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Do you have sympathy for male 'incels (involuntary celibates)?

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    #152
    GritBiscuit
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭GritBiscuit


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Bad sex would probably have prevented this guy from going on a gun rampage.

    A healthy dose of reality, introspection and psychiatric care would do the same...and has the added benefit of not feeding into these guys delusions by holding women responsible for the actions of a handful of crazy men...


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    #153
    jeanjolie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 484 ✭✭jeanjolie


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Eliot Rodgers was just insane. He poured hot coffee on two girls sitting in a cafe chatting to each other just because they never looked at/admired him while he was sitting nearby them

    He was a narcissist who wanted people to approach him and tell him he's beautiful and for hot girls to grovel at his feet

    He was not a bad looking guy I'm sure he could have gotten sex if he was normal. But normal he was not

    Is it due to American culture along with mental illness that caused this?

    I don't think I've seen an Irish version of Elliot Rodger to be honest even factoring in the lack of firearm access. Don't think I've met any Irish lads who 'spoke like him in regards to women' if you know what I'm getting at.

    Do you know anyone like this?


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    #154
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,443 ✭✭✭tritium


    LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »
    In general terms, I think women can have sex more easily than men. However, there are plenty of people who don't have many redeeming features that are in relationships so there is something else at play here with these men. Maybe it's a self-esteem or social anxiety issue, maybe it is their attitude towards women, maybe it's a combination of factors but it isn't because they are simply nice guys who don't have "it", whatever "it" is.

    Are you applying that benchmark to all men who cant seem to get into a relationship?

    Would you make the same comment about women who cant seem to find themselves a relationship, for example the women looked at in the study I discussed earlier?


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    #155
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,443 ✭✭✭tritium


    GritBiscuit wrote: »
    A healthy dose of reality, introspection and psychiatric care would do the same...and has the added benefit of not feeding into these guys delusions by holding women responsible for the actions of a handful of crazy men...

    The bolded bit is important here. Its become somewhat fasionable to lump all men as some homogenous blob. In reality there is a very small number of extremists at both ends and taking them as somehow indicative of the nature of a much larger group is probably not the best way forward.....


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    #156
    LadyMacBeth_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭LadyMacBeth_


    tritium wrote: »
    Are you applying that benchmark to all men who cant seem to get into a relationship?

    Would you make the same comment about women who cant seem to find themselves a relationship, for example the women looked at in the study I discussed earlier?

    No, I'm applying that benchmark to men who refer to themselves as "incels".

    Though I think what I said can certainly be contributing factors for both men and women struggling to find a relationship.

    I have a female friend who is quite attractive and intelligent but struggles to find what she considers to be a suitable guy. I think it's because she has quite a misandrist attitude towards men and she also has some mental health issues that contribute too. It's definitely her attitude that causes the issues that don't allow her to have a successful relationship.


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    #157
    Plopsu
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    Arghus wrote: »
    It seemed pretty clear what she meant be the phrase "just having sex" and she's explained herself in great detail in follow up posts. You're just trying to score points now.

    If that's what she did mean, then it was a pretty peculiar thing to throw in as nobody had said anything about women having involuntary sex. But that wasn't what she meant and her subsequent explanations have been denials that she said what she said (you remember in the post where she literally spoke for every single woman in the world).

    Oh, and do you mean this kind of point scoring:

    'And yes, sex without being aroused is uncomfortable and painful for women. I'm actually not all that surprised you don't seem aware of that.'


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    #158
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    No.


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    #159
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Plopsu wrote: »
    If that's what she did mean, then it was a pretty peculiar thing to throw in as nobody had said anything about women having involuntary sex. But that wasn't what she meant and her subsequent explanations have been denials that she said what she said (you remember in the post where she literally spoke for every single woman in the world).

    Oh, and do you mean this kind of point scoring:

    'And yes, sex without being aroused is uncomfortable and painful for women. I'm actually not all that surprised you don't seem aware of that.'


    i think she knows what she meant better than you do. more mansplaining FTW


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    #160
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    Why do you assume these men are unhappy? He could be a perfectly nice sweet happily single guy? Not the type to whine on reddit.


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    #161
    Plopsu
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i think she knows what she meant better than you do. more mansplaining FTW

    The posts are there for all to see. I'll let people make their own minds up.
    That said, referring to disagreeing with somebody as 'mansplaining' makes me wonder why I'm bothering to reply to you at all.


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    #162
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i think she knows what she meant better than you do. more mansplaining FTW

    What is mansplaining?


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    #163
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    What is mansplaining?
    (of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.


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    #164
    Plopsu
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    What is mansplaining?

    What some women claim is going on when they're losing an argument?


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    #165
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,446 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    What is mansplaining?

    here is an object lesson in it :D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJyQpRfaGnw

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #166
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,443 ✭✭✭tritium


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    What is mansplaining?

    These days its usually defined as an accusation made to shut down debate you'd rather not have


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    #167
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    I am not saying it's a thing that goes on or you were doing it. But that is what the slang term means.


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    #168
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    tritium wrote: »
    These days its usually defined as an accusation made to shut down debate you'd rather not have


    or perhaps just to point out when somebody is being condescending. just a thought.


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    #169
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    Like if I tell someone about the form they have to fill in for an application and they go 'oh little girl that is not the way the world works I have to show the company my dick and wink and take them for drinks and it will be ok' That is an idiot mansplaining.


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    #170
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    Also mansplaining is NOT always a bad thing. In picking up chicks...mansplaining IS ACTUALLY SOMETIMES QUITE charming. It's all about situations.


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    #171
    Plopsu
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    or perhaps just to point out when somebody is being condescending. just a thought.

    Probably should have used that term instead, so. Then I could have explained to you how I wasn't being condescending.*

    See, that's condescension.


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    #172
    Glenster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    Not everything is a 'thing'

    I certainly wouldn't single out a group of men who haven't had sex with women for a while/ever as a distinct group in society worthy of sympathy.

    I'd have more sympathy for 'stubbies' (white gay men who recently stubbed their toe)


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    #173
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    Glenster wrote: »
    Not everything is a 'thing'

    I certainly wouldn't single out a group of men who haven't had sex with women for a while/ever as a distinct group in society worthy of sympathy.

    I'd have more sympathy for 'stubbies' (white gay men who recently stubbed their toe)
    I like this post! :D


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    #174
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Plopsu wrote: »
    Probably should have used that term instead, so. Then I could have explained to you how I wasn't being condescending.*

    See, that's condescension.


    actually, for once, your post isn't condescending. what an odd world we live in.


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    #175
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,446 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    or perhaps just to point out when somebody is being condescending. just a thought.

    but when has being condescending ever been a gender thing, some people might be but I don't see it as a male or female attribute.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #176
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    silverharp wrote: »
    but when has being condescending ever been a gender thing, some people might be but I don't see it as a male or female attribute.

    never said it was.


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    #177
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »
    In general terms, I think women can have sex more easily than men. However, there are plenty of people who don't have many redeeming features that are in relationships so there is something else at play here with these men. Maybe it's a self-esteem or social anxiety issue, maybe it is their attitude towards women, maybe it's a combination of factors but it isn't because they are simply nice guys who don't have "it", whatever "it" is.

    I don't agree with this. Mainly because women take a higher risk than men. I don't think it's easier, mentally at least. Women are generally not as strong as a man, and it's a pretty vulnerable position to put yourself in, usually in private, away from any safety net. A man can't get pregnant, some STDs are more serious and complicated for women than for men (hello, cervical cancer). You'd swear all a woman had to do was just pick someone off the street... but even if she fancies someone who may be up for it, these risk evaluations will end up with her talking herself out of it and brushing them off.

    There are plenty of women with low self esteem or social anxiety issues as well. I wouldn't say those are confined to men. I certainly know women who think they are too ____ fat / skinny / quiet / uninterested in makeup for any man to be interested, and are completely oblivious to any signals, as they are unexpected.


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    #178
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Glenster wrote: »
    Not everything is a 'thing'

    I certainly wouldn't single out a group of men who haven't had sex with women for a while/ever as a distinct group in society worthy of sympathy.

    Tbf, it's not other people in society pointing at people and saying 'Ahhh, look at the poor ickkle incel!'

    It's the men, high on self pity and a burning sense that it's all feminism's fault they can't get a shag, that are using the term 'incel' when they talk about themselves.


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    #179
    Plopsu
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    actually, for once, your post isn't condescending. what an odd world we live in.

    Ahh, so you don't use the word because you don't really know what it means. Now it's clear.


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    #180
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,446 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    never said it was.

    you kind of did, you seem to accept there should be a term for men who are condescending, or if you reject the term mansplaining we are in agreement
    or perhaps just to point out when somebody is being condescending. just a thought.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #181
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,457 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    silverharp wrote: »
    you kind of did, you seem to accept there should be a term for men who are condescending, or if you reject the term mansplaining we are in agreement

    men certainly seem more prone to it.


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