Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

Paranoid Mandroid

Doltanian wrote: »

..... which is why I award Dublin team of the decade.....

Hooraaaay!!

blanch152

Stoner wrote: »

No he grabbed his leg, it was a fair call.
Like most things with the black card it's the ones that aren't given

Yes, the ones that aren't given - the Kildare No.7 already on a yellow, did the exact same thing as Rock later in the game and it was ignored.

blanch152

Doltanian wrote: »

If Dublin will have won 8 All-Ireland titles including four in-a-row within 12 years and appeared in ten All-Ireland Finals then they will have matched the Golden Kerry team of the seventies and eighties. Since 2011 Dublin have failed to make the final in 2012 and 2014 so their hopes of equalling or beating that record is already under pressure.

There is no doubt Dublin are a great team and have benefited enormously from the incredibily unfair distribution of money by the GAA which has been pouring into the county for the last twelve years. Dublin will not be the greated team of all time and lets not get ahead of ourselves. Dublin is team of professional paid athletes in all but name, wheras the Kerry team of the golden years were a team of amateurs on a shoe-strong budget so not a fair comparison. Dublin have benefited from some incredibly erroneous refereeing, biased referees and double standards by the CCCC in relation to certain players disciplinary problems.

Dublin are the team of the decade from 2010-2019 already and that is already cemented with 4 titles and one back to back, Kerry are in second place with one title and three final appearances, next are Donegal with 1 win out of two final appearances and Cork in 4th position. Kerry would need to win the All-Ireland Final this year and complete three in-a-row from 2017-19 beating Dublin each year just to equal and better the record of Dublin's. Which would see each county on 4 titles but Kerry crowned team of the decade due to completing three in a row. However it seems more likely that Dublin will be the team to achieve three in a row and most certainly not Kerry which is why I award Dublin team of the decade since last September.

As for greatest team of all time, facts and records weigh heavily against Dublin in this regard but time will tell.

That Kerry team only had to play one decent team - Dublin.

The current Dublin team has faced a very good Kerry team (as you yourself acknowledge), the best Donegal team ever, the best Mayo team ever, and the second-best Tyrone team ever, not to mention strong challenges from Monaghan and Cork. The Munster provincial championship in the 1970s and 1980s was even more of a joke than the Leinster championship now, remember Kerry putting 9-21 on Clare?

If Dublin win this year, they are the equal of that Kerry team, if they win one or two more, they are better. But all that is probably for another thread.

This one should be left for us to bask in the sunshine of 7-in-a-row.

Stoner

When the dust settles I think we we are back in the same position we were in 2014 to some degree.
Hopefully Howard will develop into a midfielder but as it stands we have an issue in the middle.

Flynn and Connelly covered over the midfield issues for this team in the past. Mannion and Scully simply don't offer that sort of option
Those who think that holding Connelly scoreless is the key to curbing his influence on a game might might have missed it yesterday too. One on one the midfield lads we have can consistently fall a little short and the half forward line make up the difference.

In 2011 we had lads like Barry Cahill in there to to help the cause. I think that's why we have lads like Reddin , Carthy and Howard in there now.
The main concern would be the lack of cover for MDMA, usually when the heat is on he gets the better of the exchanges around the middle. Howard has a bit of that in him too.
But I can't see MDMA coming back this year

gormdubhgorm

CatInABox wrote: »

EDIT: Rock's black card was definitely a black card, they may have both been on the ground already, but the intent was to stop him from getting up and moving for the ball. It was an extremely silly black card to pick up for two reasons: we were so in control at that stage, and the only other players around with a chance of getting the ball were Kildare players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maExmRQuDik

You are right I did not see the little trip Rock did from where I was in the ground.
I couldn't understand it at the time.

DoctaDee

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are right I did not see the little trip Rock did from where I was in the ground.
I couldn't understand it at the time.

Yeah clears it up for me too - Rock had his back to my POV and obscured the pull back

gormdubhgorm

blanch152 wrote: »

That Kerry team only had to play one decent team - Dublin.

The current Dublin team has faced a very good Kerry team (as you yourself acknowledge), the best Donegal team ever, the best Mayo team ever, and the second-best Tyrone team ever, not to mention strong challenges from Monaghan and Cork. The Munster provincial championship in the 1970s and 1980s was even more of a joke than the Leinster championship now, remember Kerry putting 9-21 on Clare?

If Dublin win this year, they are the equal of that Kerry team, if they win one or two more, they are better. But all that is probably for another thread.

This one should be left for us to bask in the sunshine of 7-in-a-row.

Crucailly as well all of Dublin's All-Ireland's have come through the front door.
So the back door is not even a factor in thier assessment.

A former Kerry great on the Sunday Game, Pat Something or Other - conceded that Dublin will be number two of all-time if they win Sam this year.
And if they win it any more then that they will be number one.

DoctaDee

Stoner wrote: »

When the dust settles I think we we are back in the same position we were in 2014 to some degree.
Hopefully Howard will develop into a midfielder but as it stands we have an issue in the middle.

Flynn and Connelly covered over the midfield issues for this team in the past. Mannion and Scully simply don't offer that sort of option
Those who think that holding Connelly scoreless is the key to curbing his influence on a game might might have missed it yesterday too. One on one the midfield lads we have can consistently fall a little short and the half forward line make up the difference.

In 2011 we had lads like Barry Cahill in there to to help the cause. I think that's why we have lads like Reddin , Carthy and Howard in there now.
The main concern would be the lack of cover for MDMA, usually when the heat is on he gets the better of the exchanges around the middle. Howard has a bit of that in him too.
But I can't see MDMA coming back this year

That's a good point Stoner .. options for kickouts yesterday were extremely limited - other than the 2 in midfield I can only think of Kilkenny showing for anything else beyond our 45.

Then to compound those shortcomings we had little success around the breaking ball for much of the game - the likes of CK, Connolly, Flynn & James Mc have hoovered that up previously.

The nett result of the lack of possession was forcing us to backpeddle and turnover Kildare ball inside our own 45 - we were constantly setting up attacks from 30-40 yards further back down the field .. we gained some parity later on with Moolick off and Feely receiving the black card - he'll be a huge loss for Kildare next day out

blanch152

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Crucailly as well all of Dublin's All-Ireland's have come through the front door.
So the back door is not even a factor in thier assessment.

A former Kerry great on the Sunday Game, Pat Something or Other - conceded that Dublin will be number two of all-time if they win Sam this year.
And if they win it any more then that they will be number one.

I had forgotten that, the absence of the back door made it so much easier back then. Would the Kerry team have won in 1980, if they had to face a Dublin team coming through the back door?

DoctaDee

I'm going to ask our statto Laoisman to work out a coefficient to identify soft all irelands - my own basic model shows Dublin 26/26 and Kerry 37/25 .. in real terms Dublin have been more successful

Stoner

DoctaDee wrote:

The nett result of the lack of possession was forcing us to backpeddle and turnover Kildare ball inside our own 45 - we were constantly setting up attacks from 30-40 yards further back down the field .. we gained some parity later on with Moolick off and Feely receiving the black card - he'll be a huge loss for Kildare next day out

The situation before halftime was particularly worrying, the half-back line was in bits.

The fix will be Kilkenny switching back to more defensive duties. If we lose him or McCarthy we can forget about it their versatility is patching over issues.
Ideally we have them in their natural positions.

BonnieSituation

What changed that it took Kildare just under 20min to score their second point to them getting a barrel-load after?

Bonniedog

That period was worryingly similar to when Kerry got on top for 20 minutes in semi final last year and in league final. They survived comfortably in the end, but Tyrone in particular will have homework done. Still confident they will win it, but it will be toughest one yet, and a few more surprises before that most likely.

Dyr

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What changed that it took Kildare just under 20min to score their second point to them getting a barrel-load after?

Us missing a rake of shots and the ref deciding it was time to put in a shift for Kildare

Bonniedog

Bambi wrote: »

Us missing a rake of shots and the ref deciding it was time to put in a shift for Kildare

Indeed. What part of rule book says ref should try and get badly beaten team back into the game?

BonnieSituation

Bambi wrote: »

Us missing a rake of shots and the ref deciding it was time to put in a shift for Kildare

The missing shots should not have affected their side of the scoreboard surely?

ThunbergsAreGo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The missing shots should not have affected their side of the scoreboard surely?

We seemed to change how we were playing to a more experimental, long balls in to the forwards model, which resulted in some easy turnovers.

We did the same vs Westmeath

We are comfortably a 10 point or more better team than Kildare (who got some wonderful low percentage scores yesterday)

danganabu

naughtb4 wrote: »

We are comfortably a 10 point or more better team than Kildare (who got some wonderful low percentage scores yesterday)

Wouldn't be so sure of that now, Kildare also spurned the 3/4 goal chances they had and Dublin got their two. Callaghan also had a dream day where everything he touched went over the black spot.

10pts is a very wide margin in football. Personally if the line was 10pts and they were playing each other again Id be on the Kildare side of that handicap.

ThunbergsAreGo

danganabu wrote: »

Wouldn't be so sure of that now, Kildare also spurned the 3/4 goal chances they had and Dublin got their two. Callaghan also had a dream day where everything he touched went over the black spot.

10pts is a very wide margin in football. Personally if the line was 10pts and they were playing each other again Id be on the Kildare side of that handicap.

I think we had more other goal chances, Howard fisting it over the bar being a big one (and the disallowed goal of course, so 4 already), Dublin simply didn't need goal chances and so didn't chase them. I can think of one major chance for Kildare on goal, the rest were half chances at best.

I am not sure I would count many of Cons as "difficult scores", just what a class forward. He has the makings of some player

You might be right, on the ten points as the team winning tends to pull up etc. but i think Kildare are being overblown. See the Sunday Game placing them above Roscommon last night as an example.

Credit must be given to Gavin for the quiet evolution of this team. Anyone know where Flynn is? Saw it asked here a few pages ago but no answer

EICVD

naughtb4 wrote: »

I think we had more other goal chances, Howard fisting it over the bar being a big one (and the disallowed goal of course, so 4 already), Dublin simply didn't need goal chances and so didn't chase them. I can think of one major chance for Kildare on goal, the rest were half chances at best.

I am not sure I would count many of Cons as "difficult scores", just what a class forward. He has the makings of some player

You might be right, on the ten points as the team winning tends to pull up etc. but i think Kildare are being overblown. See the Sunday Game placing them above Roscommon last night as an example.

Credit must be given to Gavin for the quiet evolution of this team. Anyone know where Flynn is? Saw it asked here a few pages ago but no answer

Saw a post a week or 2 ago about Flynn missing the Leinster final with an injury, think it was torn calf.

iiHyPeRize

danganabu wrote: »

Wouldn't be so sure of that now, Kildare also spurned the 3/4 goal chances they had and Dublin got their two. Callaghan also had a dream day where everything he touched went over the black spot.

10pts is a very wide margin in football. Personally if the line was 10pts and they were playing each other again Id be on the Kildare side of that handicap.

I agree with you.

You also have to remember Kildare scored 1 point from minute 1-20, and at the start of the second half, they managed something similar from the 35th-50th minute.

You're not going to get a baron spell like that in Croke Park from Kerry or Tyrone - even Mayo. Plus Dublin allow you to have the ball out-wide as to score from there is obviously low-percentage, but that could be a dangerous tactic.

Kildare had the goal chance that they should have converted, but Flynn literally kicked if at the goalkeeper. Had they scored that, it would have brought it back to 3 or so, and who knows what might have happened.

Dublin were comfortable enough, but they played a Kildare team who I don't think ever seem to deal with the open space in Croke Park very well - and the space they left early on for those 2 goals cost them.

Kildare impressed me though, Feeley was by far the best midfielder on the field, and they have an impressive full-forward line. Kildare go shock a few this year, because they're not going to be easy to beat.

As for Dublin, well all the formalities out of the way, I suppose this is where they move out of 3rd gear and pick up.

Dyr

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The missing shots should not have affected their side of the scoreboard surely?

Course it does, if dublin had but those away it was lights out for Kildare, instead they miss and Kildare heads stay up then our pal from Wicklow does the rest with his whistle

danganabu

Seven in a row, going for three AI in a row and some still can't help but play the victim

Be funny if it wasn't so tragic!

Paulzx

iiHyPeRize wrote: »

You're not going to get a baron spell like that in Croke Park from Kerry or Tyrone - even Mayo.

From memory Tyrone didn't score in the last 20 mins of last years quarter final in Croke Park against Mayo. All teams can have barren spells. The game was there to be won. I was at that match and it was bizarre how they wouldn't commit to winning the game. I had some extremely frustrated Tyrone supporters beside me!!!

Notwithstanding that Tyrone are a different animal this year and have defintely developed as a scoring team

gormdubhgorm

blanch152 wrote: »

I had forgotten that, the absence of the back door made it so much easier back then. Would the Kerry team have won in 1980, if they had to face a Dublin team coming through the back door?

It also kills the alternative argument that Dublin needed a second chance etc etc.

Stoner

danganabu wrote:

Wouldn't be so sure of that now, Kildare also spurned the 3/4 goal chances they had and Dublin got their two. Callaghan also had a dream day where everything he touched went over the black spot.

Irrelevant, they missed them not Dublin.

danganabu

Stoner wrote: »

Irrelevant, they missed them not Dublin.

Oh agreed and Dublin showed that composure that comes with experience and a winning habit but my point being that on another day and with further experience I would be reluctant to classify Kildare as comfortable a 10 point worse team.

Jayop

Paulzx wrote: »

From memory Tyrone didn't score in the last 20 mins of last years quarter final in Croke Park against Mayo. All teams can have barren spells. The game was there to be won. I was at that match and it was bizarre how they wouldn't commit to winning the game. I had some extremely frustrated Tyrone supporters beside me!!!

Notwithstanding that Tyrone are a different animal this year and have defintely developed as a scoring team

Sadly we scored almost as heavily in Ulster last year, final aside. We had a points average of over 21 for the four games we played before Mayo. I wouldn't be too sure we're that far developed yet until we play a top 3 team in croker.

ProudDUB

danganabu wrote: »

Seven in a row, going for three AI in a row and some still can't help but play the victim

Be funny if it wasn't so tragic!

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :P

DoctaDee

It skipped my mind over the last few days with all the worry about splitting us and taking the money away .. but I meant to remark on the Dublin Minors and specifically the wide and varied clubs that the panel is pulled from - Pats Donabate, Mearnogs, Erins Isle, Cuala etc and a good clattering of Na Fianna .. it just indicates if yer good enough you'll be spotted - gone are the days when you had to play for one of 4/5 teams .. interestingly with all their resources and catchment there wasn't one Crokes lad that I can remember