Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

STB.

Well either way Pat got what he wanted. We'll never know whether the ref had it in his report or if it only made its way in as a result of the pressure applied.

Pat also managed to keep the Kerry PED story out of the sports press. Job done.

Yeah but now the hornets nest has been stirred up and it very much is them and us. The Sunday Game panel has been two biased for too long and needs to be reined in. Legally it could have been challnged on the basis that prior trial by media would have fúcked the CCCC. Jim's let them know that.

MayoAreMagic

STB. wrote: »

Some might say what Spillane said was disingenuous.

It was quite rehearsed and stealthly delivered. Your own County Man Mortimer was one of the first to say as much.

BTW Have you nothing to do but wind up the Dubs, big man. You'd swear ye have nothing to talk about in your own County. Oh wait, you dont.

Some might say literally anything they like, that doesn't prove a whole lot, other than they don't know what they are talking about.
Spillane was straightforward and fair. He quoted the rulebook, and stated what the dog on the street knows about Connolly - he reacts way too much and way too often. Now that is as fair as you can be, mainly because it is 100% the truth. What is stealthy about that? I thought he was trying to stick to the rule, state it out clearly, not dwell on it and maybe do Connolly a favour by handling it in a brisk fashion without getting overly personal, genuinely I believe that. If Brolly was on the panel that night we'd probably have another Sean Cavanagh attack on our hands, which is the sad reality of Joe Brolly.

As for Conor Mortimer, if he is the guy you are quoting for balanced analysis then you are really on the bottom of the barrel. In fact, you might be better asking the barrel.

Im actually not winding anyone up. I ask genuine questions and guys just get snippy back, so I give them their own back. Id rather discuss the thing properly, but people aren't willing.

MayoAreMagic

STB. wrote: »

Yeah but now the hornets nest has been stirred up and it very much is them and us. The Sunday Game panel has been two biased for too long and needs to be reined in. Legally it could have been challnged on the basis that prior trial by media would have fúcked the CCCC. Jim's let them know that.

What I don't get is, why this 'legal challenge' bs doesn't apply to any other sport? Like when suarez bit ivanovic, it was in the paper, it was spoken about by pundits, and rightly so. Where was the legal challenge about this?

Let's call a spade a spade here, Gavin is trying to make a case for, basically a gagging order on the press, and that is just laughable. What's next? Refs cant blow the whistle too loud?
Now I agree that sometimes the press overstep the mark. In fact Id argue brolly has taken the position he has because he knows he himself is the most guilty of this carry on, and so being to the front of the charge means he wont be singled out by the mob.
The problem is, where is this self-serving attitude leading? There has to be some give and take.

JRant

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Some might say literally anything they like, that doesn't prove a whole lot, other than they don't know what they are talking about.
Spillane was straightforward and fair. He quoted the rulebook, and stated what the dog on the street knows about Connolly - he reacts way too much and way too often. Now that is as fair as you can be, mainly because it is 100% the truth. What is stealthy about that? I thought he was trying to stick to the rule, state it out clearly, not dwell on it and maybe do Connolly a favour by handling it in a brisk fashion without getting overly personal, genuinely I believe that. If Brolly was on the panel that night we'd probably have another Sean Cavanagh attack on our hands, which is the sad reality of Joe Brolly.

As for Conor Mortimer, if he is the guy you are quoting for balanced analysis then you are really on the bottom of the barrel. In fact, you might be better asking the barrel.

Im actually not winding anyone up. I ask genuine questions and guys just get snippy back, so I give them their own back. Id rather discuss the thing properly, but people aren't willing.

The irony here is something else. Accusing others of not knowing what they are talking about when you didn't even know there was no appeal
Bottom of the barrel stuff indeed.

Yeah Pat was very fair, so fair in fact that he completely ignored the 3 Carlow lads knocking lumps out of Dermo during the incident.
Where was his beloved rule book then?

Where was the Spillane bible when a failed drug test was hushed up?

Listen the only favour Pat was doing was for his beloved Kingdom. He went out of his way to put pressure on the CCCC to take action. Why? Well we can all speculate but you don't need to be a member of Mensa to work that one out.

RuMan

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What I don't get is, why this 'legal challenge' bs doesn't apply to any other sport? Like when suarez bit ivanovic, it was in the paper, it was spoken about by pundits, and rightly so. Where was the legal challenge about this?

Let's call a spade a spade here, Gavin is trying to make a case for, basically a gagging order on the press, and that is just laughable. What's next? Refs cant blow the whistle too loud?
Now I agree that sometimes the press overstep the mark. In fact Id argue brolly has taken the position he has because he knows he himself is the most guilty of this carry on, and so being to the front of the charge means he wont be singled out by the mob.
The problem is, where is this self-serving attitude leading? There has to be some give and take.

Lets be honest the problem Spillane has with Connolly/Dublin is the same problem he had with Tyrone/puke football namely both teams kept beating Kerry.

MayoAreMagic

RuMan wrote: »

Lets be honest the problem Spillane has with Connolly/Dublin is the same problem he had with Tyrone/puke football namely both teams kept beating Kerry.

But Kerry won the last game between the two.
They were missing a raft of starters also.

You seem to have your default setting at victim.
He quoted the rule book. If you have a problem with what he said then your problem lies with the rules of the game.
Some times you are just wrong and you have to accept it. This is one of those times for the dubs.

RuMan

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But Kerry won the last game between the two.
They were missing a raft of starters also.

You seem to have your default setting at victim.
He quoted the rule book. If you have a problem with what he said then your problem lies with the rules of the game.
Some times you are just wrong and you have to accept it. This is one of those times for the dubs.

Fine is you want to be pedantic. Spillane only has a problem with teams who beat Kerry in the Championship regularly. Namely Tyrone and now Dublin.

I take it as a compliment. We had 30 years of being patronised by Kerry !

Billy Mays

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But Kerry won the last game between the two.
They were missing a raft of starters also.

You seem to have your default setting at victim.
He quoted the rule book. If you have a problem with what he said then your problem lies with the rules of the game.
Some times you are just wrong and you have to accept it. This is one of those times for the dubs.

Like when you said Dublin appealed Connolly's ban

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

Like when you said Dublin appealed Connolly's ban

What is 'seeking a hearing' on a decision, unless the goal isn't to overturn the decision? How can a decision be upheld or over turned at a hearing? Because it was reported that this one was upheld.

Maybe keep some amount of respectability for yourself and knock that whole appeal/hearing word switch nonsense on the head...

MayoAreMagic

RuMan wrote: »

Fine is you want to be pedantic. Spillane only has a problem with teams who beat Kerry in the Championship regularly. Namely Tyrone and now Dublin.

I take it as a compliment. We had 30 years of being patronised by Kerry !

There isn't any evidence of this though, and without evidence it is just a concocted story. He praised Dublin more than most up to this point, and probably will again. He never grudged them their all Irelands or anything near it. You are just pretending he has a history of this to suit your agenda.
Maybe he just thought what the rest of the country generally thought? That Connolly was going to get a 12 week ban and had crossed a line. Why is that - the most likely of possibilities, not a consideration for you?

Billy Mays

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What is 'seeking a hearing' on a decision, unless the goal isn't to overturn the decision? How can a decision be upheld or over turned at a hearing? Because it was reported that this one was upheld.

Maybe keep some amount of respectability for yourself and knock that whole appeal/hearing word switch nonsense on the head...

Maybe admit that you were actually wrong about something for once, hard as that may be for you.

There was no decision, there was a proposal which wasn't accepted. The decision was made after the hearing. Dublin/Connolly decided not to appeal the decision.

It's not hard to grasp.

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

Maybe admit that you were actually wrong about something for once, hard as that may be for you.

There was no decision, there was a proposal which wasn't accepted. The decision was made after the hearing. Dublin/Connolly decided not to appeal the decision.

It's not hard to grasp.

Listen I have no issue admitting if I am wrong on something. But that whole 'hearing not an appeal' thing is just a bit of pr spin taken from a roundly discredited statement. Gavin might get a bit of licence on that front, but it sis hard to take seriously, anyone who would be taking that literally.
Lee Keegan appealed against Kerry, spin it any way you want to with hearings etc, but the reality is it was an appeal and it was successful. Im not going to insult people's intelligence by suggesting otherwise, and Id suggest you do the same.

Billy Mays

You can suggest whatever you want to be honest.

Dublin/Connolly didn't appeal.

You're wrong, not that you'll ever admit it.

I'm done with this now. Best of luck against Derry.

JRant

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Listen I have no issue admitting if I am wrong on something. But that whole 'hearing not an appeal' thing is just a bit of pr spin taken from a roundly discredited statement. Gavin might get a bit of licence on that front, but it sis hard to take seriously, anyone who would be taking that literally.
Lee Keegan appealed against Kerry, spin it any way you want to with hearings etc, but the reality is it was an appeal and it was successful. Im not going to insult people's intelligence by suggesting otherwise, and Id suggest you do the same.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0609/881610-brian-connolly-will-not/

You'll have no difficulty admitting you are wrong so?

It's there in black and white.

MayoAreMagic

JRant wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/0609/881610-brian-connolly-will-not/

You'll have no difficulty admitting you are wrong so?

It's there in black and white.

But that states he went to the CCCC and the ban was upheld... So he did appeal the thing. The claim was he never appealed at all, but rather it was a 'hearing'. Rephrase it as a hearing all you like, but the decision is revisited and can be turned over; that is an appeal.

Actually, since the next level of appeals is called a hearings process, doesn't that mean that isn't an appeal too?

What you are saying is like a guy claiming job seekers allowance trying to claim he has never been on 'the dole' in his life. :rolleyes:

Hammer Archer

OK MayoAreMagic, I'm going to instruct you not to post in the Dublin GAA thread (and its future incarnations) again. While your posts don't technically break the forum rules, they are basically making it impossible for Dublin fans to discuss general Dublin GAA matters.

This doesn't mean you cannot post your views in other threads, just not in this thread. If you need clarification, please PM me or one of the other moderators. Obviously, do not reply on this thread.

Everyone else, please do not reply to this post.

CatInABox

So, moving on, with the wins against Carlow and Westmeath under our belt, how do people feel about our chances this year? I think the Carlow game is going to be more instructive than the Westmeath game, no other team will go out with as open a defense as Westmeath again this year, and the Carlow game wasn't great for us.

I think we're going to struggle against teams that set up ultra defensively. In saying that, I think only two teams are able to play the defensive game and still manage to counterattack with enough skill to win a game, and that's Tyrone and Kerry. It's going to interesting to see how this all plays out.

Mayo have been downgraded to a wild card this year, hard to know which team will show up, the team that pushed Dublin to a replay, or the team that loses to Galway.

BonnieSituation

CatInABox wrote: »

So, moving on, with the wins against Carlow and Westmeath under our belt, how do people feel about our chances this year? I think the Carlow game is going to be more instructive than the Westmeath game, no other team will go out with as open a defense as Westmeath again this year, and the Carlow game wasn't great for us.

I think we're going to struggle against teams that set up ultra defensively. In saying that, I think only two teams are able to play the defensive game and still manage to counterattack with enough skill to win a game, and that's Tyrone and Kerry. It's going to interesting to see how this all plays out.

Mayo have been downgraded to a wild card this year, hard to know which team will show up, the team that pushed Dublin to a replay, or the team that loses to Galway.

Wash your mouth out. Kerry don't play defensively.

On your latter point re Mayo they are the same team as we saw last year. Scraping over the line against Fermanagh. Being pushed early on against Tipp after scraping through against Tyrone. All of that after losing in Connacht. The qualifiers seemed to battle-harden them.

Look what they did with us in the final.

TBH I still think it's them or Tyrone that will be the biggest challenges to us. I think opening up against Westmeath would have done us the world of good.

And a test against Kildare would send us up another notch.

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

TBH I still think it's them or Tyrone that will be the biggest challenges to us. I think opening up against Westmeath would have done us the world of good.

And a test against Kildare would send us up another notch.

In my mind this Dublin team has the measure of Kerry even though Kerry managed to win the league final.
But the way they had to win it amused me, a muck and bullets type performance.
I think it is the only chance they have against Dublin these days.

It is Tyrone that really worries me. They have been ticking along nicely under Micky Harte. I was at the Ulster semi between themselves and Donegal. The red hands looked fairly impressive, although Donegal seemed to lose heart (no pun intended.
Tyrone seem to have a nice solid structure and when let loose they have shown they can get scores from all over the pitch.
They will probably give Down a hiding in the Ulster final which will put even more swagger in them.

As for Kildare, I can't see them causing Dublin much hassle.
I saw the Div 2 league final v Galway and it was awful stuff. That Kildare will give Dublin a 'test' almost seems to be wishful thinking by Dublin fans.
Don't get me wrong Kildare have a few decent players but they are still a good bit behind Dublin.
I think Dublin will beat Kildare by around 10 points at least. I suppose that will be a test compared to the Carlow and Westmeath games.
But that wouldn't be hard would it?

RuMan

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

There isn't any evidence of this though, and without evidence it is just a concocted story. He praised Dublin more than most up to this point, and probably will again. He never grudged them their all Irelands or anything near it. You are just pretending he has a history of this to suit your agenda.
Maybe he just thought what the rest of the country generally thought? That Connolly was going to get a 12 week ban and had crossed a line. Why is that - the most likely of possibilities, not a consideration for you?

He does have a history, ask any Tyrone fan what they think of Spillane.
His completely OTT criticism of Tyrone was also primarily because they kept beating Kerry.

I believe his criticism of Connolly (and in particular the way he ignored the contribution of the Carlow players to it) was because Dublin are going for 3 in a row and they keep beating Kerry.

Jayop

Ah sure we were the team to beat you last year too. That went well for us, didn't even get a crack at it.

At least this year it looks very very likely barring a complete disaster that we'll get to see the game that we all want to see. Can this Tyrone team actually put it up to you?


And yeah everyone in Tyrone thinks Spillane is an absolute twat for how he's talked about us. But the Kerry thing can't be an excuse for O'Rourke going personal several times and Brolly being brolly. There's a bigger agenda at play there but people refuse to see it.

Bonniedog

gormdubhgorm, I think Kildare have "trained on" as the expression goes. They are hugely improved in terms of physicality and will give Dublin a game of it. Indeed I suspect one of reasons for way Dublin played last week is that JG can see other teams basically imitating Dublin and that they need to do something outside the box.

As for Tyrone, Harte has no doubt been pondering the potential confrontation for last three years. He took the flak and rebuilt a team that many including Tyroneies thought was going to be in doldrums for a few years. The team most likely to beat us.

Dots1982

Mayoaremagic- freedom of expression is one of the rights of the republic but it is not absolute

Bonniedog

Dots1982 wrote: »

Mayoaremagic- freedom of expression is one of the rights of the republic but it is not absolute

Yes, but on that basis Mayo ought to be allowed say what he wants on this forum, once it is not abusive, and I don't think he has been.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Yes, but on that basis Mayo ought to be allowed say what he wants on this forum, once it is not abusive, and I don't think he has been.

Yeah. If there was a mod keeping tabs on the fella who runs America there is no way he would be allowed to tweet.

But I can see why Mr/Miss MayoAreMagic was dumped it was getting silly.

You couldn't get decent discussion going.

corny

CatInABox wrote: »

Mayo have been downgraded to a wild card this year, hard to know which team will show up, the team that pushed Dublin to a replay, or the team that loses to Galway.

Its really not though. They were a remarkably consistent side under Horan and Holmes/Connolly.

They changed tack last year but given their performance in the final its obvious they were either sandbagging or looking to peak in September. I don't see evidence anything is different this year. Yes they struggled against Galway in June but their September final performance would destroy the likes of Galway. I'd be confident their planning to replicate that performance when its really needed.

Btw i'm hoping they struggle past Derry and on to meet Kerry. I'll be putting an outrageous sum on them at a good price to win that.

Stoner

corny wrote:

Its really not though. They were a remarkably consistent side under Horan and Holmes/Connolly.

I'd agree, they look about the same bad they did this time last year, the only difference is the Potential injuries.

Slattsy

corny wrote: »

Its really not though. They were a remarkably consistent side under Horan and Holmes/Connolly.

They changed tack last year but given their performance in the final its obvious they were either sandbagging or looking to peak in September. I don't see evidence anything is different this year. Yes they struggled against Galway in June but their September final performance would destroy the likes of Galway. I'd be confident their planning to replicate that performance when its really needed.

Btw i'm hoping they struggle past Derry and on to meet Kerry. I'll be putting an outrageous sum on them at a good price to win that.

They'd a piss easy route through the qualifiers last year though. Looks a lot trickier for them this year. Tyrone were bloody dire last year and looked like they didn't want to win the semi.

It's all well and good trying to peak a bit later, but losing to Galway again certainly wasn't the plan. Losing comes naturally to Mayo. And credit to them they always come back for more. Very hard to know where they are they are this year yet. Probably still the team that will put it up to us most but I was impressed with Tyrone last week.

Bret Hart

Emphatic win in the end after only a point in it at HT. Ger lives too fight another day.

Dublin 2-28
Laois 1-15

corny

Got some nice scores in the game but Laois kind of fell apart in the second half. Still good win for the lads. Heads haven't dropped markedly in spite of the manager.

Waterford, KK or Tipp? We should be fodder for them but you never know.