Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

DoctaDee

In its simplest form - if Tipp had drawn either Kilkenny or Waterford there wasn't an earthly the game would be played in Thurles. The fact that the advantages the football team receive in Croke Park are seen by some as a balancing of the scales says more about their bias than the injustice of the decision to play in Thurles

Past30Now

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Then don't take it. I mean coming into a Dublin forum to decry our "uproar" seems a bit silly to me.

I agree with this completely. Calling CP a home pitch for the Dublin Hurlers, is the equivalent of calling Wembley a home pitch for Chelsea or QPR in London. The pitch happens to be in the same city. Parnell Park is the Dublin Hurlers home and anyone with even a passing interest in hurling knows this.

Anyone coming into the Dublin forum to "decry our uproar" is not really interested in a genuine conversation about the issue. The decision is made, and like a referee's decision, won't be overturned. Hopefully the lads tear Tipp a new one, and get the result of the season.

blue note

Kavrocks wrote: »

Nobody has proven the Dublin hurlers play at home more than any other team in the country. However, that is irrelevant here. The round 2 qualifiers were supposed to be played at neutral venues how is that the case for the Dublin and Tipperary match?

You can't seriously be calling Croke Park not a home pitch for the hurlers. They played far more championship matches there than in Parnell Park. And have been playing a considerable amount of league games there too - twice this year versus one in Parnell.

Croke Park is within walking distance for half the Dublin team. Other counties either have a decent coach ride up or stay overnight for matches in Croke Park. Being able to wake up in your own bed and not to have to get up early for the bus is certainly an advantage. And then they'll have the advantage of being better supported because it's a home tie. Plus there's the familiarity of the ground. For these sets of players, considering Dublin play a couple of league games there every year too, the only team that might have played more matches in Croke Park is Kilkenny.

You need to be seriously deluded to not see that Croke Park is a home match for Dublin hurlers.

blue note

Past30Now wrote: »

I agree with this completely. Calling CP a home pitch for the Dublin Hurlers, is the equivalent of calling Wembley a home pitch for Chelsea or QPR in London. The pitch happens to be in the same city. Parnell Park is the Dublin Hurlers home and anyone with even a passing interest in hurling knows this.

Anyone coming into the Dublin forum to "decry our uproar" is not really interested in a genuine conversation about the issue. The decision is made, and like a referee's decision, won't be overturned. Hopefully the lads tear Tipp a new one, and get the result of the season.

It's 5 minutes in the car from Parnell! Man United don't train on the Old Trafford pitch. Does that make it not their home ground?

Past30Now

blue note wrote: »

It's 5 minutes in the car from Parnell! Man United don't train on the Old Trafford pitch. Does that make it not their home ground?

I said nothing about training, and the distance between our home pitch and CP is, IMO, irrelevant. Parnell Park is our hurlers home pitch.

BonnieSituation

blue note wrote: »

You can't seriously be calling Croke Park not a home pitch for the hurlers. They played far more championship matches there than in Parnell Park. And have been playing a considerable amount of league games there too - twice this year versus one in Parnell.

Croke Park is within walking distance for half the Dublin team. Other counties either have a decent coach ride up or stay overnight for matches in Croke Park. Being able to wake up in your own bed and not to have to get up early for the bus is certainly an advantage. And then they'll have the advantage of being better supported because it's a home tie. Plus there's the familiarity of the ground. For these sets of players, considering Dublin play a couple of league games there every year too, the only team that might have played more matches in Croke Park is Kilkenny.

You need to be seriously deluded to not see that Croke Park is a home match for Dublin hurlers.

Give over.

---

Any opinions on Tipp's home advantage?

gormdubhgorm

dirtyden wrote: »

Dublin play at home more than any other team in the country. The uproar is a little bit hard to take in this case. If you cant see that you are being quite blinkered.

See above re-Parnell Park.

There seems to be a merging of the Dublin footballers and the Dublin hurlers in this argument by the devious anti-Dub brigade.

Croke Park is not Dublin's home.

You could argue that the Dublin footballers are used to playing in the neutral venue of the Croke Park HQ.

They are moved there as a benefit to the Leinster council to generate more funds for teams like Kildare, Louth even Meath.
They make thier own of it.

But as I said above the Dublin hurlers love Parnell Park thier home ground.
Their record when moved out of thier home ground to the vast expanse of Croke Park is not great by any means.

The Dublin hurlers are not the Dublin footballers they are completely different entities.

There also does not seem to be the realisation that if Dublin hurling dies on it's @rse it will be another death knell into the sport of hurling.
Where the number of competitive teams is very small.

It seems the 'promotion of hurling' means different things to different people when it suits them.

Moving this Dublin game to thurles is not about the 'promotion of hurling' it is hurling snobbery pure and simple.

gormdubhgorm

blue note wrote: »

You need to be seriously deluded to not see that Croke Park is a home match for Dublin hurlers.

I think people are being far from deluded.
You have obviously not being to any/many Dublin hurling matches in Croke Park.

Maybe you are imagining win after win after win for the Dublin hurlers in Croke Park. With big crowds cheering on the hurlers?

If that is the case you are either a hurling idealist or getting the Dublin footballers and hurlers mixed up.

One sport has a big round ball, the other other game has a helmet a sliothar (a much smaller ball then the big round ball), and a big stick thing (commonly referred to as a hurl).

Most of the time when the Dublin hurlers play in Croke park they get ran all over the pitch and you can hear echoes in the ground - of hurls hitting sliothars, and hurls clashing.
You can hear the players calling for the sliothar from time to time!

blue note

BonnieSituation wrote:

Any opinions on Tipp's home advantage?

I think it'll be worth a couple of points to them. I think if it had been fixed for croke park it would be worth a couple of points to Dublin, but not enough. This year is unfortunately a write off for ye. If ye get your players back next year yoyo be a serious side again.

If it was a team other than dublin I'd think they'd be right to moan about the venue. We kicked up a fuss when we were due to play them there one year (think it turned out we'd agreed to it which was crazy). But since Dublin get to play more matches in their home county than anyone else, by a distance, I think it's hilarious for any dub to say they're being treated unfairly.

Like, do you want fairness or favouritism? Because currently it's favouritism. Fairness would be to play leinster finals in wexford / portlaoise / nowlan park. And semi finals and finals in tipp, cork, limerick. Or have home and away arrangements.

blue note

gormdubhgorm wrote:

I think people are being far from deluded. You have obviously not being to any/many Dublin hurling matches in Croke Park.

I've been to quite a few Dublin hurling matches in croke park. The atmosphere has been mixed - the semi finals had great atmosphere and so did the Leinster final ye won. When you're not playing well the atmosphere isn't great, but that's the same with any county.

I've also been to Dublin matches outside of croke park and I'd say the same thing really - when you're playing well the fans get behind the team, when you're bout in a game it's quiet. I suppose the difference is ye get more fans in a neutral (lol) venue in your county than in a neutral venue in a different county.

Kavrocks

blue note wrote: »

I think it'll be worth a couple of points to them. I think if it had been fixed for croke park it would be worth a couple of points to Dublin, but not enough. This year is unfortunately a write off for ye. If ye get your players back next year yoyo be a serious side again.

Croke Park worth a few points to the Dublin hurlers? Now I know you've never watched a Dublin hurling game in Croke Park. Tipp would have the upper hand over us in Croke Park. Over the last 10 years Dublin have won 1/3 of their games in Croke Park so I don't see how it is any advantage to us.

blue note wrote: »

If it was a team other than dublin I'd think they'd be right to moan about the venue. We kicked up a fuss when we were due to play them there one year (think it turned out we'd agreed to it which was crazy). But since Dublin get to play more matches in their home county than anyone else, by a distance, I think it's hilarious for any dub to say they're being treated unfairly.

There we go, so if it was any other county they'd be right to feel aggrieved but not Dublin. That's really your whole argument in a nutshell.

blue note wrote: »

Like, do you want fairness or favouritism? Because currently it's favouritism. Fairness would be to play leinster finals in wexford / portlaoise / nowlan park. And semi finals and finals in tipp, cork, limerick. Or have home and away arrangements.

I'd much prefer if the Dublin hurlers played Leinster finals (and all games) outside of Croke Park. We'd have a much better chance of winning in Wexford Park, Portlaoise or Tullamore. It's not Dublin who want their games played in Croke Park, it's the Leinster council or CCCC who fix them there.

gormdubhgorm

blue note wrote: »

If it was a team other than dublin I'd think they'd be right to moan about the venue. We kicked up a fuss when we were due to play them there one year (think it turned out we'd agreed to it which was crazy). But since Dublin get to play more matches in their home county than anyone else, by a distance, I think it's hilarious for any dub to say they're being treated unfairly.

I will make this simple for you since you do not seem to be getting it.

This is a football





This is a hurl





This is Croke Park:





This is Parnell Park:





Dublin's home ground is Parnell Park in both codes

The Dublin hurlers prefer Parnell Park thier home ground, the records prove this.

blanch152

blue note wrote: »

I think it'll be worth a couple of points to them. I think if it had been fixed for croke park it would be worth a couple of points to Dublin, but not enough. This year is unfortunately a write off for ye. If ye get your players back next year yoyo be a serious side again.

If it was a team other than dublin I'd think they'd be right to moan about the venue. We kicked up a fuss when we were due to play them there one year (think it turned out we'd agreed to it which was crazy). But since Dublin get to play more matches in their home county than anyone else, by a distance, I think it's hilarious for any dub to say they're being treated unfairly.

Like, do you want fairness or favouritism? Because currently it's favouritism. Fairness would be to play leinster finals in wexford / portlaoise / nowlan park. And semi finals and finals in tipp, cork, limerick. Or have home and away arrangements.

I haven't heard anyone calling for the match to be held in Croke Park, that is a complete red herring. The calls from Dublin have been to have the match held in Tullamore, Portlaoise, Limerick or some other neutral ground.

gormdubhgorm

blue note wrote: »

I've been to quite a few Dublin hurling matches in croke park. The atmosphere has been mixed - the semi finals had great atmosphere and so did the Leinster final ye won.

Which was Dublin's first leinster title since 1961 against a dis-interested Galway team.


https://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0212/367485-gaa-medal-leinster-hurling-final-ebay/



The Dublin hurlers record in Croke Park is terrible which you seem to be ignoring.

Croke Park is not Dublin's home venue. It does not help the hurlers. If the Dublin hurlers played in Parnell Park all the time then there might be some merit to your argument.

The Dublin hurlers prefer Parnell Park that is a fact.


http://www.wearedublin.com/hurling/hurlers-look-the-bring-parnell-park-form-to-croke-park/

They are like a fish out of water in Croke Park, most of that 2013 team are gone for various reasons.


The Dublin hurlers went five years unbeaten in Parnell Park.

In fact it was a frustration for many Dublin hurling fans that they could beat anyone in Parnell and lose to anyone in Croke Park.

Stoner

I agree with most of what you are saying but with regard to the atmosphere in Parnell park and CP being mush of a muchness for the hurlers I'd have to call BS on that one tbh. There is no atmosphere at a Dublin game of hurling in CP. But Parnell park is the home of Dublin hurling 100 percent that's where you play your serious club championship games, it's where you get have all the real hurling support in a small place and if you do hurl in Dublin you'd know that.

I don't usually get involved in the football home away argument as I do see CP as a home venue for the footballers.

Hurling though is a significantly different situation. CP is less travel but with respect to a pitch size that suits the team and a smaller bunch of fans it's better in Parnell as the supporters are closer to the pitch.

blue note

The Dublin hurlers record in Croke Park being poor has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of the games they've played there have been against Kilkenny / Galway in Leinster finals or again Cork / Tipp in AI semi finals. If those games had been played in neutral venues they'd probably have lost by more overall.

The atmosphere in Croke Park has been mixed - the two semi finals had a great atmosphere. Your Leinster final win had a great atmosphere, although maybe I was just in a good mood because of what I was seeing. I've seen a couple of flat games there too, but I've also seen a couple of flat double games in Parnell Park or in Walsh Park.

And why are people not considering that both Parnell Park and Croke Park can be considered home venues. We play in Walsh Park and Fraher Field in Waterford. I much rather Walsh Park, but I'm not going say Fraher Field is not a home match. It is in the county after all. Cork play in Pairc Ui Caoimh and Pairc Ui Rinn. I find the atmosphere in Pairc Ui Rinn to be better usually too. But both are home venues for them. Or in Offaly, a lot of people felt Birr is the home of hurling in the county and some people even refused to travel to Tullamore for the games. Does that make Offaly games played there neutral?

To be honest, I don't really care about the football too much. I consider it an unfair advantage in Dublin's favour as a consequence of other counties greed. I'll watch some football games alright and even go to the odd one, but I don't really care and have never read much about it. In relation to the hurling, I'm just gob smacked that people here don't consider a match in Dublin city centre a home match. And from reading the comments here, listening to your chairman, and coupled with the Dublin opinions on the Diarmuid Connolly ban, I can only conclude that Dublin has an enormous victimisation complex. Which to be honest, I find hilarious.

Stoner

Yes it's home match but not their preferred venue, as offered the home tag helps fans and travel arrangements.

As it stands Parnell park wouldn't be big enough for this match and regardless it is not the issue as this is a neutral venue.

TBH it simplifies the argument that has been offered to you. It's makes no sense to say that a pitch in your county isn't a home game, but that is not really what the lads are saying.

There is a home and a preferred ground for Dublin hurling that would provide them with an advantage over any other ground and it's not CP.

However if we keep bringing it back to CP being in Dublin and it being a home venue we'll just end up agreeing with each other repeatedly.

RuMan

blue note wrote: »

The Dublin hurlers record in Croke Park being poor has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of the games they've played there have been against Kilkenny / Galway in Leinster finals or again Cork / Tipp in AI semi finals. If those games had been played in neutral venues they'd probably have lost by more overall.

The atmosphere in Croke Park has been mixed - the two semi finals had a great atmosphere. Your Leinster final win had a great atmosphere, although maybe I was just in a good mood because of what I was seeing. I've seen a couple of flat games there too, but I've also seen a couple of flat double games in Parnell Park or in Walsh Park.

And why are people not considering that both Parnell Park and Croke Park can be considered home venues. We play in Walsh Park and Fraher Field in Waterford. I much rather Walsh Park, but I'm not going say Fraher Field is not a home match. It is in the county after all. Cork play in Pairc Ui Caoimh and Pairc Ui Rinn. I find the atmosphere in Pairc Ui Rinn to be better usually too. But both are home venues for them. Or in Offaly, a lot of people felt Birr is the home of hurling in the county and some people even refused to travel to Tullamore for the games. Does that make Offaly games played there neutral?

To be honest, I don't really care about the football too much. I consider it an unfair advantage in Dublin's favour as a consequence of other counties greed. I'll watch some football games alright and even go to the odd one, but I don't really care and have never read much about it. In relation to the hurling, I'm just gob smacked that people here don't consider a match in Dublin city centre a home match. And from reading the comments here, listening to your chairman, and coupled with the Dublin opinions on the Diarmuid Connolly ban, I can only conclude that Dublin has an enormous victimisation complex. Which to be honest, I find hilarious.

Croke Park is the National Stadium. It would be like saying Arsenal get home advantage by playing the Cup Final at Wembley.
Parnell is clearly the hurlers home ground.

BonnieSituation

blue note wrote: »

The Dublin hurlers record in Croke Park being poor has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of the games they've played there have been against Kilkenny / Galway in Leinster finals or again Cork / Tipp in AI semi finals. If those games had been played in neutral venues they'd probably have lost by more overall.

The atmosphere in Croke Park has been mixed - the two semi finals had a great atmosphere. Your Leinster final win had a great atmosphere, although maybe I was just in a good mood because of what I was seeing. I've seen a couple of flat games there too, but I've also seen a couple of flat double games in Parnell Park or in Walsh Park.

And why are people not considering that both Parnell Park and Croke Park can be considered home venues. We play in Walsh Park and Fraher Field in Waterford. I much rather Walsh Park, but I'm not going say Fraher Field is not a home match. It is in the county after all. Cork play in Pairc Ui Caoimh and Pairc Ui Rinn. I find the atmosphere in Pairc Ui Rinn to be better usually too. But both are home venues for them. Or in Offaly, a lot of people felt Birr is the home of hurling in the county and some people even refused to travel to Tullamore for the games. Does that make Offaly games played there neutral?

To be honest, I don't really care about the football too much. I consider it an unfair advantage in Dublin's favour as a consequence of other counties greed. I'll watch some football games alright and even go to the odd one, but I don't really care and have never read much about it. In relation to the hurling, I'm just gob smacked that people here don't consider a match in Dublin city centre a home match. And from reading the comments here, listening to your chairman, and coupled with the Dublin opinions on the Diarmuid Connolly ban, I can only conclude that Dublin has an enormous victimisation complex. Which to be honest, I find hilarious.

That's some conclusion.

CatInABox

Apparently Connolly is allowed to train away during his suspension, because the GAA don't want to bother checking up on everyone who is suspended. Nice for us, means Connolly may actually start in the semi-final.

I'd hope he does a fair bit of training on his anger management during the 12 weeks too.

ArmaniJeanss

The advantage argument re Semple/CP/PP is moot to an extent.

Really boils down as to whether games at this qualifier stage are meant to be neutral venue - the rule book should state clearly whether this is the case or not. And further define exactly what neutral means.
As long as you have a situation whereby some relatively unknown bureaucrat can make an uncontested decision and say 'its for the greater good' then you leave yourself open to an unsatisfactory outcome.

ProudDUB

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's some conclusion.

Well, yeah....all 1.2 million of us, have the exact same opinion on everything, all the time. Did you not get the memo on that boss?

blue note

Could they just declare semple a neutral venue to make the dubs happy?

Stoner

blue note wrote:

Could they just declare semple a neutral venue to make the dubs happy?

We could all pretend to be mad about it to keep you happy;)

blue note

Stoner wrote:

We could all pretend to be mad about it to keep you happy

My girlfriend is from dublin and mad at me. She says it's because I'm choosing to go out drinking after the match instead of doing something with her. But I know really she's mad about tipp having home advantage when dublin never get it.

Jaden

blue note wrote: »

My girlfriend is from dublin and mad at me. She says it's because I'm choosing to go out drinking after the match instead of doing something with her. But I know really she's mad about tipp having home advantage when dublin never get it.

How was your right hand born in Dublin, and the rest of you wasn't?

Bret Hart

http://www.hoganstand.com/Dublin/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=272660

Minors into the final on Sunday week.

Stoner

Great news Kildare have had an edge there for a few years

JRant

That's a great win for the young lads, delighted for them.

Kildare have been going great guns this past few years. If they can translate some of that talent into the senior team we might just get a game in Leinster soon

Joekers

Any radio commentary or way to watch the hurling online?