land the left hand on your chin. It's hard to stop either man because they are so good.

Being so good at one specialty > all-rounder.

MMA has a way of being cyclical and just like Ronda's downfall, I expect in the coming years we will see people figure out the blueprint to defeat Conor and Maia's specialties too.

As for Aldo, he was outclassed and exposed in a fashion. Sure, he wasn't dominated pillar to post and he was absolutely up 20-18 on all scorecards.

But that's not the point.

The point is Max said coming in what he was going to do. Everyone knew he'd be picking up the pace from the 3rd Round onwards. In between the 2nd and 3rd round Max's corner told him to start picking up the pace with more volume. As soon as he did it, which Aldo knew was coming, he had no answers.

For someone to come into a fight and say "I'll KO you in the 1st" (Conor) or "I'll get rid of you in the later rounds" (Max) and then do it, it does expose the weaknesses.

It's not as if we can just say Aldo has a stylistic problem with taller strikers because he performed well against Florian. I just think the new breed of MMA strikers have moved past Aldo's more traditional muay thai.

EagererBeaver

I don't think he was outclassed in the slightest. Not sure how you can say he was outclassed and then state he was definitely 20-18 up.

He got caught with a shot and Holloway was too good to let him away with it.

cletus

I agree with eagererbeaver. Aldo in no way looked outclassed, nor was he found out. He looked probably as good as he did against Edgar. He had Holloway in trouble at a couple of points, and as you said, was 20-18 up.

Mellor

I only got to catch up on this now. GreT main event. Happy for Max, he's looks great ever since the lose to Conor. Put the head down and got back on the ladder.


Round 1
Not much happened initially, both were very tentative, especially Aldo. He was keeping that right hand on the jaw.
At the halfway point, Aldo unloaded, that probably took the round for him. But as soon as he did, the right hand was back at his chest. Not good.

Round 2
More of the same. Home judges might have shaded it for Jose. But Max's bravado at the end makes a big judge impression too. He was clearly getting comfortable towards the end.
Overall I felt it was very very close strikes landed. Drawn round for me.

Rd 3
Max can out oooking to keep momentum going. Starting to show confidence in his combos. Aldo breathing hard, and that right hand dropping down into wild Aldo mode again.
Max eventually caught him with a double one-two on the button. From there it was just survival. Haven't seen Aldo guard tore up like that so he must have been hurt.

I've no issue with the stoppage. Aldo took a lot of strikes when on his back. Then just curled up and took it. Turtling up is not defending in MMA.
I know he was giving the thumbs up to say he was fine. But that doesn't cut it. He knows he had to get out of there. He couldn't.
Reminded me of the finish in Faber v Barao II

Surprised he didn't throw more of leg kicks. They were right there. Broken foot in camp?