Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

gormdubhgorm

Bambi wrote: »

This is Football not some emotive social media BS, you don't get the big finale to your career that you "deserve".

I think Bernard would have made the difference in that last 10 minutes or so, rarely loses the ball and is more of a team player than Connolly.
Connolly is more of an unpredictable player a wildcard.

Bonniedog

Reminded me a bit of 2016 draw when he grabbed the ball from CK and went for mad shot from a sideline when recycling would have closed the game out.

Same yesterday. Kerry backs were on their uppers and moving the ball around, looking for a runner was the option. Fkn Captain Universe goes for one from 40 yards.

Fann Linn

Don't know what to make of yesterday. First off, I really enjoyed it. Secondly, after 30 mins with 15v15 we were 5 points up. Then after 55/56 mins with 14 men and playing poorly we were still 5 points up. And then according to O'Rourke we got the last 5 attempts at scoring with 3 wides, 1 dropping short and 1 going over.

I think with the criticism being levelled at Gavin initially plus Fenton, Mannion, Kilkenny, Con and some others that we should witness some sort of backlash in a forthnights time.

rolling boh

Find the Connolly cameos bizarre with so little game time Jim must have very little faith in Berno and others when yesterday I think Berno would have been a safer bet for the last few minutes .Would love to be proven wrong but do not see the point in putting DC on with so little time to go either gamble by starting him or at least the second half to give him a chance if Jim really feels he is the the best option for a score .

Matt Bianco

rolling boh wrote: »

Find the Connolly cameos bizarre with so little game time Jim must have very little faith in Berno and others when yesterday I think Berno would have been a safer bet for the last few minutes .Would love to be proven wrong but do not see the point in putting DC on with so little time to go either gamble by starting him or at least the second half to give him a chance if Jim really feels he is the the best option for a score .

He's a ball winner as is Kevin Mc - they got three important turnovers after coming on when Kerry were content to play the clock down rather than going for the jugular.

Bonniedog

Well, that is a good point in fairness. Wouldn't be Bernie's forte to win dirty ball on the 40.

Drumpot

Fann Linn wrote: »

Don't know what to make of yesterday. First off, I really enjoyed it. Secondly, after 30 mins with 15v15 we were 5 points up. Then after 55/56 mins with 14 men and playing poorly we were still 5 points up. And then according to O'Rourke we got the last 5 attempts at scoring with 3 wides, 1 dropping short and 1 going over.

I think with the criticism being levelled at Gavin initially plus Fenton, Mannion, Kilkenny, Con and some others that we should witness some sort of backlash in a forthnights time.

Gavin got the Cooper situation very badly wrong. I text a bunch of friends after 15 mins that he needed to at the very least move Cooper off Clifford. It wasnt rocket science think most people around me thought the same. Its not hindsight, it seemed fairly obvious particularly given the peno and yellow Cooper had already received.

You can look at those missed chances with different viewpoints. Some might say Dublin were panicking and only had those chances because Kerry were panicking a bit and sitting back due to lack of composure/inexperience.

I would also suggest that Kerry are not Mayo. I dont think this is like when an experienced Mayo side missed their chances against us.

I think for every positive we can take there is an equally concerning negative that if the team doesnt rectify could easily catch them out in the replay. If kerry get momentum next day going down the home stretch I dont think they will be as naieve/poor with possession.

Chalk McHugh

Drumpot wrote: »

Gavin got the Cooper situation very badly wrong. I text a bunch of friends after 15 mins that he needed to at the very least move Cooper off Clifford. It wasnt rocket science think most people around me thought the same. Its not hindsight, it seemed fairly obvious particularly given the peno and yellow Cooper had already received.

You can look at those missed chances with different viewpoints. Some might say Dublin were panicking and only had those chances because Kerry were panicking a bit and sitting back due to lack of composure/inexperience.

I would also suggest that Kerry are not Mayo. I dont think this is like when an experienced Mayo side missed their chances against us.

I think for every positive we can take there is an equally concerning negative that if the team doesnt rectify could easily catch them out in the replay. If kerry get momentum next day going down the home stretch I dont think they will be as naieve/poor with possession.

Cooper was trusted not to make a braindead tackle when already on a yellow (and a tick) and also after been warned by Gough. Jim Gavin not responsible for a player doing something stupid on the field. Who's to say if Cooper was moved on to another player he wouldn't have done the same? You also had John Small, as is the norm, threading on ice with a yellow card. I was more worried with him seeing the line than Cooper but i have to say i've always thought Johny Cooper, for such a good player, is a poor tackler and he was so poor yesterday it was no surprise he got the line.

How Soon Is Now

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

Gavin got the Cooper situation very badly wrong. I text a bunch of friends after 15 mins that he needed to at the very least move Cooper off Clifford. It wasnt rocket science think most people around me thought the same. Its not hindsight, it seemed fairly obvious particularly given the peno and yellow Cooper had already received.

You can look at those missed chances with different viewpoints. Some might say Dublin were panicking and only had those chances because Kerry were panicking a bit and sitting back due to lack of composure/inexperience.

I would also suggest that Kerry are not Mayo. I dont think this is like when an experienced Mayo side missed their chances against us.

I think for every positive we can take there is an equally concerning negative that if the team doesnt rectify could easily catch them out in the replay. If kerry get momentum next day going down the home stretch I dont think they will be as naieve/poor with possession.

Cooper was trusted not to make a braindead tackle when already on a yellow (and a tick) and also after been warned by Gough. Jim Gavin not responsible for a player doing something stupid on the field. Who's to say if Cooper was moved on to another player he wouldn't have done the same? You also had John Small, as is the norm, threading on ice with a yellow card. I was more worried with him seeing the line than Cooper but i have to say i've always thought Johny Cooper, for such a good player, is a poor tackler and he was so poor yesterday it was no surprise he got the line.

Ya as much as I think the ref was a bit all over the plsce at times Cooper and Small where far to quick throwing themselves into sloppy tackles when it wasn't necessary.

I was waiting for a sending off or a black card everytime one of them where run at.

Drumpot

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Cooper was trusted not to make a braindead tackle when already on a red and also after been warned by Gough. Jim Gavin not responsible for a player doing something stupid on the field. Who's to say if Cooper qas moved on to another player he wouldn't have done the same? You also had John Small, as is the norm, threading on ice with a yellow card. I was more worried with him seeing the line than Cooper but i have to say i've always thought Johny Cooper, for such a good player, is a poor tackler and he was so poor yesterday it was no surprise he got the line.

I got sent off in the Dublin minor championship final in 1995 (or 94) against Ballyboden. I had been marking a nippy corner forward who was one of their best players. I was booked in the first half and was under loads of pressure for the rest of the game. It was nearly impossible to tackle without taking a chance and in the end I got done for a tackle that some get away with. I probobley deserved to be sent off to be fair but it was clear I was struggling to figure out how to balance out my booking with defending.

Yes, Gavin trusts his players and gets it right more then not, but he got this badly wrong to the point that it could of cost us the game. I think for the players sake Gavin would of been better protecting him from himself to be honest. He was one booking away from a red from minute 17 and there was more then enough in those first 17 minutes to be extremely concerned with Cooper.

How Soon Is Now

Defensively I don't trust John Small would rather Murchan or change things up and bring in COS.

Small has proven on more then one occasion that he's a liability and is far to rash in a tackle.

Used to feel the same about O Gara up the other end but at least he had the real potential to win you a game.

How Soon Is Now

Bambi wrote: »

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Its part of the reason i think about the likes of Bernard and how much the Dublin team means to him and how much himself and his family have given to Dublin football. You wonder will he actually get his chance to finish the way he deserves to. I seriously all messing aside don't think it would set Dublin back in anyway shape or form either!

This is Football not some emotive social media BS, you don't get the big finale to your career that you "deserve".

I didn't really mean it in a sense that he should get some perfect grand finale! More a sense of Bernard has proven himself time and time again and if he's fit enough and at a high enough physical level to be still part of the panel then he should be making up the bench.

It's one place for a guy who has the potential on any given day to win you a game where others might not.

If there's a place for Peadar O Cofaigh Byrne on the bench in an All Ireland Final then there's a place for Bernard Brogan!

At end of the day its management's choice not mine or anyone else's and I fully respect that I just think why not have the option there if its needed.

Drumpot

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I didn't really mean it in a sense that he should get some perfect grand finale! More a sense of Bernard has proven himself time and time again and if he's fit enough and at a high enough physical level to be still part of the panel then he should be making up the bench.

It's one place for a guy who has the potential on any given day to win you a game where others might not.

If there's a place for Peadar O Cofaigh Byrne on the bench in an All Ireland Final then there's a place for Bernard Brogan!

At end of the day its management's choice not mine or anyone else's and I fully respect that I just think why not have the option there if its needed.

I was in Omaha and you could see how anxious brogan was to impress. He went nuts when somebody didn’t pass it to him for a goal Chance (can’t remember who), maybe that in itself didn’t please Gavin ? Giving out to a team mate who made a call that didn’t work out. They don’t usually argue or complain with each other on the pitch.

How Soon Is Now

Drumpot wrote: »

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I didn't really mean it in a sense that he should get some perfect grand finale! More a sense of Bernard has proven himself time and time again and if he's fit enough and at a high enough physical level to be still part of the panel then he should be making up the bench.

It's one place for a guy who has the potential on any given day to win you a game where others might not.

If there's a place for Peadar O Cofaigh Byrne on the bench in an All Ireland Final then there's a place for Bernard Brogan!

At end of the day its management's choice not mine or anyone else's and I fully respect that I just think why not have the option there if its needed.

I was in Omaha and you could see how anxious brogan was to impress. He went nuts when somebody didn’t pass it to him for a goal Chance (can’t remember who), maybe that in itself didn’t please Gavin (giving out to a team mate)?

Ya I remember it meself maybe there's something in it alright but at the same time the guy is obviously fired up to perform which can't be a bad thing either!

I mean when you look at what he has going on off of the pitch between career paths and family to be still that motivated to do it on the pitch in an amateur sport at this stage in his Dublin career that's drive right there.

Kerrydude1981

The one thing I admire about the Dublin team is the patience they show when the have the ball, they keep it and move it around until a opening appears and then they just go for it

Towards the end of the game yesterday they seemed to go off this plan of attack and started taking on shots, Paddy Small and Connolly's shots were examples of that, its not what yer lads do and I think its something we wont see happening in the replay

Great game though, looking forward to the replay

rolling boh

Fair point about winning the ball by DC just think the game time is strange and also true about Berno just might be a little too hungry to get a score and likely to shoot a bit rash he was indeed really fired up to score in Omagh and Jim would have noted that.Still think he could get on the bench though.

Chalk McHugh

Drumpot wrote: »

I got sent off in the Dublin minor championship final in 1995 (or 94) against Ballyboden. I had been marking a nippy corner forward who was one of their best players. I was booked in the first half and was under loads of pressure for the rest of the game. It was nearly impossible to tackle without taking a chance and in the end I got done for a tackle that some get away with. I probobley deserved to be sent off to be fair but it was clear I was struggling to figure out how to balance out my booking with defending.

Yes, Gavin trusts his players and gets it right more then not, but he got this badly wrong to the point that it could of cost us the game. I think for the players sake Gavin would of been better protecting him from himself to be honest. He was one booking away from a red from minute 17 and there was more then enough in those first 17 minutes to be extremely concerned with Cooper.

So what would you do? Move him on to Geaney or another Kerry forward? He could just as easily mistime a tackle on another forward. Would you take him off after 20 minutes? Or trust he'll not do something stupid seeing he's on a yellow? He had zero need to do what he did. He wasn't taking one for the team and preventing a goal scoring oppurtunity. It was ridiculous. Especially as one more strike and he was out. No one to blame but himself. Certainly not Jim Gavin.

Ken Tucky

Conor Lane will ref replay. Will there be protests about him lol!

seamus

Kerry will complain about any ref that's not from Kerry.

Slattsy

Dublin Conor as he's known. Lovely.

BKWDR

I just hope JG and don't overthink the matxhups for the replay like they did against mayo and veer too far off the winning course. Like starting OGara or something wild

gormdubhgorm

seamus wrote: »

Kerry will complain about any ref that's not from Kerry.

I would like Ewan McKenna to ref it just for the craic.....

IRE60

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would like Ewan McKenna to ref it just for the craic.....

I'd be the first to scale the perspex in front of the hill to meet the man!

rebel girl 15

Slattsy wrote: »

Dublin Conor as he's known. Lovely.

Ah now, it’s Cork Conor which may annoy them even more! ‘‘Twas my home club that was on the pitch for the Scor and one of Conor’s umpires is also from my home club. Sure Banteer is only 12 or so miles from the Kerry border!

mystic86

Bonniedog wrote: »

Delighted is the word beginning with "de..." you are seeking.


Fair play to Kerry, they psyched Gough out of it and it paid off. Watch it again. No penalty, no Cooper sent off, Sullivan should have walked.

That's at least a 6 point swing. But it will be all the more pleasant when we send them home with their ar£e in a sling in two weeks

sad.

Drumpot

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

So what would you do? Move him on to Geaney or another Kerry forward? He could just as easily mistime a tackle on another forward. Would you take him off after 20 minutes? Or trust he'll not do something stupid seeing he's on a yellow? He had zero need to do what he did. He wasn't taking one for the team and preventing a goal scoring oppurtunity. It was ridiculous. Especially as one more strike and he was out. No one to blame but himself. Certainly not Jim Gavin.

I would of moved him and if he continued to struggle have him off. He couldn’t handle Clifford and that’s where all his fouls happened.

I’m not blaming Gavin for Cooper doing it , I think as a coach he took a massive gamble that didn’t pay off. They are talking about it on the radio how Gavin agonized for long periods about taking him off. How Gavin was watching Cooper while the game was going on elsewhere. Gavin knew the gamble he was taking but ultimately managers are judged on the decisions they make that go well or bad, Gavin is no different.

hunter164

That game yesterday reminded me of the Kilkenny hurling team a few years ago, underperform and somehow still nearly win. There was always a sense of inevitability when they went to replays with some teams nearly beat before the replay as they realised that they were there for the taking but the opportunity wasn’t capitalised on.

I wonder will Kerry sit back and think, we missed a big chance yesterday.

Chalk McHugh

Drumpot wrote: »

I would of moved him and if he continued to struggle have him off. He couldn’t handle Clifford and that’s where all his fouls happened.

I’m not blaming Gavin for Cooper doing it , I think as a coach he took a massive gamble that didn’t pay off. They are talking about it on the radio how Gavin agonized for long periods about taking him off. How Gavin was watching Cooper while the game was going on elsewhere. Gavin knew the gamble he was taking but ultimately managers are judged on the decisions they make that go well or bad, Gavin is no different.

I'm listening. None of the three said they would have changed him before ht. All said Jim would have trusted him to get to ht without doing something ridiculous. Maybe have a word with him then. But he's one of Jims generals so he trusted Cooper to at least get to the break. You blame Jim for that. I don't. Just different opinions. I expect Cooper to play well next day.

Chalk McHugh

It's bizarre that Brolly said it was a free out to Dublin for Coopers red card.

rebel girl 15

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

It's bizarre that Brolly said it was a free out to Dublin for Coopers red card.

I wasn’t watching it, but I heard that Spillane ended up being the voice of reason and Brolly went crazy about it.