Ryanair seating policy changes

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

JCX BXC

billy few mates wrote: »

Some people might be self conscious about eating around strangers, I was peckish but I wasn't about to start tearing into a breakfast roll with two strangers either side of me.

Really? Honestly never would bother me personally whatsoever. Have gouged into Ryanairs dry tasting chips (and a strong smelling pot noodle)before with strangers both sides of me, never occurred to me.

AlekSmart

billy few mates wrote: »

I can't help wondering if this new policy is having an unintended affect on inflight sales. The cabin crew did two passes through the cabin with the catering trolley and from what I saw I think they only sold two cups of coffee, I don't think they sold anything at all from the 'duty free' trolley. Some people might be self conscious about eating around strangers, I was peckish but I wasn't about to start tearing into a breakfast roll with two strangers either side of me.
I flew on RYR recently with the other half and she was at the front while I was at the back, neither of us were bothered and I certainly wasn't about to pay a premium to sit together, not because of a protest or anything it's just that I think my money could be better spent. Don't pay to sit together and use the savings to pay for lunch when you arrive.

Good point,well made !

This latest Ryanair "initative" appears to have come from somebody with limited real-world life experience,particularly of travelling in groups or family settings.

I suspect a young trench-coated,Apple inc loving,recently graduated accountancy chap/ess had a look at a 737-800 seating plan,a quarterly load-factor analysis sheet and spotted a Mathematical opportunity..."HEY !!! they shouted excitedly...Eureka !....this will get me a seat at the right hand of God at the next Board Meeting".... :eek:

Which,it undoubtedly did.......however,that same unfortunate,with little real-world experience behind them,most likely never even considered that people,in familial,group situations,often become THE most difficult to cater for or control.

Splitting family groups,removing several people from their comfort zones,ON EVERY FLIGHT,will most certainly have a negative impact on In-Cabin sales,a situation which will now become the new norm for Ryanair....I give it an accounting period,before somebody with sense (perhaps Micheal O'Leary),will quietly shelve this codology

Question is....what Always Getting Better "initiative" will replace it !!!!

satguy

I fly with my wife alot, We buy grub, nuts/sambos/anything. We will always buy some of those small cans of lager beer, sold at sky high prices with cheap plastic cups.

If I was to find myself on my own, I can never see myself munching and sipping beer on my own, where is the fun in that.

I may however close my eyes and let on I'm asleep, or even better, really sleep, and only wake when people clap when the plane lands because we are all still alive, and that ball of tension we all have in the pit of our stomachs was just hunger pains.

Blut2

Its pretty funny how much bad-will this move is generating, its still regular getting headlines in the papers. Its definitely undermining their new "customer friendly" efforts of the last 18 months or so quite significantly.

Stevek101

In flight sales have been down before this was introduced. They put prices up on most things around late Feb / March. From my experience so far you can just move one pax for around €4-6 depending on the flight. All flights I have booked since the change offer seats for €2 each per sector. So you are really just better off splashing out then, it goes up to €4/6 straight after you book.

abff

When I travelled with Ryanair a few days ago, I was randomly allocated a seat in the middle or row 1 and my wife was allocated a seat in the middle of row 3. I was delighted to have the extra leg room and was also first off the plane - so result all round.

But I could see the cabin crew getting continually hassled by people wanting to move seats. It seems to me that that they are the ones most badly affected by this - having to deal with complaining passengers on every flight. So, whatever about this recent change not being customer friendly, it's definitely not employee friendly.

sondagefaux

Tenger wrote: »

Its very easy to jump on the bandwagon with a story about Ryanair and shout "scam" But there are a limited number of seats on the plane (189 in fact) So just like going to the cinema on opening night of a big film, if a large portion of the other passengers pre-select seats then you will be left with little or no choice on where you get to seat yourself.
If the flight is full you will not be guaranteed getting a seat beside your mate. We are now in the busy summer travel period. (I dont think FR really have much of a low season with their very focused fleet/load/fare mgmt system in place) And obviously single travellers will select windows and aisles first so middle seats are left. So if their are 10-15 empty seats on a flight I bet they will be middle or aisle seats. (couples like to take the window and middle!)

I got sent some images today of a range of recent FR booked loads. I cant tell you who sent them or what day they were from but have a look at the number to the very right of the image. It shows the total number of booked on each sector, all I see are numbers over 160, with >189 showing quite often.
(Meaning that yes, Ryanair overbook their aircraft)

All airlines overbook their flights.

They know that a certain percentage of passengers won't turn up and they know that they can sell some seats on flights twice over.

It's an easy way to make money, it rarely inconveniences passengers (unless the airlines go overboard and start overbooking to a ridiculous degree) and, in the event that all the booked passengers actually turn up and the aircraft hasn't got enough seats, airlines must request that passengers voluntarily not fly, advise passengers of their legal rights, and compensate people who are denied boarding involuntarily (such passenger can choose the refund and compensation option), or book them onto the next available flight (all under EU law) and provide them with meals and accommodation while waiting if they choose alternative flight options.

If I'd paid €50 return for a Ryanair flight and I was denied boarding because it was overbooked, I'd gladly take the refund and compensation option.

Denied boarding means that the airline has refused to accommodate you on scheduled flights and charters although you have a valid ticket, you have confirmed your reservation on your flight and you have presented yourself for check-in within the required time limit as stipulated by the airline.

Denied boarding happens when airlines sell more tickets for a scheduled flight than there are seats on the aircraft.

Volunteers
Where a flight is overbooked the airline will first call for volunteers to surrender their confirmed reservations to the airline in exchange for agreed benefits. The volunteers are also entitled to a choice of:

Refund of the cost of their ticket within 7 days if not wishing to travel or
Re-routing to their final destination at the earliest opportunity or
Re-routing at a later date at the passenger’s convenience, subject to availability of seats

Non-volunteers
If there are not enough volunteers, the airline may deny boarding to passengers against their will but must compensate them and offer the appropriate assistance set out in the Regulation.

You must also be offered a choice of:

Refund of the cost of your ticket within 7 days if not wishing to travel or
Re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or
Re-routing at a later date at your convenience, subject to availability of seats
A refund is a full refund of the ticket for the part or parts of the journey you have not made and for the part or parts you have already made, if the flight is no longer serving any purpose to your original travel plan. When relevant, it also includes a return flight to your first point of departure at the earliest opportunity.

If you choose a refund, compensation must also be paid. The amount you are entitled to depends on the distance of the flight that you have not been allowed to board. See Compensation below.

If you choose re-routing, the compensation that is paid depends on the length of delay past the original planned time in arriving at your final destination. See Compensation below.

Free meals and refreshments must be offered in reasonable relation to the waiting time. Hotel accommodation must also be offered free of charge where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, as well as transport between the hotel and the airport.

...


Refunds and re-routing
If you choose a refund and you are entitled to compensation, the amount you are entitled to depends on the type of flight. See Compensation below.

Where the choice is re-routing, the compensation that is paid depends on the length of delay past the original planned time in arriving at your final destination. See Compensation below.

Free meals and refreshments must be offered in reasonable relation to the waiting time. Hotel accommodation must also be offered free of charge where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, as well as transport between the hotel and the airport.

Compensation when getting a refund
Where a refund of the cost of the ticket is chosen and you are also entitled to compensation, the following compensation must be paid:

Type of flight Compensation
Flights of 1,500 km or less €250
Flights of over 1,500 km within the EU and
other flights between 1,500 and 3,500 km €400
All other flights €600

Most Ryanair flights are of 1,500km or less so most of them would involve compensation of €250.00 plus a refund of the cost of travel for the leg of the flight you're denied boarding on.

The compensation amounts are per passenger - a family of four denied boarding would get €1,000 (assuming the flight is 1500km or less) plus a refund for the flight legs they're denied boarding on.

If they could get flights the same/next day for less than the cost of the compensation and refunds combined, a short delay to their travel plans could net them a handy few quid.

For passengers travelling in the EU, or with EU airlines, being denied board involuntarily due to overbooking isn't necessarily terrible - you have a choice of options and can choose refund and compensation to make up for the inconvenience.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/air_travel/compensation_for_overbooked_and_delayed_flights.html

EU law - can't bate it!

Fred Swanson

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IQO

For those that got assigned middle seats recently after check in, was the check in done a few days before the flight? Perhaps it could be worth it to wait 10 to 4 hours before the flight to check in, as I'd assume that other passengers got assigned the middle seats (and being shown the options to get reassigned to an aisle or window seat). In case more passengers wouldn't proceed to paying those 4 euros, I'd think the chances are higher to get a window or aisle seat (for single travelers) as close as possible to the departure time? Would such theory be correct?

corcaigh07

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The fare initially displayed means random seating though. If the passengers are happy with that then there's no issue.

If however they want reserved seating next to a travelling companion(s) they can add the cost of that to their fare. Again that makes perfect sense.

It's a bit dim however to just pay minimum fare and still expect to be seated together.

Hardly. My return flight home is with Aer Lingus. I could pick free seats together from half of the airplane.

Nobody generally were separated on the same booking with Ryanair before.

abff

I think the issue here is that Ryanair have recently changed their policy to use an algorithm that practically ensures people travelling on the same booking will be sitting apart from each other, unless they are prepared to pay extra to choose what seats they will sit it. This defies all logic (other than when viewed as a revenue generating exercise), is out of line with what other carriers are doing and is creating a lot of ill will towards Ryanair and a lot of hassle for their cabin crew.

It's just a BAD idea - plain and simple.

Irish Steve

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The fare initially displayed means random seating though. If the passengers are happy with that then there's no issue.

If however they want reserved seating next to a travelling companion(s) they can add the cost of that to their fare. Again that makes perfect sense.

It's a bit dim however to just pay minimum fare and still expect to be seated together.

It's not dim, as sitting together has been the norm for as long as I can remember, and is still usually the case with pretty much every other carrier that operates out of Dublin.

It might make sense to a beancounter that wants to gouge the travelling public for every cent they can, but to the vast majority of people who travel by air, and historically have been used to being in seats together on almost all carriers, it is an unwelcome change of policy that is at best petty, and it also has the potential to cause delays, as people seek to change where they sit. Where it could cause significant delays is if one member of the family has the boarding passes on the phone, and then as a result of random allocations, some of the family are boarding through the front steps, and the rest are boarding through the rear steps. One mobile phone can't be in two places at the same time, so that's going to mean cabin congestion as all the members of the family will have to be together in order to keep the boarding check happy.

This IS a change of attitude, if they can get away with it, that's their call, but for me, I will look at other alternatives on the same route now, simply because having to pay almost the same again for allocated seating as the original fare is not just a little extra, it's the difference between using Ryanair or another carrier.

.G.

Booked flights recently, compared Ryanair to Aer lingus, ended up booking with Ryanair with priority boarding and assigned seats and it was still 50 quid less than Aer lingus was without any of that. It's a pain in the arse that they force you to pay but it's still cheaper than those who don't.

Have also flown on the same flight twice this year, once before the change and once after, the flight after the change boarded earlier and quicker than the other one and we left on time as opposed to 20 minutes late the first time. I might have got lucky with that one but the new policy is definitely not guaranteed hassle and doom and gloom.

Henry Ford III

Irish Steve wrote: »

It's not dim, as sitting together has been the norm for as long as I can remember, and is still usually the case with pretty much every other carrier that operates out of Dublin.

It might make sense to a beancounter that wants to gouge the travelling public for every cent they can, but to the vast majority of people who travel by air, and historically have been used to being in seats together on almost all carriers, it is an unwelcome change of policy that is at best petty, and it also has the potential to cause delays, as people seek to change where they sit. Where it could cause significant delays is if one member of the family has the boarding passes on the phone, and then as a result of random allocations, some of the family are boarding through the front steps, and the rest are boarding through the rear steps. One mobile phone can't be in two places at the same time, so that's going to mean cabin congestion as all the members of the family will have to be together in order to keep the boarding check happy.

This IS a change of attitude, if they can get away with it, that's their call, but for me, I will look at other alternatives on the same route now, simply because having to pay almost the same again for allocated seating as the original fare is not just a little extra, it's the difference between using Ryanair or another carrier.

Change happens. We might not always like it but it'll still happen. There was a time when people smoked in pubs, and drove home after a few beers.

If a group elect to take random seating and check in and have the boarding passes all on one device they are frankly pretty dense.

IQO

IQO wrote: »

For those that got assigned middle seats recently after check in, was the check in done a few days before the flight? Perhaps it could be worth it to wait 10 to 4 hours before the flight to check in, as I'd assume that other passengers got assigned the middle seats (and being shown the options to get reassigned to an aisle or window seat). In case more passengers wouldn't proceed to paying those 4 euros, I'd think the chances are higher to get a window or aisle seat (for single travelers) as close as possible to the departure time? Would such theory be correct?

On a trip last month, checked in 4 days before traveling outward journey and got middle seats, opposite ends of plane. Checked in for return journey one day beforehand and both got window seats, rear and middle of plane.

Irish Steve

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Change happens. We might not always like it but it'll still happen. There was a time when people smoked in pubs, and drove home after a few beers.

If a group elect to take random seating and check in and have the boarding passes all on one device they are frankly pretty dense.

Really? So what do you suggest for a family of 2 people who have one device between them that is capable of being used for on line checkin, and capable of holding a boarding card, and who can't process check in via an alternative method unless they are prepared to be gouged?

Up until now, it was almost certain that they would be very close to each other, now, the system seems to take perverse delight in putting them as far as possible from each other.

There are good valid reasons for changing the policy on smoking and drinking, the ONLY advantage in this change is extra income for Ryanair, there is no gain of any sort for the passengers.

abff

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Change happens. We might not always like it but it'll still happen. There was a time when people smoked in pubs, and drove home after a few beers.

If a group elect to take random seating and check in and have the boarding passes all on one device they are frankly pretty dense.

Yes, but those changes were made for health and safety reasons and are for the general good. Ryanair's change is ill conceived, petty and counterproductive.

Before the change, people had the choice of paying extra to choose the seats they want or taking potluck. If the latter, they would probably still end up sitting together unless they were a very large group or left it very late to check in. But the location of the seats would generally not be as good as if they had paid to preselect them.

As regards people having all their boarding passes on one device, has it occurred to you that they might only have one smartphone, or might not be very tech savvy? And getting boarding cards printed while away on holidays can sometimes prove problematic.

Anyway, attacking people for being dense doesn't alter the fact that Ryanair have got it wrong with this latest change. It will be interesting to see if common sense prevails over obstinacy and pride.

Henry Ford III

Irish Steve wrote: »

Really? So what do you suggest for a family of 2 people who have one device between them that is capable of being used for on line checkin, and capable of holding a boarding card, and who can't process check in via an alternative method unless they are prepared to be gouged?

Up until now, it was almost certain that they would be very close to each other, now, the system seems to take perverse delight in putting them as far as possible from each other.

There are good valid reasons for changing the policy on smoking and drinking, the ONLY advantage in this change is extra income for Ryanair, there is no gain of any sort for the passengers.

I'd suggest they access a computer with a printer at the appropriate time. I'd also suggest they pay for allocated seating if they wish to sit together.

I booked flights yesterday with Ryanair. Paid €3 per person per leg for allocated seating. Also paid for priority boarding - €2.50 per person per leg.

All sync'd back to my mobile immediately.

It's not expensive, and it'd be hard to think of a better way to do it logistically.

p.s. People will always find reason to take offense if that's their mindset.

Henry Ford III

abff wrote: »

Yes, but those changes were made for health and safety reasons and are for the general good. Ryanair's change is ill conceived, petty and counterproductive.

Before the change, people had the choice of paying extra to choose the seats they want or taking potluck. If the latter, they would probably still end up sitting together unless they were a very large group or left it very late to check in. But the location of the seats would generally not be as good as if they had paid to preselect them.

As regards people having all their boarding passes on one device, has it occurred to you that they might only have one smartphone, or might not be very tech savvy? And getting boarding cards printed while away on holidays can sometimes prove problematic.

Anyway, attacking people for being dense doesn't alter the fact that Ryanair have got it wrong with this latest change. It will be interesting to see if common sense prevails over obstinacy and pride.

Think about it for a sec.

Revenue wise Ryanair carry c.11,800,000 passengers p.a. currently and that's still growing.

Under the "old" system buying allocated seating wasn't a great idea, as all you'd have to have done is check in at the same time as your travelling companions and chances are you'd be beside them on the flight. In effect Ryanair were giving away something for nothing.

They've now changed that, and introduced truly random seating. I reckon that's fair enough. It's their plane and we can pay a small fee to sit with whom we chose, or else don't and seated anywhere.

This change will encourage people purchase allocated seats, and the financial benefits are potentially pretty big.

trellheim

They've now changed that, and introduced truly random seating. I reckon that's fair enough.

They have made no mention of this; in fact IIRC they said they changed nothing.

JCX BXC

"Truly random seating" that deliberately sits people in middle seats first.

Very random indeed.

Henry Ford III

JCX BXC wrote: »

"Truly random seating" that deliberately sits people in middle seats first.

Very random indeed.

Ok think of it another way.

1/. Pay a small amount and pick your seat.

2/. Don't pay and let Ryanair pick your seat.

LXFlyer

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Think about it for a sec.

Revenue wise Ryanair carry c.11,800,000 passengers p.a. currently and that's still growing.

Under the "old" system buying allocated seating wasn't a great idea, as all you'd have to have done is check in at the same time as your travelling companions and chances are you'd be beside them on the flight. In effect Ryanair were giving away something for nothing.

They've now changed that, and introduced truly random seating. I reckon that's fair enough. It's their plane and we can pay a small fee to sit with whom we chose, or else don't and seated anywhere.

This change will encourage people purchase allocated seats, and the financial benefits are potentially pretty big.

trellheim wrote: »

They have made no mention of this; in fact IIRC they said they changed nothing.

I think that's precisely the thing that is infuriating most people.

Ryanair are saying in public that they have not changed anything regarding the seat allocation process.

Yet clearly they have.

If they at least admitted that much, and clearly said that if you want to ensure that you sit together then you need to pay the extra amount, then I don't think people would be so annoyed.

But they haven't, and are saying the opposite. That's not going to win them much kudos from their customers.

JCX BXC

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ok think of it another way.

1/. Pay a small amount and pick your seat.

2/. Don't pay and let Ryanair pick your seat.

I've no problem with the seat issue, however you cannot say it's random when it's clear as day not.

dzilla

Got 4 flights in the past week with them, paid for an allocated seat each time. I really don't know what to make of it to be honest. I got my preferred aisle seat as that is what I paid for however once in the air the amount of folk chopping and changing seats to sit next to loved ones and friends just leads to unnecessary disruption.

A nervous flyer ended up in the emergency exit and as there was a free seat next to me the staff asked her to move next to me, she was nervous and would only sit in the aisle so had to give up the seat for her and move into the middle, could have gone up to the exit seat I guess but my baggage was already stowed above
and the plane was taxi-ing so the crew where trying to get it all sorted quick sharp. I know that this is an exceptional circumstance etc but if people are asking you to swap with them 80% of people will just agree so as there is no uneasyness with the person you are sitting next to on the flight.

There was a stag on the flight on Friday, about 15 lads dotted around the plane on essentially a 30 minute flight, unfortunately they must have all got separation anxiety because they all insisted in congregating at the back of the plane to have the chats for the flight. All in all a general nuisance. I feel Ryanair have crapped on all the good work they have done customer service wise in recent months.

Car99

[/QUOTE]

Think about it for a sec.

Revenue wise Ryanair carry c.11,800,000 passengers p.a. currently [/quote]


Just a small point Ryanair carry 130,000,000 + passengers per year . If one quarter of those pax opt to pay for their seat it makes a substantial positive impact on the end of year balance books.

Henry Ford III

JCX BXC wrote: »

I've no problem with the seat issue, however you cannot say it's random when it's clear as day not.

It's far from clear I reckon. I'm sure they use complex alorgithms (as most airlines do) to decide who sits where.

Once we realise that chosing not to pay for allocated seating means we might end up anywhere it all falls into place.

My next flight as I mentioned has priority boarding and allocated seating so I'll be in my selected seat comfortably awaiting the chaos that'll doubtless ensue.

I won't be moving so that some cheapskates can sit together either

endacl

Suits me. There's no comfortable seat on a Ryanair flight. The only thing that makes the flight bearable is getting stuck into a good book. Can't do that with herself beside me, chatting all the way!

:pac:

plodder

endacl wrote: »

Suits me. There's no comfortable seat on a Ryanair flight. The only thing that makes the flight bearable is getting stuck into a good book. Can't do that with herself beside me, chatting all the way!

:pac:

So, if they're charging five euros to get a guaranteed seat, maybe they could charge 2 euro to get a random seat, guaranteed to be away from the other pax on the booking.

It reminds me the last time I checked in I'm nearly sure they had an offer of five euros to check in your cabin bag, and a separate offer of five euros for priority boarding, so your cabin bag wouldn't be taken off you.