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Cost of living west vs. east in the world

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  • 03-06-2017 10:26am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭


    Regulations need to be done away with so companies here can compete with the far east. Firing people should be made cheap and easy for companies.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Regulations need to be done away with so companies here can compete with the far east. Firing people should be made cheap and easy for companies.

    If you want to compete with the far east move there so all the costs of living are the same.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Regulations need to be done away with so companies here can compete with the far east. Firing people should be made cheap and easy for companies.

    A really stupid comment, but not surprising given your usual mantra! It would be utterly stupid for any Irish company to go into competition with the Far East producing low value added goods on cost basis.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    A really stupid comment, but not surprising given your usual mantra! It would be utterly stupid for any Irish company to go into competition with the Far East producing low value added goods on cost basis.

    Exactly, ourselves and the far East are apples and oranges really. If you are going back to that perhaps go back to the famine warhouse times. Skilled labour costs money because it adds as you said that extra bit of value to the product/service.

    For us to survive on a far east Wage, the cost of living would also have to go down dramatically.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    beauf wrote: »
    If you want to compete with the far east move there so all the costs of living are the same.
    Is that really what you want? Why do you think people voted for Brexit and Trump?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Exactly, ourselves and the far East are apples and oranges really. If you are going back to that perhaps go back to the famine warhouse times. Skilled labour costs money because it adds as you said that extra bit of value to the product/service.

    For us to survive on a far east Wage, the cost of living would also have to go down dramatically.
    The west has its own unskilled workers who are expensive to keep on the dole.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Is that really what you want? Why do you think people voted for Brexit and Trump?

    It wasn't so they could be fired by some madmans whim


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The west has its own unskilled workers who are expensive to keep on the dole.

    If you object to western living standards then don't live there.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    The west has its own unskilled workers who are expensive to keep on the dole.

    Not as expensive as following your nonsense! BTW how long to have to wait you you to tie it in to your usual predictions???


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Is that really what you want? Why do you think people voted for Brexit and Trump?

    Well the definitely did not vote what you think they voted for, that is for sure! Try googling 'good jobs' I think that is one of their usual phrases!


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,514 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Is that really what you want? Why do you think people voted for Brexit and Trump?


    Protest votes against established political parties/leaders for the failure of decades of failed ideologies/theories such as neoliberalism and neoclassical theory, maybe!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    beauf wrote: »
    If you object to western living standards then don't live there.
    Western living standards are the legacy of hard work in days gone bye. Third world living standards will be the legacy of how we are living today.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Western living standards are the legacy of hard work in days gone bye. Third world living standards will be the legacy of how we are living today.

    Really and how did you arrive at that conclusion then??? Living standards have advanced because we have concentrated of producing high valued added goods rather than trying to compete on a cost basis with eastern countries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Really and how did you arrive at that conclusion then??? Living standards have advanced because we have concentrated of producing high valued added goods rather than trying to compete on a cost basis with eastern countries.
    That is the much vaunted theory but it is a very poor reflection of reality. There are many unskilled workers in the west but the low skilled jobs are now in the east so the unskilled have become a social burden. The high skilled jobs require a steady stream of high skilled workers from places like India to meet their quota which is fine but the high skilled jobs are not benefiting low skilled westerners.

    The low value products produced in the east need to be imported by the west so that is a cost drain considering we have a lot of low skilled workers here who cannot be employed because the minimum wage and excessive regulations here make it impossible to compete with the east in the manufacture of common goods. Instead we put them on the dole and say we are too clever to make household utensils.

    Countries in the east are moving up the value chain rapidly. Countries in the west are relying on things like low central bank interest rates to prop up their economies. The mainstream rhetoric will come undone with the next economic crash and I believe that will hit before the end of the year.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Countries in the east are moving up the value chain rapidly. Countries in the west are relying on things like low central bank interest rates to prop up their economies. The mainstream rhetoric will come undone with the next economic crash and I believe that will hit before the end of the year.

    I know we'd eventually get back to your usual crash prediction! Of course there will be another crash and another but none of your predictions will be based on luck rather than any proper analysis.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Spare a thought for James Connolly and Jim Larkin who are currently spinning in their grave due to this thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Spare a thought for James Connolly and Jim Larkin who are currently spinning in their grave due to this thread
    That pair! Never had much time for them. Socialists wrecked this country. RIP to them anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    Anybody can compete with the far east.

    All you need is robots and automation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    I know we'd eventually get back to your usual crash prediction! Of course there will be another crash and another but none of your predictions will be based on luck rather than any proper analysis.
    If I am right, the next crash will end capitalism in the west, for generations to come. It has taken China hundreds of years to regain the prestige it had at the time of Marco Polo. The next downturn to hit the west will outlive everyone on the planet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    If I am right, the next crash will end capitalism in the west, for generations to come. It has taken China hundreds of years to regain the prestige it had at the time of Marco Polo. The next downturn to hit the west will outlive everyone on the planet.

    I don't think you know enough about Chinese history to make any comparisons.

    I'm pretty sure China lost that prestige when the Mongols killed half the Chinese population.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    eeguy wrote: »
    Anybody can compete with the far east.

    All you need is robots and automation.
    They would have to use automation out of necessity rather than choice if they were to compete successfully with the far east. Removing choice is not a good thing. Also that does not tackle the issue of low skilled workers in the west who are unemployed and receiving the dole, which lowers western competitiveness.

    Automation costs a lot. Why would companies make that investment in the west when they could make it in the east where labour costs are lower and where there is a growing abundance of highly skilled labour? Finally, why should companies even have to invest in automation in the west just so they can compete with cheap labour in the east. If westerners want jobs, let them work for the same pay as easterners. Given the flight of industry from west to east, I suspect many industrialists think along those lines.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    They would have to use automation out of necessity rather than choice if they were to compete successfully with the far east. Removing choice is not a good thing. Also that does not tackle the issue of low skilled workers in the west who are unemployed and receiving the dole, which lowers western competitiveness.

    Automation costs a lot. Why would companies make that investment in the west when they could make it in the east where labour costs are lower? Finally, why should companies even have to invest in automation in the west just so they can compete with cheap labour in the east. If westerners want jobs, let them work for the same pay as easterners. Given the flight of industry from west to east, I suspect many industrialists think along those lines.

    We in the west enjoy a certain quality of life that's almost unimaginable for many people in the Asia. For your plan to work, we'd have to regress back to the 19th century to compete with China and the rest.

    No one is going to do that. Even the unemployed on the dole have a much higher standard of living. Automation doesn't cost a lot. It usually costs less than paying an employee, which is why everything is being automated.
    What we need is a new social framework which leverages and redistributes the money made by automation, which may be the Universal Income which is being trialled in some areas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    eeguy wrote: »
    We in the west enjoy a certain quality of life that's almost unimaginable for many people in the Asia. For your plan to work, we'd have to regress back to the 19th century to compete with China and the rest.

    No one is going to do that.
    Not willingly anyway but you are assuming they would have a choice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Another point, which is more to do with the imported products than the jobs. I find that the quality of the goods coming from China and other eastern countries is not always as good as the products which used to be made in the west. It is a bit annoying trying to find a specific quality product. In the past quality was expected, nowadays depending on what you are trying to buy, you have to shop around and the best available is often of very mediocre quality and design.

    I also noticed, that when I do find a quality product, it costs much more than what the same quality product would have cost only five years ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    That got little to do with the location and more to do the price point the manufacturer is asked to match.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    beauf wrote: »
    That got little to do with the location and more to do the price point the manufacturer is asked to match.

    It's also got to do with Chinese companies undercutting western manufacturers, who are then forced to move into more niche, boutique products.

    So the Chinese stuff is made to lower price/quality, while the western stuff is now extremely high end and expensive. There's less of a middle ground for fear of Asian competition.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I don't know how you seperate say guitars made in china for Gibson, or phones made by china for western brands. Vs Chinese own brands.

    They are all made in China. They are all "Chinese Stuff"


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    A really stupid comment, but not surprising given your usual mantra! It would be utterly stupid for any Irish company to go into competition with the Far East producing low value added goods on cost basis.

    Exactly, ourselves and the far East are apples and oranges really. If you are going back to that perhaps go back to the famine warhouse times. Skilled labour costs money because it adds as you said that extra bit of value to the product/service.

    For us to survive on a far east Wage, the cost of living would also have to go down dramatically.

    There's millions of very well paid people in Asia,. Asia has huge concentrations of wealth far beyond anything you would see in Ireland .


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭C3PO


    Would this thread not be better in "After Hours"?


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