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Do you have sympathy for male 'incels (involuntary celibates)?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,338 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    They're usually just a load of angry and biter lads winding each other up on dark corners of the internet because they didn't get the ride.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,446 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Wibbs wrote: »
    +1. I remember reading some studies into genetics and geography and it showed that women and their genes travel further than men and this has been the case throughout our history. Like you say you can see this in small towns around Ireland. The ratio of teenage men and women in a local nightclub are about equal, but that gets more skewed as the ages go up. Even in tribal societies it's nearly always the women that marry out into other groups. It's one theory why women are generally better on average at acquiring languages. It was positively selected for because of these movements.

    I hadn't heard of that particular mechanism for language acquisition but it makes sense. Going back in time another element would have been hunter gather societies losing women to farming societies because of the better ability to provide resources.
    In the US it can go down to particular cities, for example either in NY or Manhattan 10% of men are gay and various other reasons make it harder for women to meet men, the suggestion is for them to move to California where more men are employed.
    The next generation will need stock exchange levels of information just to get a date :D

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    They are not 'incel'. They are just weird/not great looking guys who want to have sex with hot girls. There are millions of ugly men in relationships , you know what they do? Find an ugly girlfriend.
    There are no incels, only people who do not want to settle for their standard.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Shenshen wrote: »
    There's more than just "a chance". There's a high probability.
    I think the major disconnect is that you seem to think "stick male part into female part" = sex. It may be for men, but it isn't for women.
    To claim that women can have sex easily simply because there's plenty of male parts wanting to get stuck into something is a bit like claiming that everybody on the planet has enough to eat because there are plenty of insects everywhere.

    That's pretty much it in a nutshell. While you're turning up your nose at the yucky ants there are ten guys looking jealously over at all your free protein :D


    That 20% figure someone quoted earlier. Does that mean
    - on average if you showed a woman 5 men at random she would find one attractive (entirely plausible). OR
    - only one in five men are considered attractive by women in general (less likely) or by any women at all (statistically nil chance)

    Atrtractive can also be assessed differently from a female point of view (gross generalisation) as having enough positive qualities to say yes while from a male point of view it's not enough repulsive ones to say no.

    It takes more time to reach the former conclusion than the latter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    wakka12 wrote: »
    They are not 'incel'. They are just weird/not great looking guys who want to have sex with hot girls. There are millions of ugly men in relationships , you know what they do? Find an ugly girlfriend.
    There are no incels, only people who do not want to settle for their standard.

    Well... thanks, I guess. My husband is one of the genuinely nicest people I ever met. Does that then mean I'm ugly? :confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,443 ✭✭✭tritium


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Huh? I thought the general tone here is that there are as many women out there struggling to find a partner as there are men?
    Only thing is, I somehow doubt these older and educated women would start groups on the internet to share their thoughts on raping strange men, or close family relations?

    I doubt most single men do either.

    But then i wouldn't get away with making the gross assumption that because a woman on the internet advocated culling men for example that she spoke for all women. In fact im pretty sure it would be dismissed as the isolated ramblings of a looney


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Complete myth that any woman can get sex at any time. And nothing to with pc whatever. Also I was on their group for 5 minutes and still saw at least 2 suggestions of rape.

    Seeing my female friends tinders makes me not believe that


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Well... thanks, I guess. My husband is one of the genuinely nicest people I ever met. Does that then mean I'm ugly? :confused:

    huh?? how did you get that from my post? Why does it mean he's ugly just because he's nice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    That's pretty much it in a nutshell. While you're turning up your nose at the yucky ants there are ten guys looking jealously over at all your free protein :D


    That 20% figure someone quoted earlier. Does that mean
    - on average if you showed a woman 5 men at random she would find one attractive (entirely plausible). OR
    - only one in five men are considered attractive by women in general (less likely) or by any women at all (statistically nil chance)

    Atrtractive can also be assessed differently from a female point of view (gross generalisation) as having enough positive qualities to say yes while from a male point of view it's not enough repulsive ones to say no.

    It takes more time to reach the former conclusion than the latter.

    Yes, I had been wondering that. I know male attraction is largely based on visual. I've been told that most men will subconsciously or consciously do a I'd do her/I wouldn't do her assessment of a woman they meet for the first time within seconds of meeting her.
    I'm not sure if that's true, please do correct me if it isn't.

    I've had a reasonable share of partners, but I honestly cannot claim that I EVER would have been able to decide that on a picture. Looks are entirely secondary for this choice for me, and I've had conversations with male friends sitting in cafes that went "So would you do him? What about him?" pointing at random strangers and eventually accusing me of not being honest when I said I simply didn't know.
    Even for casual sex, I will want to have a chat with the guy to figure that out, first.
    Mind you, there are some visual things that would repel me, but there are no visuals that would attract me to the point of making a decision.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,639 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    These are young adult guys who can get it up and actually want to be in a romantic/sexual relationship (maybe not enough to do anything meaningful..) but due to attractiveness, mental issues and/or dysfunctional relationships with society, family, peers, are constantly unable to.

    It's a big thing on Reddit and the overall Red Pill.

    I would imagine that, of the people who would like to be in a romantic/sexual relationship but aren't in one due to the various reasons you mentioned, the vast vast majority of them are not into labels, not on Red Pill - they just get on with things and try to find ways to work things out for themselves.

    It's a small minority chooses to go down the path of labeling themselves as 'incel' or MGTOW or whatever, and seeking some way to claim (or fabricate) some agency over what is happening in their life...which more than likely involves... guess what... blaming others for all their problems. My sympathy for them ends when they go down that path.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    Shenshen wrote: »
    And women are not interested in "just having sex". Not a single woman on the planet is interested in that. That's what I've been trying to explain.

    "Just having sex" for a woman ranges from the physically uncomfortable to the rather painful. There is nothing in "just having sex" that's attractive to a woman.

    It's different for men. At the very least, there's some sort of climax involved for them.
    So if you define "sex" as "he gets to climax, she gets the need for some pain killers and a shower", then yes, obviously, there's little enough of that around that's easy for men to get.

    It's disturbing to think you might actually be serious.
    Not a single woman on the planet is interested in 'just having sex'. Really? none of them.
    Sex is painful or uncomfortable? Really? So what women can't become aroused unless they're with the love of their lives?
    Crazy stuff in this post! Carrrraaaaaazzzzeeee!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Plopsu wrote: »
    It's disturbing to think you might actually be serious.
    Not a single woman on the planet is interested in 'just having sex'. Really? none of them.
    Sex is painful or uncomfortable? Really? So what women can't become aroused unless they're with the love of their lives?
    Crazy stuff in this post! Carrrraaaaaazzzzeeee!


    mansplaining FTW


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Plopsu wrote: »
    It's disturbing to think you might actually be serious.
    Not a single woman on the planet is interested in 'just having sex'. Really? none of them.
    Sex is painful or uncomfortable? Really? So what women can't become aroused unless they're with the love of their lives?
    Crazy stuff in this post! Carrrraaaaaazzzzeeee!

    Not a single woman is interested in just sex with just anyone, just for the sake of having sex.
    Why would they?
    And who said anything about love of their life? I've absolutely no problem with casual sex, but that doesn't mean just anyone and just "horse it in there".
    And yes, sex without being aroused is uncomfortable and painful for women. I'm actually not all that surprised you don't seem aware of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    PucaMama wrote: »
    If we presume these women are having sexy with men then doesn't that mean there's an equal amount of men having sex?

    Well you'd think that but if you look at online dating stats its not the case. Girls swipe right like 10-20% of guys, and guys swipe right like 80% of girls on tinder. Okcupid did an article about it and it was similar stats
    https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/

    So yeh, make of that what ye will :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    k0fnz.jpg?a415656


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Well you'd think that but if you look at online dating stats its not the case. Girls swipe right like 10-20% of guys, and guys swipe right like 80% of girls on tinder. Okcupid did an article about it and it was similar stats
    https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/

    So yeh, make of that what ye will :p

    Women aren't attracted to photos?


  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Not a single woman is interested in just sex with just anyone, just for the sake of having sex.
    Why would they?
    And who said anything about love of their life? I've absolutely no problem with casual sex, but that doesn't mean just anyone and just "horse it in there".
    And yes, sex without being aroused is uncomfortable and painful for women. I'm actually not all that surprised you don't seem aware of that.


    Yes, sex without being aroused would be but that's not what you said, is it? You said just having sex was painful or uncomfortable for a woman suggesting that if she's just having sex, she's not aroused. In fact you've completely changed above what you had written before but not sufficient to lose the claim that you speak for all the women in the world.
    Last line doesn't surprise me in the least. People rarely like having their crazy pointed out to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Not a single woman is interested in just sex with just anyone, just for the sake of having sex.
    Why would they?
    And who said anything about love of their life? I've absolutely no problem with casual sex, but that doesn't mean just anyone and just "horse it in there".
    And yes, sex without being aroused is uncomfortable and painful for women. I'm actually not all that surprised you don't seem aware of that.

    Are one night stands not a thing..?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Plopsu wrote: »
    Yes, sex without being aroused would be but that's not what you said, is it? You said just having sex was painful or uncomfortable for a woman suggesting that if she's just having sex, she's not aroused. In fact you've completely changed above what you had written before but not sufficient to lose the claim that you speak for all the women in the world.
    Last line doesn't surprise me in the least. People rarely like having their crazy pointed out to them.

    That is exactly what I had written. "Just having sex" implies little to no interest on the side of the male partner other than his own satisfaction. Where do you think the female's arousal would come from? Falling from the sky?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Are one night stands not a thing..?

    Yes, they are. I do enjoy them. But I want a partner or partners who are not just interested their own fun. And so do most women, I would imagine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    Shenshen wrote: »
    That is exactly what I had written. "Just having sex" implies little to no interest on the side of the male partner other than his own satisfaction. Where do you think the female's arousal would come from? Falling from the sky?

    What you wrote was: And women are not interested in "just having sex". Not a single woman on the planet is interested in that.

    You now decided to back pedal furiously by decreeing: "Just having sex" implies little to no interest on the side of the male partner other than his own satisfaction.
    It doesn't! Just having sex means just having sex just like men and women are doing all over the planet right now because it feels good even without an emotional connection or potential relationship. Nice try though, Humpty!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    BILL COLLECTORS AT MY DOOR.



    what can you do for me...


    ba da da dum dum dum


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭LadyMacBeth_


    In general terms, I think women can have sex more easily than men. However, there are plenty of people who don't have many redeeming features that are in relationships so there is something else at play here with these men. Maybe it's a self-esteem or social anxiety issue, maybe it is their attitude towards women, maybe it's a combination of factors but it isn't because they are simply nice guys who don't have "it", whatever "it" is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 484 ✭✭jeanjolie


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Whereas to a woman, bad sex is worse than no sex. So yes, there is loads of very bad sex out there. But why should a woman go for that? There's no joy or satisfaction in it for her, after all.

    Bad sex would probably have prevented this guy from going on a gun rampage. Sure you must have seen him since his attack around the May of 2014

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail 2



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Bad sex would probably have prevented this guy from going on a gun rampage. Sure you must have seen him since his attack around the May of 2014

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail 2


    he sounds a real charmer. I'm shocked that he couldnt get laid. I'm not a woman but i cant imagine that "if i shag this guy i prevent a rampage" is on their list of reasons to have sex with somebody.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Bad sex would probably have prevented this guy from going on a gun rampage. Sure you must have seen him since his attack around the May of 2014

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail 2


    Eliot rodgers was just insane. He poured hot coffee on two girls sitting in a cafe chatting to each other just becase they never looked at/admired him while he was sitting nearby them

    He was a narcissist who wanted people to approach him and tell him he's beautiful and for hot girls to grovel at his feet

    He was not a bad looking guy Im sure he could have gotten sex if he was normal. But normal he was not


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,527 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Plopsu wrote: »
    What you wrote was: And women are not interested in "just having sex". Not a single woman on the planet is interested in that.

    You now decided to back pedal furiously by decreeing: "Just having sex" implies little to no interest on the side of the male partner other than his own satisfaction.
    It doesn't! Just having sex means just having sex just like men and women are doing all over the planet right now because it feels good even without an emotional connection or potential relationship. Nice try though, Humpty!

    It seemed pretty clear what she meant be the phrase "just having sex" and she's explained herself in great detail in follow up posts. You're just trying to score points now.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Bad sex would probably have prevented this guy from going on a gun rampage.

    I think you're giving bad sex an awful lot more credit than its due.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Bad sex would probably have prevented this guy from going on a gun rampage. Sure you must have seen him since his attack

    That's a pretty ridiculous assertion, the man was crazy.

    That man would likely have snapped regardless, he sounds exactly like the people you read about that murder their ex's.
    Women are far more likely to get murdered/ assaulted by partners/ ex's than strangers, so having pity sex with an unhinged partner is far more dangerous I'd imagine.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Bad sex would probably have prevented this guy from going on a gun rampage. Sure you must have seen him since his attack around the May of 2014

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail

    Elliot Rodger - Daily Mail 2


    I really hope he appreciated the irony of his surname being Rodger.


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