Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

windy shepard henderson

DoctaDee wrote: »

Likewise I thought under Goughs understanding of consistency, penalising the pull down, that Tom O'Sullivan was lucky to stay on the field, his foul on Con and then I think PSmall afterwards could've seen the numbers evened up. Would've been a complete travesty if he had gone in fairness - but them were his rules today

Was really impressed with Morley and O Sullivan today I didn't think theyd be up to it, and Moran in midfield is back to his best - we've a lot of unsolved match ups to sort

cooper really let dublin down today , penalty was not a penalty fair enough but he knew he was on a yellow and fouled stupidly twice after

kerry like kilkenny or cork in hurling can look poor all year and turn it on when it matters , they were always going to put it up to dublin

i reckon dublin win the next day , they finished the stronger team with 14 men in a nervous type of game
gough didn't have a bad game but you are right , tom o'sullivan should have been sent off
moran is outstanding gets loads of flack from the kerry supporters but probably one of the best midfielders in the country over the last few years , morley is the only real steady defender kerry have , the likes of gavin crowley and paul murphy are excellent going forward but poor at the back

i

windy shepard henderson

JRant wrote: »

Bring COS in, push McCarthy into the middle with Fenton and Dermo for Scully. That would tighten up the middle of the field.

Gough actually went to take the card out and realised he'd already booked him. You could see him almost panicking and then decided to do nothing.

i actually taught the same watching the game today re mccarthy and scully ,

he bottled that tom o'sullivan red card in fairness ,

Bonniedog

Watching it again, there were as always contested decisions. Thought Cooper looked out matched from start and was literally hanging on so always going to be open to cards.


Penalty, not so sure, but Kerry could probably argue they didn't get other ones in other games.

Happens on the day. Was tough game with no one making meal of things and little nastiness off the ball.

We've gotten breaks on other days so no complaint.

Great game and whatever about the doomsayers confirmed that the SFC is alive and well,

ClanofLams

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i actually taught the same watching the game today re mccarthy and scully ,

he bottled that tom o'sullivan red card in fairness ,

This isn’t close to a yellow, much ado about nothing.

https://twitter.com/shanesaint/status/1168276863179022336?s=21

Chalk McHugh

After waking up my gut feeling is still one of relief. Glad to get a second crack. I always thought Kerry would come with a big game and predicted a 2 point Dublin win so i was in no way surprised with how the game unfolded.

Coming up to half time i felt Dublin were in a great position to push on in second half. Kerry left quite a few scores behind them in the first 30 minutes. Could, possibly should, have added 2-3 to their score and i felt they had kicked the game away, fully expecting Dublin to push on in the second half. Then we had the big moment that changed the game. Unlike others on here, i felt Cooper was very wreckless and showed no game intelligence by giving Gough a major decision to make. Living close to the edge is all well and good but you have to expect to fall over the cliff at times and for me Johny can have no complaints. From relative comfort at ht to needless worry and apprehension. Kerry had a spring in their step. It was the last thing we needed.

Second half we played ok up to Paddy Smalls towering effort that the goalkeeper plucked from over the crossbar. It should have been a point. Instead of going 6 points up in the blink of an eye the ball was in Cluxton's net. 4 point swing in 15 seconds. Two in it, with 15 minutes remaining, itchy bum time.

When Kerry went in front through young Spillane i thought all our dreams were going to turn into the worst nightmare possible. Johny Cooper being the new Seamus Darby. Would have been very hard on Cooper to deal with that if we had of lost. Thank god for a reprieve.

Dublin dug deep, from sheer bottle, resilience and a refusal to bend the knee, managed to control the final 10 minutes and will be slightly disappointed to not have won the game with only 2 out of 7 chances converted in this time

All in all a great game. You could say a draw was a fair result. A nice two week break now. Both teams have had a good look at each other. Both can improve. Kerry know now they can go toe to toe with this great team. Another close game in store. Hats off to both teams.

Bonniedog

ClanofLams wrote: »

This isn’t close to a yellow, much ado about nothing.

https://twitter.com/shanesaint/status/1168276863179022336?s=21

Were you drunk when you watched it? That was a card.

Gough was worth 6 points to them.

mystic86

Bonniedog wrote: »

Were you drunk when you watched it? That was a card.

Gough was worth 6 points to them.

You're deluded.

Tombo2001

For the replay - I would wonder if Cooper will play. Cant see him coming in at full back, so the question is does he stay in defence in a reshuffle or does someone else come in.

On a separate but related note - I thought Eoin Murchan did a brilliant job when he came on. His run through the pitch late in the game to set up the equalizing point for Rock was absolutely stellar - and at a time when a lot of more experienced players, including Connolly, were making rash shot choices.

I think there is a case for Murchan possibly coming in for Cooper.

Finally - whether Gough got it wrong, or didn't get it wrong - and there is a pretty good case to say he got it right - Dublin haven't had a red card when it mattered for quite a while; they've been walking the line - they had three or four yellows in the first half against Mayo and if one of those had been red then that also would have been a very different game.

The other thing - forwards. I really do think Bernard Brogan is an option of the bench. Thought Mannion was very good in open play even though he wasn't scoring. Outside of him and Rock though, I think there is room on the team for Brogan as a sub, or even as a starter. Am I mad Ted?

Bonniedog

mystic86 wrote: »

You're deluded.

Delighted is the word beginning with "de..." you are seeking.


Fair play to Kerry, they psyched Gough out of it and it paid off. Watch it again. No penalty, no Cooper sent off, Sullivan should have walked.

That's at least a 6 point swing. But it will be all the more pleasant when we send them home with their ar£e in a sling in two weeks

Tombo2001

Bonniedog wrote: »

Were you drunk when you watched it? That was a card.

Gough was worth 6 points to them.

So is that - worth 9 points, but less the 3 for not penalizing Cluxton coming off his line?

Bonniedog

Tombo2001 wrote: »

So is that - worth 9 points, but less the 3 for not penalizing Cluxton coming off his line?

Ah yes...

Tombo2001

Thinking about it objectively.

McCarthy's save off the line.

Cluxton's questionable penalty save.

Cluxtons finger tip save onto the cross bar.

Zero score from Midfield or Half Forward line.

Three points from play from O'Callaghan/ Mannion.

Was it 8 Kerry wides in the first half?

Dublin got out of jail big style.

Chalk McHugh

Tombo2001 wrote: »

For the replay - I would wonder if Cooper will play. Cant see him coming in at full back, so the question is does he stay in defence in a reshuffle or does someone else come in.

On a separate but related note - I thought Eoin Murchan did a brilliant job when he came on. His run through the pitch late in the game to set up the equalizing point for Rock was absolutely stellar - and at a time when a lot of more experienced players, including Connolly, were making rash shot choices.

I think there is a case for Murchan possibly coming in for Cooper.

Finally - whether Gough got it wrong, or didn't get it wrong - and there is a pretty good case to say he got it right - Dublin haven't had a red card when it mattered for quite a while; they've been walking the line - they had three or four yellows in the first half against Mayo and if one of those had been red then that also would have been a very different game.

The other thing - forwards. I really do think Bernard Brogan is an option of the bench. Thought Mannion was very good in open play even though he wasn't scoring. Outside of him and Rock though, I think there is room on the team for Brogan as a sub, or even as a starter. Am I mad Ted?

Of course Cooper plays. He is one of our most important defenders. He had a nightmare yesterday. It happens. Have no doubt Johny Cooper will be starting next day. Murchan for Cooper? For me, no chance.

Chalk McHugh

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thinking about it objectively.

McCarthy's save off the line.

Cluxton's questionable penalty save.

Cluxtons finger tip save onto the cross bar.

Zero score from Midfield or Half Forward line.

Three points from play from O'Callaghan/ Mannion.

Was it 8 Kerry wides in the first half?

Dublin got out of jail big style.

Yes but Kerry can create all those problems again and wont be as wasteful.

Drumpot

Watch the long angle of the ball into o Sullivan when he’s fouled in 2nd half and only gets a free. He’s clearly fouled in the box but when the ball comes down he’s outside box. When they were reviewing it on highlights last night I think it was O rourke who mistook it for the Kerry peno.

Plenty of subjective decisions went for Kerry and against Dublin. Ref might of explained them but that doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to feel on another day things could of gone differently. Doesn’t mean Googh had a poor game, he was generally very good, but it does mean the ref gave Kerry more benefit of the doubt then Dublin in contestable decisions.

There were a few other moments that they didn’t look at. I thought there was charging from Moran when Kerry got a point in second half, he just ploughed Head first through a Dublin player. I noticed plenty of dragging off the ball that wasn’t being punished. I also think Gough went to give O Sullivan a card and changed his mind like another poster said.

BKWDR

Also, just me or was there absolute zero crowd reaction to Connolly coming on. They would have been better bringing on lowndes!

And not using the bench to its fullest!

Tombo2001

...

Drumpot

BKWDR wrote: »

Also, just me or was there absolute zero crowd reaction to Connolly coming on. They would have been better bringing on lowndes!

And not using the bench to its fullest!

No I noticed there was a bit of a cheer when Connolly came.

But on the crowd, for long periods it was an odd atmosphere. Up until the red card at times there were a lot of quiet periods were it almost felt like a league game with a full house.

Bonniedog

BKWDR wrote: »

Also, just me or was there absolute zero crowd reaction to Connolly coming on. They would have been better bringing on lowndes!

And not using the bench to its fullest!

All of Dublin subs other than Murchan who spent most of the time inside Kerry half, were offensive changes.

They were going for a win with 14 men and a dodgy ref.

Think about it. That's some balls. Connolly would not have been my choice all the same. That was a Bernie or O'Gara moment but they weren't there. Will be next time/

BloodyBill

Bonniedog wrote: »

All of Dublin subs other than Murchan who spent most of the time inside Kerry half, were offensive changes.

They were going for a win with 14 men and a dodgy ref.

Think about it. That's some balls. Connolly would not have been my choice all the same. That was a Bernie or O'Gara moment but they weren't there. Will be next time/

Murchan made a difference but he makes these great runs and then stops dead, turns back and passes backwards. Why doesn't he back himself and keep going like McCaffrey does?!.
Kilkenny 'crabbing' across the pitch just condenses space. In rugby you need to attack straight ahead on the gain line. You ll find that Kilkenny actually loses Dublin Field position alot of the time.

Tombo2001

BloodyBill wrote: »

Murchan made a difference but he makes these great runs and then stops dead, turns back and passes backwards. Why doesn't he back himself and keep going like McCaffrey does?!.
Kilkenny 'crabbing' across the pitch just condenses space. In rugby you need to attack straight ahead on the gain line. You ll find that Kilkenny actually loses Dublin Field position alot of the time.

Murchan used one of those great runs to set up the equalizing point at a time when a lot of others were making poor decisions.

Bit unfair to compare him to McCaffrey - for all the eulogizing on Kilkenny, Connolly and Fenton in recent weeks - for me McCaffrey is incredible, and the standout player on the team.

Go back to last years final, the great start by Tyrone = and then the kick out to McCaffrey that was the turning point in the game.

I wouldnt go as far as saying I agree with you on Kilkenny, but on the face of it.... lets say i'd be asking someone who knows more about football than i do to explain what is contribution was yesterday.

Drumpot

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Murchan used one of those great runs to set up the equalizing point at a time when a lot of others were making poor decisions.

Bit unfair to compare him to McCaffrey - for all the eulogizing on Kilkenny, Connolly and Fenton in recent weeks - for me McCaffrey is incredible, and the standout player on the team.

Go back to last years final, the great start by Tyrone = and then the kick out to McCaffrey that was the turning point in the game.

I wouldnt go as far as saying I agree with you on Kilkenny, but on the face of it.... lets say i'd be asking someone who knows more about football than i do to explain what is contribution was yesterday.

One thing Kilkenny didn’t do was shy away from the game and I thought he was aggressive and looking for possession a lot near the end when Dublin really needed players to stand up. I’m not particularly great at tactics or rating players but I thought Kilkennys efforts made up for his lack of identifiable contributions.

Slattsy

Good morning all. Firstly, how are the heads?

I didnt come on here yesterday for obvious reasons. I'd say the match thread was some craic though with all those neutrals :pac: :pac:

I've not had a chance to look through this thread so apologies if im repeating things.

Another final and another final where we underperfoemed. I've said it before and i'll say it again, we are never the same team in a final. I thought it was a good game, lacking in quality somewhat but it must have been good for the proper neutrals out there. Defences were definately on top. And the Kerry midfield certainly won their duels.

It was a funny feeling when the whistle went, there was a lot of relief, but I actually thought we best team for most of the game, so i feel a bit aggrieved also. The last 10 minutes was all Dublin but we didnt take our chances. But playing for 40 odd minutes with a man less, against a good Kerry team, and still feeling we should have won the games says a lot about these lads. You cant fault their effort.

No complaint with the Cooper red, it was stupid. Thought the peno was harsh though, you see that every game. Gough did ok, let a lot go, but he completed bottled the O'Sullivan incident.

McCaffrey, Howard, Rock and Fitzsimons all deserve a special mention. They were all fantastic and picked up the slack from some of the underperformers.

Kilkenny was far too safe. MDMA looked unfit. James McCarthy was atrocious truth be told. Scully wasnt a threat. Jack Barry had Fenton in his pocket all game.

Kerry certainly wont fear us in the replay. They know there's nothing in it and they'll take confidence from yesterday.

But for the life of me i cant see how Fenton, McCarthy, Mannion, O'Callaghan will be as quiet again. MDMA will not start the replay. McCarthy will partner Fenton and O'Sullivan will come in to play sweeper.
I think Scully could be dropped also, i know he does a lot of tracking and his workrate is immense but someone like Costello could cause trouble.
Fitzsimons was brilliant on Clifford after Cooper was gone, didnt give him a sniff, will he mark him next time? And Murchas was great when he came on, could have played himself into the final!

We'll look forward to the replay with bathed breath, and i think a lot of our players will too, as they know they can play better. I dont think many Kerry lads can say that.

Áth Claith abú.

Drumpot

@slattsy

Do you really think Kerry can’t play better? They could of had a couple of goals, made some poor choices at important times and didn’t go for the jugular when they had us on the ropes. I’d argue with some experience and a bit more composure that Kerry wins yesterday and now they have more experience going into the replay.

The replay might be just a step too far for them and Dublin can of course play much better but I worry we can make too much out of this 14 man scenario. Our presumption is Dublin will raise their game , if they don’t I think we will be done by a Kerry team that has plenty of scope for improvement and a bench to match.

Chalk McHugh

Drumpot wrote: »

One thing Kilkenny didn’t do was shy away from the game and I thought he was aggressive and looking for possession a lot near the end when Dublin really needed players to stand up. I’m not particularly great at tactics or rating players but I thought Kilkennys efforts made up for his lack of identifiable contributions.

Kilkenny was good yesterday. Kept showing for ball and was a picture of calm in a frenzied last 10 minutes. I'm a big Ciaran Kilkenny fan. He does some amount of work. Without him we'd have lost one or two finals. He's part of the Super Six for me, Cluxton, McCaffrey, Fenton, Kilkenny, Con and Mannion. Kilkenny rarely lets us down.

flasher0030

Bonniedog wrote: »

Were you drunk when you watched it? That was a card.

Gough was worth 6 points to them.

Jesus Bonnie - big change in your mood from the relaxed post after midnight last night, to the "hot under the collar" post here. The hangover must be kicking in bad. It was explained clearly on the Sunday Game last night about the red card versus no red card. In nearly all cases, a player will not receive 2 yellows for just 2 fouls, unless they are pretty bad fouls. Cooper got his tick - his warning. Then there was a blatant foul on Clifford near the endline. And then finally when Clifford had out-maneuvered him by shielding him out of the way, Johnny caught hold of his arm and dragged him down. Third incident. Gone. It was different with O'Sullivan. He had two incidents of note. One warning. One yellow. I don't see how there can be any comparison or confusion.

On the various TV analysis, I don't think it was taken into context enough the difference that the sending off made. All were bigging the Kerry team up. Especially Spillane. Proud, great performance etc. I think if Dublin had the 15, they would have blown Kerry away. And I think they will do on Saturday week. I hope it's close, but I think Kerry have left it behind, big time.

Chalk McHugh

Slattsy wrote: »

Good morning all. Firstly, how are the heads?

I didnt come on here yesterday for obvious reasons. I'd say the match thread was some craic though with all those neutrals :pac: :pac:

I've not had a chance to look through this thread so apologies if im repeating things.

Another final and another final where we underperfoemed. I've said it before and i'll say it again, we are never the same team in a final. I thought it was a good game, lacking in quality somewhat but it must have been good for the proper neutrals out there. Defences were definately on top. And the Kerry midfield certainly won their duels.

It was a funny feeling when the whistle went, there was a lot of relief, but I actually thought we best team for most of the game, so i feel a bit aggrieved also. The last 10 minutes was all Dublin but we didnt take our chances. But playing for 40 odd minutes with a man less, against a good Kerry team, and still feeling we should have won the games says a lot about these lads. You cant fault their effort.

No complaint with the Cooper red, it was stupid. Thought the peno was harsh though, you see that every game. Gough did ok, let a lot go, but he completed bottled the O'Sullivan incident.

McCaffrey, Howard, Rock and Fitzsimons all deserve a special mention. They were all fantastic and picked up the slack from some of the underperformers.

Kilkenny was far too safe. MDMA looked unfit. James McCarthy was atrocious truth be told. Scully wasnt a threat. Jack Barry had Fenton in his pocket all game.

Kerry certainly wont fear us in the replay. They know there's nothing in it and they'll take confidence from yesterday.

But for the life of me i cant see how Fenton, McCarthy, Mannion, O'Callaghan will be as quiet again. MDMA will not start the replay. McCarthy will partner Fenton and O'Sullivan will come in to play sweeper.
I think Scully could be dropped also, i know he does a lot of tracking and his workrate is immense but someone like Costello could cause trouble.
Fitzsimons was brilliant on Clifford after Cooper was gone, didnt give him a sniff, will he mark him next time? And Murchas was great when he came on, could have played himself into the final!

We'll look forward to the replay with bathed breath, and i think a lot of our players will too, as they know they can play better. I dont think many Kerry lads can say that.

Áth Claith abú.

Clifford had a bit of a nightmare. Was it one point from play? He wont be as bad again. Good post though.

Slattsy

Drumpot wrote: »

@slattsy

Do you really think Kerry can’t play better? They could of had a couple of goals, made some poor choices at important times and didn’t go for the jugular when they had us on the ropes. I’d argue with some experience and a bit more composure that Kerry wins yesterday and now they have more experience going into the replay.

The replay might be just a step too far for them and Dublin can of course play much better but I worry we can make too much out of this 14 man scenario. Our presumption is Dublin will raise their game , if they don’t I think we will be done by a Kerry team that has plenty of scope for improvement and a bench to match.

Thats kinda my point, Kerry had more chances, an extra man, and they still couldnt beat us.

44 minutes with an extra man was a huge advantage, and they didnt take it.

Im not sure about them not going for the jugular either, they couldnt, as we didnt allow them and we finished the game stronger.

Tombo2001

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Clifford had a bit of a nightmare. Was it one point from play? He wont be as bad again. Good post though.

That's a bit much - look it, if he hadn't been fouled he could have scored a lot more.

He got two points from play. Which was more than 4 of the Dublin forwards. It was far from a mare.

ThunbergsAreGo

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Clifford had a bit of a nightmare. Was it one point from play? He wont be as bad again. Good post though.

Yeah thats my worry, he was really poor (but hes a young lad in is first Senior Final), surely he wont be as wasteful the next day.