Lease Verses Licence

Samuel T. Cogley

Activewearuser wrote: »

I received the adjudicators report, they rules that the agreement was a lease in everything but words. Basically the landlord trying to pull a fast as a rent a room scheme.

Which meant the tenancy should have been registered, but no reference to fining the landlord for not registering.

In fairness the fine is an administrative sanction against the LL and no more your business than your speeding fines are to the LL. 4ensic15 may correct me here, or indeed anyone else, but I doubt that's ever included in the decision.

Not meaning to sound harsh there just drawing an analogy.

Thanks for the up date btw!

Wilma2017

Do people realise one of people on panel of tribunal is a tenants advocate .No wonder landlords are losing genuine cases

Graham

Wilma2017 wrote: »

Do people realise one of people on panel of tribunal is a tenants advocate .No wonder landlords are losing genuine cases

Source?

How does that work when a single individual is hearing the case?

Or are you saying one out of the many panel members is a tenants advocate?

Grumpypants

Had a reasonable experience with them when a landlord withheld a deposit.

Opened a case and got to mediation, which they handled. I was owed €600 and settled on €500. Their advice was that I could take a case and would prob win it, but it would cost €75 to lodge the claim, I'd need a day off work, and would have to drive to the hearing in a town 30-40 miles away, so the costs would exceed the €100.

I took the €500 and went on my way.

Muahahaha

Had a case with them a while ago of illegal eviction by a landlord. Won the adjudication hands down and was awarded 5k compensation, my deposit back in full and five days lost wages for having to move unexpectedly. That took about 3 months start to finish which is very efficient imo.

Then the LL appealed to the Tenancy Tribunal and they lost again with my award increased by another 400 due to fitted wardrobes I paid for and installed (I didnt have the receipts at the first hearing). This part took a further two months. LL still has not paid up and we are enforcing it in the Circuit Court, at this stage the cost of the award will be doubled as he will have to pay my legal fees too so he is now looking at 11-12k bill all in. If he doesnt settle soon we will be either obtaining a judgement mortgage on his family home or else an attachment order on his wages. Regardless of the road we take we will be reporting the debt to Stubbs Gazette and no bank will be lending to him ever again. After that it is going to be a Revenue audit for him as he wasnt paying tax on my rental income for the 7 years I was there. He thought he was smart getting the heavies in to evict me and acting like he was above the law but the RTB saw through his lies at the two hearings and if he lets it go to the Circuit Court without paying up he will get short shrift from the judge there for breaching the Order from the RTB.

Overall being evicted illegally was a horrible experience to have to go through but I have to say the RTB is a very professional and efficient service. The key to it is that you have to make sure you have all your paperwork in order and to hand. Photographs, emails, text messages and recorded conversations won me the case as they proved his defence was a pack of lies, without collecting and maintaining evidence it would have just been my word against his and it could have gone either way. The look on his face as the recorded conversation was played out loud was priceless, I gave him enough rope to hang himself and then the tape got played and his lies were exposed.

GGTrek

Lately I read all the RTB tribunal cases that are published (I hope for the best and prepare for the worst) and I must say that I disagree completely with the OP. Tribunal seems to be much fairer than single adjudicators (which in my experience, favoured by the informality of the hearing, do try to plead in favour of the tenant). A few adjudications were reversed this year by the Tribunal (especially cases appealed by big funds).

OP case reminded me of this June case that was published very recently: https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/tribunal-reports/tr0417-002289-dr-0117-31373-report.pdf?sfvrsn=0

The appellant in this case was very obviously a licensee and quite a demanding and entitled one. It is unbelievable that a B&B owner has to loose (a lot of) time and money answering spurious claims because the entitled occupier of the B&B believes he has the right to stay in a B&B for as long as he wishes to stay and dictating terms to the owner, and used the whole RTB process as a revenge tool. This is exactly why property owners want out of the letting business. RTB adjudication fee is too cheap and occupiers have nothing to loose and everything to gain by taking a case to RTB. In my opinion the appeal fee should cover the tribunal cost and paid by the looser (like a proper court or even better appeal shoul be in a proper court where enforcement order is immediate), this will massively reduce the spurious claims and delays.

Michael D Not Higgins

Muahahaha wrote: »

Had a case with them a while ago of illegal eviction by a landlord.

Congrats, sounds like a bad experience to go through but hopefully the threat of a real court will shake the landlord to his senses and he'll pay up.

Muahahaha

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Congrats, sounds like a bad experience to go through but hopefully the threat of a real court will shake the landlord to his senses and he'll pay up.

Yeah I reckon he will pay before it gets to court, he is just dragging his feet on the matter. It was a pretty horrible situation, having heavies forcing themselves uninvited into your home was not the way I had imagined my Christmas holidays to go. Wouldnt mind but we had a good relationship up until that point, 7 years with no hassle going either direction and rent always paid on time. I felt like such a mug at the end of it. But at least justice is getting done for his behaviour towards me so it will end well and for me a large part of that is how efficient the RTB were in dealing with the case. If a tenant or a landlord breaks the law there is no messing with them, they are straight down the line from my experience. The trick is to have everything recorded as soon as you sense things are going down hill. Im glad I did that or else I would never have seen justice for what the landlord did.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah I reckon he will pay before it gets to court, he is just dragging his feet on the matter. It was a pretty horrible situation, having heavies forcing themselves uninvited into your home was not the way I had imagined my Christmas holidays to go. Wouldnt mind but we had a good relationship up until that point, 7 years with no hassle going either direction and rent always paid on time. I felt like such a mug at the end of it. But at least justice is getting done for his behaviour towards me so it will end well and for me a large part of that is how efficient the RTB were in dealing with the case. If a tenant or a landlord breaks the law there is no messing with them, they are straight down the line from my experience. The trick is to have everything recorded as soon as you sense things are going down hill. Im glad I did that or else I would never have seen justice for what the landlord did.

What you've scored is a pyrrhic victory. Good luck trying to enforce judgment. Personally I don't think you have a hope in hell. If he doesn't have the money and can show that, there is nothing a Circuit Court can force him to do. You'll get your judgment mortgage and nothing else.

Your posts are an example of why there should be a register of tenants who initiate RTB proceedings. I must remind myself to ask this question of prospective tenants if I rent again.

The_Conductor

OP- I've merged your two threads.

Brian201888

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

What you've scored is a pyrrhic victory. Good luck trying to enforce judgment. Personally I don't think you have a hope in hell. If he doesn't have the money and can show that, there is nothing a Circuit Court can force him to do. You'll get your judgment mortgage and nothing else.

Your posts are an example of why there should be a register of tenants who initiate RTB proceedings. I must remind myself to ask this question of prospective tenants if I rent again.

Yeah god forbid you'd have a tenant who decides to pull you up on illegal behaviour

Graham

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

What you've scored is a pyrrhic victory. Good luck trying to enforce judgment. Personally I don't think you have a hope in hell. If he doesn't have the money and can show that, there is nothing a Circuit Court can force him to do. You'll get your judgment mortgage and nothing else.

I'd assume a landlord, i.e. someone that owns property, is going to be easier to take enforcement action against than somebody more transient.

Cuddlesworth

Graham wrote: »

I'd assume a landlord, i.e. someone that owns property, is going to be easier to take enforcement action against than somebody more transient.

People get this idea in their head that you can't enforce judgements for money owed. You can, there is usually a cost/time factor that makes smaller judgements pointless to enforce. 6K from the RTB, **** thats worth following up.

Any ideas if a lean on the house gathers interest?

The_Conductor

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Any ideas if a lean on the house gathers interest?

Standard practice is to apply interest on any lien on terms on parr with prevailing Revenue Commission terms- which is currently 0.0274% per day or part thereof. This works out at an APR of 10%.

Muahahaha

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

What you've scored is a pyrrhic victory. Good luck trying to enforce judgment. Personally I don't think you have a hope in hell. If he doesn't have the money and can show that, there is nothing a Circuit Court can force him to do. You'll get your judgment mortgage and nothing else.

Your posts are an example of why there should be a register of tenants who initiate RTB proceedings. I must remind myself to ask this question of prospective tenants if I rent again.

Oh wow, an apologist for the illegal behaviour of a landlord.

You clearly know nothing about Circuit Court procedure either. Luckily I work in the legal game and know it very well. We have done our research on this landlord that evicted me illegally and he is very much a mark with lots of financial interests we can target under the law. And when that is sorted we will be making sure no bank will lend to him again and then following that up with reporting him to Revenue. I make no apology for that to a man who evicted me illegally during Christmas week. He is a scumbag but tried it on with a person who has the resources and knowledge of the legal system to take him on. I did that and the RTB found in my favour, fair play to them for seeing through his deception and lies at the Tribunal.

The_Conductor

Guys- cop on.
If you disagree with another post- refute the post- without attacking the poster. If you suspect you can't resist getting a dig in- just don't do it- it easy to remain civil- and if you don't- you will earn a card from moderators.

Calm down- refute the post- and don't sink to the lowest common denominator.