Management company not doing their job

ABalz

Hello,
I live in this apartment i bought a year ago and now i am 6 months pregnant. Only one elevator of the building was working and now that's broken too. The emergency stairs are disgusting to use (we have anti-social behaviour problems) and i am finding it every day more difficult and painful to walk 4 floors of stairs. The management company is useless and claim they do not have the money to repair the elevator (despite the outrageous maintanance fee they charge). Is there any forum i can check if i have any rights here? Or start a dispute?
Thank you!

browner85

More than likely a lot of people are not paying their fees.. find out when the agm is and attend it see exactly what is happening

Paulw

If you own your unit, you should be getting a copy of the accounts each year, so you should know the financial status of your management company. Also, you should be invited to the management company AGM, so if you attended that you would know the issues and what is being done.

You are a part of the management company. It is the management agent you are talking to, and they only do what they can, under instruction from the management company directors, depending on the funds available.

Your rights and obligations are the same as every other member of the management company. If people pay their fees, then there should be funds for repairs, and things should then be repaired in a timely manner.

But, if the money isn't there, then there is not a whole lot that you can do. Chasing overdue management fees is a tough task that can take time. But, in the end, everyone pays their share, just sometimes the management company must bring action through the courts.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ABalz wrote: »

Hello,
I live in this apartment i bought a year ago and now i am 6 months pregnant. Only one elevator of the building was working and now that's broken too. The emergency stairs are disgusting to use (we have anti-social behaviour problems) and i am finding it every day more difficult and painful to walk 4 floors of stairs. The management company is useless and claim they do not have the money to repair the elevator (despite the outrageous maintanance fee they charge). Is there any forum i can check if i have any rights here? Or start a dispute?
Thank you!

If you own the unit you appointed the management company so you have the right in collaboration with your fellow owners to make decisions regarding what gets spent. If you want the lifts repaired you will have to repair them. Does your company have the money to do this. If not this is on you as an owner.

If the management fee is outrageous have you shown up at an agm seeking an explanation. Is money being wasted? Is no e.g. not being collected from other members?

Paulw

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If you own the unit you appointed the management company

Not correct. If you own the unit, then you are a member of the management company. The management company appoints a management agent to do the day to day work.

Incorrect terms add to the confusion.

The_Conductor

Unless of course the Management Company are a doing some DIY- there have been a long and very interesting list of complaints about management agents from management companies lodged with the PRSA in the last few months- many of whom are functioning solely in name.

OP- when you bought your apartment- you bought a share in the management company- you have rights and obligations associated with your apartment- as do others.

At this point in time- I would suggest contacting the Management Company directly and advising them of your plight. They may be able to reassign limited resources towards the lift. Lift repair/maintenance is remarkably expensive- and if there are other owners in the building who are not paying the Management Charges- unfortunately everyone suffers. The fact that you have paid yours- is simply the fact that you have fulfilled your obligation. Others- apparently, have not.

jimmycrackcorm

It's be suggesting to the management company that in getting the lifts repaired that they be fitted with key fobs for access by residents who pay their fees.

Victor

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's be suggesting to the management company that in getting the lifts repaired that they be fitted with key fobs for access by residents who pay their fees.

How much would fob access cost?

Whatever about access to discretionary services, withdrawing lift access might not be legal, safe or appropriate.

AvonEnniskerry

Victor wrote:

Whatever about access to discretionary services, withdrawing lift access might not be legal, safe or appropriate.

I would have thought it is. It's common practice in hotels to only allow keycard access in an elevator

Peregrinus

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

I would have thought it is. It's common practice in hotels to only allow keycard access in an elevator

Yes, but everyone staying at the hotel gets a keycard. You're suggesting that people who own and live in flats in the building should be refused a keycard, and there's nothing in the hotel practice analogous to that.

Victor

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

I would have thought it is. It's common practice in hotels to only allow keycard access in an elevator

Would you render a wheelchair user homeless because their landlord hasn't paid their fees?

April 73

Victor wrote: »

Would you render a wheelchair user homeless because their landlord hasn't paid their fees?

The OP has paid her fees, is six months pregnant & walking up and down four flights of stairs.

Other owners may not have paid their fees which creates this problem.

Your wheelchair user is hypothetical & even if real - their landlord has the responsibility to pay fees out of the rent received. It's not up to other members of the company to subsidise a landlord's business or subsidise other owners.

Peregrinus

April 73 wrote: »

The OP has paid her fees, is six months pregnant & walking up and down four flights of stairs.

Other owners may not have paid their fees which creates this problem.

Your wheelchair user is hypothetical & even if real - their landlord has the responsibility to pay fees out of the rent received. It's not up to other members of the company to subsidise a landlord's business or subsidise other owners.

But equally the other members of the company don't have the right to victimise the wheelchair-bound tenant because her landlord is in default. They have the right to bring legal proceedings against the landlord for the money owed, and it would obviously be bad public policy to discourage them from doing that by making it easier for them to victimise the innocent tenant than to sue the landlord.

The_Conductor

OP- honestly, I think you need to make a personal case to the Management Company to see what can be done.

Unfortunately- you are caught up in the cross-fire between those who have paid and those who have not paid.

There tends to be a hierarchy of expenditure- insurance comes first and foremost, lighting second- and pretty much everything else thereafter (including the lift, security, bins etc etc). If there is insufficient money coming in to cover all items on the to-do list- they get chopped.

You are the Management Company though- it is not some nameless, faceless entity- it is you, and every other owner in the place.

The Management Company *needs* to pursue the non-payers, and extract at least the overdue money (I'd argue fees and fines should be levied too- however, thats for another discussion).

Right here, right now- you need to contact the Management Company and impress on them the imperative you have to get the lift sorted.

If you want to go down the road of discussing access cards etc- fine- however, not at the cost of delaying getting a solution in place for you.

ABalz

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
I have indeed contacted the management company several times, and the only response i keep getting is that they will repair it when they have the money.
Now, the yearly fee covers from May 1 to April 30 of the follwing year, and as of today, June 10, they haven't even sent out the invoices. I even complained about this and the answer was that they are planning to send them out in July. How can they expect to have money to do maintanance if they don't even chase the money they are owed?
In the meantime the weeks pass and i it's getting more and more difficult every day for me.
The company manages the whole building so i was in no position to choose which one i wanted when i bought the apartment.

The_Conductor

Once again- I'd highlight the difference between Management Company and Management Agent. The Management Agent manages the building- does the repairs etc- on the instruction of the Management Company. You are a shareholder in the Management Company- who in turn employ the Management Agent to discharge their duties.

You need to contact the Management Company- *not* the company who are tasked with upkeep of the building- that is a third party- and get them to chase the Management Agent to do the requisite repairs.

Have you had an AGM at which all of these items were discussed or brought up? Legally the Management Company *have* to hold an AGM at least once a year (every 12 months).

At this point- I'd be contacting FLAC or similar- seeking legal assistance- you need this repair done- right here, right now. You don't need it in 6 months time (ok, you do- but not as critically as you need it today).

This is, unfortunately, all part of living in a multi-unit development- and is the manner chosen by the government to absolve local authorities and councils of their obligations to take estates into charge and provide these type services.

If you're sitting down and would like something to read- I strongly suggest downloading a copy of the MUD Act from the ODCE website- it spells out legal rights and obligations of owners and management companies and how they pertain to multi-unit developments.

Bushmanpm

We recently bought a flat and the completion was held up for quite a while as they sorted out the outstanding service charges. Apparently the landlord was having issues with the tenant and hadn't paid the service charge for five years and the estate agents attitude was this was not unusual

C3PO

The_Conductor wrote: »

This is, unfortunately, all part of living in a multi-unit development- and is the manner chosen by the government to absolve local authorities and councils of their obligations to take estates into charge and provide these type services.

Are you suggesting that local authorities should be responsible for the upkeep of lifts in privately owned apartment blocks?

April 73

Peregrinus wrote: »

But equally the other members of the company don't have the right to victimise the wheelchair-bound tenant because her landlord is in default. They have the right to bring legal proceedings against the landlord for the money owed, and it would obviously be bad public policy to discourage them from doing that by making it easier for them to victimise the innocent tenant than to sue the landlord.

Nobody would be victimising the hypothetical wheelchair bound tenant. They wouldn't be singled out anymore than any tenant whose landlord isn't paying fees. Getting reluctant owners to pay fees through the legal system is costly, expensive & in many cases ultimately fairly futile until the landlord comes to sell the property. I speak from experience as a previous management company director.
Sometimes other levers have to be employed to get landlords & owners to open their wallets. That is the removal of services until fees are paid. Tenants who pay rent for accomodation & services will soon push their landlord to pay their fees if they cannot access services & will ultimately move out.

The OPs current situation is unfair as the lifts aren't working. If a wheelchair bound owner lived there he/she would be in an impossible situation now too. Waiting on the legal process won't offer any immediate solution, which is what is required.

OP - you may need to consider looking into how an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Management Company can be called & a vote taken on priority spending to fix the lifts. The legal docs attached to the Management Company should tell you how to do this.

April 73

ABalz wrote: »

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
I have indeed contacted the management company several times, and the only response i keep getting is that they will repair it when they have the money.
Now, the yearly fee covers from May 1 to April 30 of the follwing year, and as of today, June 10, they haven't even sent out the invoices. I even complained about this and the answer was that they are planning to send them out in July. How can they expect to have money to do maintanance if they don't even chase the money they are owed?
In the meantime the weeks pass and i it's getting more and more difficult every day for me.
The company manages the whole building so i was in no position to choose which one i wanted when i bought the apartment.

Find out which owners are management company directors and approach them individually to explain your predictament. If the lifts aren't being repaired for lack of money - I would worry about how the company is being managed currently by the directors. They have a legal obligation to manage the company correctly & to direct the management agent in their tasks.

The_Conductor

C3PO wrote: »

Are you suggesting that local authorities should be responsible for the upkeep of lifts in privately owned apartment blocks?

I am suggesting apartment owners should have their management charges deducted from their property tax obligations- thats what I'm suggesting. Someone who lives in an estate that is taken in charge- gets services from local authorities that someone in a managed development has to pay for separately- i.e. it is a defacto form of double taxation.

notharrypotter

The_Conductor wrote: »

councils of their obligations to take estates into charge and provide these type services.

.

The curse of self certification is coming home to roost.
The lack of oversight coupled with this permitted many of our "developers/builders" to take shortcuts.

Far too many estates and development's have significant underlying issues that it is a serious financial headache for local authorities going forward.

The_Conductor

notharrypotter wrote: »

The curse of self certification is coming home to roost.
The lack of oversight coupled with this permitted many of our "developers/builders" to take shortcuts.

Far too many estates and development's have significant underlying issues that it is a serious financial headache for local authorities going forward.

If they are taken in charge- and the council/local authority have a cost associated with them- at least the owners will be paying property tax- i.e. they are making a contribution towards the actual cost.

Yes though- this whole self certification lark was open to abuse- and have been abused- however, by and large, its the people who bought in these developments who have been left holding the baby and the bathwater.

Even if there are serious issues- any prospective purchaser should carry out due dilligence to ensure these type issues are uncovered/remedied at as early a stage as possible- or a suitable discunt to the market price is negotiated to reflect the issues.

Del2005

The_Conductor wrote: »

If they are taken in charge- and the council/local authority have a cost associated with them- at least the owners will be paying property tax- i.e. they are making a contribution towards the actual cost.

Yes though- this whole self certification lark was open to abuse- and have been abused- however, by and large, its the people who bought in these developments who have been left holding the baby and the bathwater.

Even if there are serious issues- any prospective purchaser should carry out due dilligence to ensure these type issues are uncovered/remedied at as early a stage as possible- or a suitable discunt to the market price is negotiated to reflect the issues.

The lifts in the Ballymun towers where regularly out of service and the council owned them. A council has as limited a budget as a Management Company and if they don't have the funds then neither can repair expensive lifts.

Being taken in charge by the council can lead to a deterioration in the development. My development has gardeners in weekly and is repainted every few years, there is an estate next to us and the grass is rarely cut and when it is its so long that it looks terrible as they don't collect it. We had issues with tiles on our access stairs breaking this was resolved in a few months, we'd still be breaking if we were waiting on the council and most likely have got a bad solution.

My Dublin property tax went to Irish Water and if it hadn't gone there it would have been used to subsidise counties with lower property tax returns. It's not ring fenced so is like general taxation.

Lantus

Victor wrote:

Would you render a wheelchair user homeless because their landlord hasn't paid their fees?

It would be the landlord who is preventing his tenant access through their failure to pay. No fault of the omc.

Lift access is a good idea. Bear in mind that without fees there are zero lifts in operation.

I'd be more inclined to access control the main front door to prevent access to the common areas which hopefully includes the lift for non payers.

The_Conductor

Lantus wrote: »

It would be the landlord who is preventing his tenant access through their failure to pay. No fault of the omc.

Lift access is a good idea. Bear in mind that without fees there are zero lifts in operation.

I'd be more inclined to access control the main front door to prevent access to the common areas which hopefully includes the lift for non payers.

You can't control access the front door- you can withdraw access to common services/areas (including the lifts) but you can't impede an owners access to their property. You can make them take the stairs, rescind parking rights etc- but not lock them out.