Do you have sympathy for male 'incels (involuntary celibates)?

jeanjolie

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Sorry, didn't read the whole thread.

His great qualities as person were under appreciated... so he decided to slaughter lots of innocent people!

I would have had much sympathy if he had instead target the bullies that rejected him i.e all his childhood ones and the guys who beat him up at a party.

TheBiz

That whole community is toxic.. I posted a comment on some random thread and I got 'you should swallow the redpill' as a reply..
I went to have a look, it's like a cult of negative reinforcement patting each other on the back convincing themselves they can't be in the wrong because how could so many people be in the wrong with them..
No wonder they can't meet someone.

I feel sorry for the people who are new to that group, they just want answers, they're the same people pick up artists prey on, I feel sorry for those who are so easily lured into that community of misogyny.

Ben Gadot

professore wrote: »

I had one pretty bad experience in my early 20s with a girl I fancied. I can see how if you had only those experiences with women it might make you bitter.

I have a theory that people - not just men - who have bad experiences are generally a type - very open and naïve, the kind who put others first all the time are preyed upon, much like bullies choose their targets. Pro tip - incels, nothing turns women off quicker than a doormat.

With guys, if they have never told anyone to **** off or stood up for themselves, all that anger gets bottled up inside, and has to come out somewhere, on these fora, or to extremes, shooting up schools or blowing up children at a concert.

With women, they become radical man hating feminists.

Or I could be completely wrong. Definitely more correct than the toxic masculinity narrative we are fed.
EDIT: Actually the experience I had wasn't that bad, I've seen much worse

It's in some people's nature to be giving. That doesn't mean they're a doormat.

Some people just know how to pick their battles rather than feeling a need to throw a wobbler at the first sign of perceived disrespect.

Potatoeman

I struggled in my early to mid twenties, I was pretty skinny but I hit the gym and bulked up. The rejections knock your confidence which makes you less attractive, you need to step back and work on yourself when this happens. Desperation is not attractive, lots of men in their early twenties have it and women in their mid thirties too. By the time I hit my late twenties things were completely different. The problem was that women my own age were looking for commitment so I dated younger women. That's the way things seem to break down. There are less single women than men in their early twenties and less single men than women in their thirties.

I hope those forums are only guys letting off steam as there is nothing more unattractive than someone that is unhappy and has a chip on their shoulder. Single women in their thirties should take note of this too as I know some unhappy women in their thirties and it's not attractive. People talk and no one wants to get into a relationship with a moody angry person. You might be nice as pie 90% of the time but if someone get a hint of this they will run a mile.

ilkhanid

tritium wrote: »

Hlarious how quickly some of the regular posters here jumped in to label them all misogynists though. A few crazy posts somewhere on the internet and all of a sudden the whole group are women haters. Apparently some groups can claim to 'not be a hive mind' when their extremists are called out while other groups, like this one, all deserve to be tarred with a common brush- mind boggling the double standards we see at times.

Totally agree. I believe that many,if not most of these men, may be suffering from High Functioning Autism (or, formerly, Aspergers). This especially damages the ability to communicate. It's worst of all if undiagnosed, leaving the man frustrated, lonely and angry, wondering what's wrong with him.

jeanjolie

Potatoeman wrote: »

I struggled in my early to mid twenties, I was pretty skinny but I hit the gym and bulked up. The rejections knock your confidence which makes you less attractive, you need to step back and work on yourself when this happens

Would you apply this same advice to women struggling in their 20s or is it exclusive for men?

Potatoeman wrote: »

The problem was that women my own age were looking for commitment so I dated younger women. That's the way things seem to break down. There are less single women than men in their early twenties and less single men than women in their thirties.

Can I ask how this happens? I know that men end up with younger women but never understood if it's a deal-breaker up front before dating. I can understand height seeing as it's obvious, but do you ask someone their age?

pickarooney

Women in their 20s are pretty much desirable by default. Not all of them realise it until later.

wakka12

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I bet this dude was probably an "incel"...

No sympathy for people that blame the rest of the world for their own failings!

Yes he's quite possibly the most infamous 'incel' actually..

Potatoeman

jeanjolie wrote: »

Would you apply this same advice to women struggling in their 20s or is it exclusive for men?

Sure, everyone should try and improve themselves. It improves your options. Confidence for guys though is very important, if you hit a slump it can snowball.

jeanjolie wrote: »

Can I ask how this happens? I know that men end up with younger women but never understood if it's a deal-breaker up front before dating. I can understand height seeing as it's obvious, but do you ask someone their age?

It depends how things go, if you meet the right person things can just happen but the more options you have the easier it is to not commit. Most women at a certain age have a timetable in mind as to how quickly things should go and if you date younger you get extra time. There are studies on this attraction to younger women and apparently it's related to fertility too.

This works the other way too. If you know an average looking women in her thirties struggling to find a guy to settle down with, there is probably at least one guy she dumped in her twenties that she wouldn't dump now and may not even be able to tell you why she dumped him at the time.

RabbleRouser2k

pickarooney wrote: »

Women in their 20s are pretty much desirable by default. Not all of them realise it until later.

Yes and no-like, I like women younger than me, for sure, but then there are women who are Older, who I'm like 'whoa-like, dayumm'.
(There's an actress in Vikings who's blonde, beautiful, and pushing 40-she looks wayy younger, and she's seriously fit).
Sometimes you meet a girl who literally thinks she has it all figured out, and those are the most irritating, tbh. On the other hand, you meet a girl who's open minded, who you wanna know about, and she's way more interesting.
Also, cute girls-like, really cute girls, often have this charm when they 'don't' know it, or don't let on they do. It's hard to describe, but it's sorta makes em more desirable.

Potatoeman wrote: »

Sure, everyone should try and improve themselves. It improves your options. Confidence for guys though is very important, if you hit a slump it can snowball.

It depends how things go, if you meet the right person things can just happen but the more options you have the easier it is to not commit. Most women at a certain age have a timetable in mind as to how quickly things should go and if you date younger you get extra time. There are studies on this attraction to younger women and apparently it's related to fertility too.

I've generally seen my self as a lone wolf-even if I did meet 'the one' kids are not in the picture. Confidence has always been an issue for me, so if I meet someone new-I try and be friendly and confident but not 'I'm so great-aren't I?'. And after a while, I let the 'confidence' slowly fade out-and let them see yeah, I'm just human.

I have seen a rather strange trend of girls getting married really, really young-like, 20+upwards. (Some barely had the leaving cert done). And no, this is not traveller family's where it's part of the culture. I have no idea why someone would marry that young-travel, live life, get hammered drunk so badly you barely remember where that stop sign came from. Just enjoy yourself. I know a lot of women fantasize about 'their day' but most fantasize. I know girls who were planning theirs during secondary school-then only a few years later, were walking down the aisle.

Potatoeman

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Yes and no-like, I like women younger than me, for sure, but then there are women who are Older, who I'm like 'whoa-like, dayumm'.
(There's an actress in Vikings who's blonde, beautiful, and pushing 40-she looks wayy younger, and she's seriously fit).
Sometimes you meet a girl who literally thinks she has it all figured out, and those are the most irritating, tbh. On the other hand, you meet a girl who's open minded, who you wanna know about, and she's way more interesting.
Also, cute girls-like, really cute girls, often have this charm when they 'don't' know it, or don't let on they do. It's hard to describe, but it's sorta makes em more desirable.



I've generally seen my self as a lone wolf-even if I did meet 'the one' kids are not in the picture. Confidence has always been an issue for me, so if I meet someone new-I try and be friendly and confident but not 'I'm so great-aren't I?'. And after a while, I let the 'confidence' slowly fade out-and let them see yeah, I'm just human.

I have seen a rather strange trend of girls getting married really, really young-like, 20+upwards. (Some barely had the leaving cert done). And no, this is not traveller family's where it's part of the culture. I have no idea why someone would marry that young-travel, live life, get hammered drunk so badly you barely remember where that stop sign came from. Just enjoy yourself. I know a lot of women fantasize about 'their day' but most fantasize. I know girls who were planning theirs during secondary school-then only a few years later, were walking down the aisle.

You know what they say about the next generation rebelling against the previous one. I think there is a bit of that going on.
There also seems to be frequent stories of women in their thirties that have it all except a partner. That might influence younger women to not miss their opportunities.
I remember reading a survey that found men were more interested in marriage when younger and it faded as they got older but women had the opposite, they wanted it more the older they got. So there are different priorities going on.

bodice ripper

I am a 35 year old woman, and I am not in any rush of any sort to find someone. It might never happen, but I don't think my age would be the issue there.

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in someone under 30, and would prefer someone older than myself.

Roger Hassenforder

bodice ripper wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in someone under 30, and would prefer someone older than myself.

How much older?
I'm eh, asking for a friend...

Nabber

Icel Reddits are fascinating. I was lost wit the whole Chad and Stacy thing. Then referring to each other by race/nationality... currycel!!!

Some points make sense but they are washed with a whole lot of blaming.

Some of them are just weird, we don't always need to reach for mental health issues.

scopper

This is my new fave subculture

Basically a bunch of dudes too lazy to like do the bare minimum to attract women have generated an entire subculture to cover over the fact.

Grow a beard.

Work out.

Smile more.

Sorted.

DredFX

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this guy has already been mentioned. he went on a gun rampage.

The sad thing about Elliot Rodger is that he probably had the means to be attractive. He wasn't (physically) hideous, apparently had a good lifestyle, and lived in an area filled with women he could have met.

But he came across to me as the sort of guy who'd walk into a cafe wearing a pair of sunglasses and sit at a table alone, waiting for a girl to ask him out. Even if he had been approached by a girl for a conversation, I bet he would've thrown his nose up in the hopes that she'd chase him. Ego, ego, ego.

Which would be no surprise for someone who attacked women and stalked young couples home out of jealousy.

SGSM

scopper wrote:

Smile more.

Ya can smile too much as well though. I found out a girl I kinda knew called me weird for being too friendly and another girl i work with said I'm a delight to see as I smile so much compared to 'all the other miserable folk' working there. All about balance, I'm trying to adopt a more of a mysterious persona now and not be as open at an initial meeting with a woman cos the opposite approach hasn't yielded much success.

scopper

SGSM wrote: »

Ya can smile too much as well though. I found out a girl I kinda knew called me weird for being too friendly and another girl i work with said I'm a delight to see as I smile so much compared to 'all the other miserable folk' working there. All about balance, I'm trying to adopt a more of a mysterious persona now and not be as open at an initial meeting with a woman cos the opposite approach hasn't yielded much success.

Don't get too mysterious, after a while it just looks like autism

wakka12

Nabber wrote: »

Icel Reddits are fascinating. I was lost wit the whole Chad and Stacy thing. Then referring to each other by race/nationality... currycel!!!

Some points make sense but they are washed with a whole lot of blaming.

Some of them are just weird, we don't always need to reach for mental health issues.

Yeh , I never understood why racism seemed to go so hand in hand with that community

Potatoeman

scopper wrote: »

Don't get too mysterious, after a while it just looks like autism

Are you on the spectrum?

No, but I have a PlayStation.

RabbleRouser2k

Potatoeman wrote: »

You know what they say about the next generation rebelling against the previous one. I think there is a bit of that going on.
There also seems to be frequent stories of women in their thirties that have it all except a partner. That might influence younger women to not miss their opportunities.
I remember reading a survey that found men were more interested in marriage when younger and it faded as they got older but women had the opposite, they wanted it more the older they got. So there are different priorities going on.

I knew someone like that-i.e she hit the 30 mark, was like 'I want a man now' and then had it all planned out-like kids at 35/36 (didn't have the heart to tell her that fertility will drop enormously by then). But a lot of her friends, family were in steady relationships/ engaged/ married with kids, and she was single. So she wanted a man. Did the Tinder thing, and aimed younger, as in she went for guys who were mid 20's to late 20s.

Well, most of those guys literally want to sow their oats (Tinder/ Pof I mean). One guy played her around, like two dates, then weeks later for the 'third date' he called her one day when she was vulnerable-ie tough day at work, a close family member being unwell, came to her house, drank a few beers, ate a few crisps, showed her his nieces & nephews' photos on his phone, got sex, and left an hour later.

Another one seemed to be going grand, kind of Then a few days after her 31st, he told her 'he wasn't ready for a relationship' which is codeword for 'I'm ready for a relationship--just with anyone else but you...''.

I wanted to feel pity for her-but tbh, she had pretty terrible taste in dudes.

tigger123

Just had a scroll around that subredit and its utterly pathetic.

I had a glance, I didn't read past the first page thread titles. A selection:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6gbawz/rape_and_inceldom_are_both_bad_in_the_same_way/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6ge45y/women_are_incapable_of_love/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6g9gif/there_is_no_good_to_be_found_in_women/

It is extremely difficult to figure out why these guys are single.

ceadaoin.

Candie wrote: »

I had a glance, I didn't read past the first page thread titles. A selection:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6gbawz/rape_and_inceldom_are_both_bad_in_the_same_way/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6ge45y/women_are_incapable_of_love/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6g9gif/there_is_no_good_to_be_found_in_women/

It is extremely difficult to figure out why these guys are single.

The first two comments in that first thread

Females actually have more orgasms during rape than during normal intercourse

Being incel in the west is way worse than being a Jew in Nazi Germany.

Yes, I can't imagine why they can't get a woman. I mean, being denied sex is literally worse than the holocaust. Ffs

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yes, I can't imagine why they can't get a woman. I mean, being denied sex is literally worse than the holocaust. Ffs

Yes but people felt sorry for the Jews, and no one feels sorry for the incels Poor bunnies.

A lot of the time they refer to women as 'femoids', apparently because they don't like to have them associated with males by calling them females, because they hate them so much.

There's also another thread I spotted on how raping someone is the greatest compliment you can pay them.

Anyway, I need to take a shower after reading too much of that subreddit.

jeanjolie

Candie wrote: »

Anyway, I need to take a shower after reading too much of that subreddit.

Hopefully you don't add Zylkon B to your soap mate...:D

pangbang

scopper wrote: »

This is my new fave subculture

Basically a bunch of dudes too lazy to like do the bare minimum to attract women have generated an entire subculture to cover over the fact.

Grow a beard.

Work out.

Smile more.

Sorted.

The idea is to attract women, not connor McGregor/hipster fans. Couldn't achieve the opposite any more if you tried :P

Nabber

Suicide fuel is all I can read from those guys. Blackpill, redpill, bluepill, Stacy, Chad, Roastie, Normie, blackcel, incel, currycel, gymcel....

It's a fascinating subculture, it has more pictures of naked men then women. They want a woman so bad that they hate them. Any normal interaction with women is played off as her just being a bitch.

I'll keep reading on. Some of them seem genuine, the one about using a prostitute, some of the guys are saying they want love and not just sex so they abstain from paying for sex.

I do feel sorry for those guys.

snowflaker

If you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love somebody else?
-Ru Paul

Nabber

Nabber wrote: »

Suicide fuel is all I can read from those guys. Blackpill, redpill, bluepill, Stacy, Chad, Roastie, Normie, blackcel, incel, currycel, gymcel....

It's a fascinating subculture, it has more pictures of naked men then women. They want a woman so bad that they hate them. Any normal interaction with women is played off as her just being a bitch.

I'll keep reading on. Some of them seem genuine, the one about using a prostitute, some of the guys are saying they want love and not just sex so they abstain from paying for sex.

I do feel sorry for those guys.

I feel sorry for some, maybe even most of them. Many of them seem to have desperately low self esteem and so many problems relating normally to people that I'd imagine there are some kind of functional issues at play.

I don't feel sorry for some of them, who advocate rape and say things like they wish all women died horribly, or that even the sound of a woman laughing makes him want to kill her. Obviously some of the guys who say this kind of thing are ill, but some of them are so fuelled by hate that they're dangerous, and it's hard to feel sorry for someone who poses a danger to you simply because you're a woman.