Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

ProudDUB

Bambi wrote: »

I reckon because Dublin have breezed past every team the played into the final will mean that a lot of them will be overlooked for all stars.

Oh I dunno, the winner of the AI usually gets 6-8, loser gets 5-7, with 2-4 spread out amongst the losing semi finalists, or someone who shone exceptionally brightly in the earlier stages. If Tyrone or Kerry had "they died with their boots on" kind of losses, they'd probably get a couple each, but other than Geaney, am struggling to see any of them being a dead cert.

Donal55

ProudDUB wrote: »

I doubt that. Winner of the AI usually gets 6-8, loser gets 5-7, with 2-4 spread out amongst the losing semi finalists, or someone who shone exceptionally brightly in the earlier stages. If Tyrone or Kerry had "they died with their boots on" kind of losses, they'd probably get a couple each, but other than Geaney, am struggling to see any of them being a dead cert.

Cavanagh for the year that's in it.

brocbrocach

Major thing that stood out to me as a neutral was the absolutely great clean tackling by Dublin, especially in the first half.
2 or 3 times Mannion robbed a Tyrone defender coming forward. Very clever, skilful play. With the way Tyrone play each turnover is worth a point to an opponent.
It was a great display and I loved seeing the better footballing team win but I'd be careful not to read too much into it. It was a bit of a perfect storm for Dublin the way Tyrone set up and played.

gormdubhgorm

Doltanian wrote: »

The Dubs, love em or hate em you have to admire them.

Culchies want to be us.... and Nordies want to be governed by us
And we have the best team ever....

Why wouldn't you admire us?

corny

brocbrocach wrote: »

Major thing that stood out to me as a neutral was the absolutely great clean tackling by Dublin, especially in the first half.
2 or 3 times Mannion robbed a Tyrone defender coming forward. Very clever, skilful play. With the way Tyrone play each turnover is worth a point to an opponent.
It was a great display and I loved seeing the better footballing team win but I'd be careful not to read too much into it. It was a bit of a perfect storm for Dublin the way Tyrone set up and played.

The one great quality both teams in the final share is that it won't make a blind bit of difference what we say here or what the media say. Both teams exist in a bubble. They've proven it time and again.

Bunny Colvin

Slattsy wrote: »

Jesus the Guinness is awful in Quinns. Never again.

Anyway, onto the match.
If you wanted a team to set up on how not to beat Dublin, it was Tyrone yesterday. Completely inept from Harte.
Have to say the Tyrone fans were top class yesterday, very knowledgeable and respectful. There wasnt a bad word said from either set of fans, which was great to see considering the vile you get from a certain counties fans.

I thought we were imperious from start to finish and i might get stick for saying this but i genuinely dont think we got out of 3rd gear. Fenton was brilliant yesterday, his performance seems to have gone under the radar somewhat. We've a gem in our hands in O'Callaghan, he's pure quality. YPOTY is nailed for him. Mannion ran his socks off and was good again. I could go through the team and praise them all really.

I dont buy into the whole 'we have not been tested / we're under-cooked for the final' line that seems to be out there, because regardless of the opposition, how tight or easy a game is, we'll continue to do the exact same thing, be patient and work the ball until we're into the clear. Were exactly where we want to be in my eyes.
I think our shot selection this year has been impressive, there's very few pot shots being taken, Gavin has them well drilled; recycle, be patient and work the ball until a man is free and in a better position to stick it over the bar or you'll be off.

So Mayo again, we know each other well. Andy Moran has been their main man this year but he's never done it against us. Id stick Mick Fitz on him. Put Cooper on O'Connor and watch him throw his toys out of the pram, again. Be interesting to see where O'Shea plays, but not overly fussed by him, he's never turned up for a big game in his life.

Obviously if we turn up and play our best we win. Gavin touched on it yesterday, and i've said it myself, we didnt play our best in the AI Final last year. We were dire in the drawn game and even in the replay i didnt think we were ourselves, the nerves and occasion can get to the best of them i suppose.
But we look a better team this year, personally. Seems to be a new found fluidity. Jack Mc is back and playing well, O'Callaghan is on board now and shooting the lights out, Kilkenny controlling games, Mannion is at the top of his game and Rock will kick every free over the bar. All in all, im very confident

Andy Moran has never done it against Dublin?

ProudDUB

Haven't watched the game back yet. Keep putting it off.....like, I know I can only ever watch it back for the first time, once.

DoctaDee

The one thing I picked up watching it back which completely altered my opinion watching real time was the influence of Scully. I thought initially that the game had passed him by, anything but, he was very good in the tackle and physically offered a lot more than it first appeared.

Slattsy

DoctaDee wrote: »

The one thing I picked up watching it back which completely altered my opinion watching real time was the influence of Scully. I thought initially that the game had passed him by, anything but, he was very good in the tackle and physically offered a lot more than it first appeared.

Great ball carrier. Does a serious shift.

Stoner

Slattsy wrote:

Jesus the Guinness is awful in Quinns. Never again.

Man why are you drinking there??

Use to be a kind of local of ours but I haven't stepped inside the door in years now

Bonniedog

DoctaDee wrote: »

The one thing I picked up watching it back which completely altered my opinion watching real time was the influence of Scully. I thought initially that the game had passed him by, anything but, he was very good in the tackle and physically offered a lot more than it first appeared.

He was probably unfortunate to be called ashore, especially as he had just broken up a dangerous Tyrone attack, but he was on a yellow it was possibly wise move as he wasn't pulling out! He's improved greatly this year.

Stoner

He was very good, I said before the game that I didn't think he was ready for the physical side of it. But I was wrong, Mayo will be different though.

I hear Costello is out anyway

Bastic has missed the bench twice now and Reddin the same. No Schutte either
Carthy must be doing well in training, as I thought Howard was ahead of him, I think he'll actually make the bench for the final.

I posted in the wrong forum about Connelly not starting ahead of Mannion, O'Callaghan and Kilkenny.
It was a great confidence booster for the three. It was suggested here (with reason) that Mannion has been a poor starter sometimes but I think he's put that to bed now.

I genuinely think that Connelly would slow up the half-forward line with his fluting around , he'd have invited the Tyrone lads in on him.
I understand his passing and range are very useful, but with an average of under two points a game it's not as important as some might think as the other three are all generous with assists.

I hope that a different Connelly comes back now. With O'Callaghan there he's looking at serious competition for his place, Kilkenny is a sure thing, this leaves just one place for him from being the first name on the list he's fighting with Flynn , Mannion and Scully. I'd still be tempted to start him inside but Andrews has a good record against Mayo

Rock will be needed against Mayo unless O'Callaghan takes the inside ones and Cluxton takes the long range ones again.

Slattsy

Stoner wrote: »

Man why are you drinking there??

Use to be a kind of local of ours but I haven't stepped inside the door in years now

Ah myself and the old man we're walking out of Croker and I got a phone call, my sisters and bro in law were all there.

First time I've been there in a long time. And won't be back in!

gormdubhgorm

Stoner wrote: »

Rock will be needed against Mayo unless O'Callaghan takes the inside ones and Cluxton takes the long range ones again.

I think the days of Cluxton taking frees are over.
He is out of practise taking them at his age the long walk up to a free adds unnecessary mileage on the clock!

Stoner

gormdubhgorm wrote:

I think the days of Cluxton taking frees are over. He is out of practise taking them at his age the long walk up to a free adds unnecessary mileage on the clock!

True he hasn't looked sharp at them I'm a few years now

Dyr

Noticed Sean Cavanagh expressing amazement at how strong Dublin were. According to him Tyrone left no stone unturned in their conditioning this year. That's a good side given Tyrone's physicality.

Maybe its the years of Kerry yarra talk making me cranky, but I was suspecting that he was implying that Dublin are fully pro the way he was going on about it.

BonnieSituation

Bambi wrote: »

Noticed Sean Cavanagh expressing amazement at how strong Dublin were. According to him Tyrone left no stone unturned in their conditioning this year. That's a good side given Tyrone's physicality.

Maybe its the years of Kerry yarra talk making me cranky, but I was suspecting that he was implying that Dublin are fully pro the way he was going on about it.

I didn't read that at all. I think he was genuinely complimentary about what happened. Most of the lads I was out with on Sunday were too.

Even the KOTF/Yerras have been effusive in their praise. It's weird.

DoctaDee

Bambi wrote: »

Noticed Sean Cavanagh expressing amazement at how strong Dublin were. According to him Tyrone left no stone unturned in their conditioning this year. That's a good side given Tyrone's physicality.

Maybe its the years of Kerry yarra talk making me cranky, but I was suspecting that he was implying that Dublin are fully pro the way he was going on about it.

... yeah and that view was reinforced by MH too - he couldn't believe the ferocity of what came at them - they'd never experienced it in all the league encounters they'd played. Ultimate compliment being that they're the best team he's ever faced in his 14 years

Drumpot

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I didn't read that at all. I think he was genuinely complimentary about what happened. Most of the lads I was out with on Sunday were too.

Even the KOTF/Yerras have been effusive in their praise. It's weird.

I got that impression from his RTE interview that he was just praising Dublin with no hidden dig or insinuation...

From a Dublin perspective it does still feel like we don't know where they are at and that they may be vulnerable (if we are trying to play devils advicate) to the fact that Mayo have had the kind of challanges in the championship that Dublin have had to work on in training.

I know we can argue that the AvB of Dublin is prob as tough a game as Dublin could get, but there's just no substitute for championship football.

If both teams show up for the final, I think Dublin will win well. In that regards I don't think Dublin need worry about Mayo as much as they need get their own fitness and tactics right. I think mayo need way more to go for them on the day for Dublin to be beaten. If Dublin play like last years final they will lose, but I get the impression they are up for this and look as hungry and ready as they have ever looked. If Mayo do somehow win, I take my hat off to them because I think this is the strongest looking Dublin panel in the best looking shape we have seen this last 7 years coming into September.

Oh and the fact that there is no uproar about Connolly not getting much of a run is testament to the strength of the squad. I mean think of the most talented player on any team over the last 30 years being left out in this manner and then possibly not even making the team for the final! It's unreal!

corny

Drumpot wrote: »

Oh and the fact that there is no uproar about Connolly not getting much of a run is testament to the strength of the squad. I mean think of the most talented player on any team over the last 30 years being left out in this manner and then possibly not even making the team for the final! It's unreal!

I don't think Gavin gets enough credit (none that i've read) for this. It was obvious after last years final that we lacked a bit verve in the team. Too many lads were approaching 30 and younger legs needed to be brought in. Thats ok as an ideal last year but imagine you're Jim Gavin before Sundays match. You recognise Lowndes isn't a half forward and you need to bring someone in. Imagine how easy it be to fall back on a four time All Star or the most talented footballer in the country? Both legends and proven winners. Instead you throw Niall Scully in. The vast majority of managers opt for the proven entity in far less obvious calls. With this one everyone would go with Flynn or Connolly.

He's done it before with McCaffrey and KK in 2013, Fenton, Davey Byrne etc. Some might argue Dublin have the footballers to do it but i think its more than that. Its the confidence he gives young lads by placing the trust in them. Scully must have felt 10 feet tall watching Connolly and Flynn trudge over to the bench last Sunday. COC likewise.

Bonniedog

If me oul sequioca Ibrahim beats the rap - and him being a Rare Oul Dub who went on a coddle/batter burger/stout strike when Davis were bate in the junior championship two years ago, is released surely he should be in with a shout for a start?

Unless we are a racist society of course :-)

Stoner

corny wrote:

He's done it before with McCaffrey and KK in 2013, Fenton, Davey Byrne etc. Some might argue Dublin have the footballers to do it but i think its more than that. Its the confidence he gives young lads by placing the trust in them. Scully must have felt 10 feet tall watching Connolly and Flynn trudge over to the bench last Sunday. COC likewise.

I agree with you , Pat had blooded KK though, he got three Mayo in 2012.

The work on bringing in young players has been great.

His use of the O'Byrne cup, I think I witnessed O'callaghans first run for the Dubs against Wexford durning the floods a couple of years ago. He was subbed on and off, he asked him if he enjoyed that, the young lad just said "yeah"

Now he's doing the biz in a semifinal.
Note there's a new back up keeper now too nobody even noticed as you said.
Lowdnes, O'Callaghan, Scully, McCaffery, McHugh, Costello, Kilkenny, Howard, Fenton are all young players

Dyr

Bonniedog wrote: »

If me oul sequioca Ibrahim beats the rap - and him being a Rare Oul Dub who went on a coddle/batter burger/stout strike when Davis were bate in the junior championship two years ago, is released surely he should be in with a shout for a start?

Unless we are a racist society of course :-)

Next to Dermo, its the greatest injustice ever committed on a dub

Although I heard his oul fella took him out of the local team when he heard they were shiite, that's a no-no with the Halawas

blanch152

Stoner wrote: »

I agree with you , Pat had blooded KK though, he got three Mayo in 2012.

The work on bringing in young players has been great.

His use of the O'Byrne cup, I think I witnessed O'callaghans first run for the Dubs against Wexford durning the floods a couple of years ago. He was subbed on and off, he asked him if he enjoyed that, the young lad just said "yeah"

Now he's doing the biz in a semifinal.
Note there's a new back up keeper now too nobody even noticed as you said.
Lowdnes, O'Callaghan, Scully, McCaffery, McHugh, Costello, Kilkenny, Howard, Fenton are all young players

Great post. In four years time you could have the following team:

Comerford, Byrne, Cooper, Lowndes, Scully, Small, McCaffrey, Fenton, Carthy, Kilkenny, O'Callaghan, Howard, Mannion, Costello, McHugh.

Of those, only Cooper would be over 30, the rest would be in their prime. And there are a few not mentioned.

Bonniedog

Girls who you can see their face and wearing shorts, and allowed play sports and go to university.

Can't be having that now.

Up the dubs. Up the Halawas. Up the 13th century :-)

ProudDUB

Stoner wrote: »

I agree with you , Pat had blooded KK though, he got three Mayo in 2012.

The work on bringing in young players has been great.

His use of the O'Byrne cup, I think I witnessed O'callaghans first run for the Dubs against Wexford durning the floods a couple of years ago. He was subbed on and off, he asked him if he enjoyed that, the young lad just said "yeah"

Now he's doing the biz in a semifinal.
Note there's a new back up keeper now too nobody even noticed as you said.
Lowdnes, O'Callaghan, Scully, McCaffery, McHugh, Costello, Kilkenny, Howard, Fenton are all young players

Oh, I remember that exact same moment too. We both musta been standing right beside Jim Gavin, as we navigated the swamp in Enniscorthy. Great minds....

Sometimes I think that Jim Gavin's greatest wish is to hand the Dublin team over to his successor in even better nick than he found it. He has done a great job of not just blooding the upcoming crops of U21 players, but also of finding new players out of seemingly nowhere (like Fenton) as well as injecting new life into the intercounty careers of players that Gilroy just didn't fancy, such as Paddy Andrews and Dean Rock. But for all his bravery in giving relatively untried lads a go, he did inheirit the guts of an All Ireland winning team from Pat Gilroy. He put his own stamp on it in 2013, but it was still Pat Gilroys team, to all intents and purposes.

I can see Jim Gavin wanting his legacy to be All Irelands won with squads that are still very successful, long after he has departed the scene. He'll be totally ok with not being the manager when they are winning all their All Irelands, as he knows that he was the one to start them out on their inter county career. He won't want to go down in the history books as another Micko, who took his eye off the long term health of Kerry football, while he remained overly committed to a small squad of players. There will be no 11 year Famine after Jim Gavin departs the scene imo.

Stoner

ProudDUB wrote:

Oh, I remember that exact same moment too. We both musta been standing right beside Jim Gavin, as we navigated the swamp in Enniscorthy. Great minds....

That's mad.
It was the dryest spot there in all fairness

gormdubhgorm

corny wrote: »

He's done it before with McCaffrey and KK in 2013, Fenton, Davey Byrne etc. Some might argue Dublin have the footballers to do it but i think its more than that. Its the confidence he gives young lads by placing the trust in them. Scully must have felt 10 feet tall watching Connolly and Flynn trudge over to the bench last Sunday. COC likewise.

Was it Mossy Quinn that argued that not starting Connolly especially would mean the other players would tighten up and be nervous?
Worried that a mistake would mean thier day was over etc ?

Stoner

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Was it Mossy Quinn that argued that not starting Connolly especially would mean the other players would tighten up and be nervous? Worried that a mistake would mean thier day was over etc ?

I heard a few people saying that. Wouldn't bother with it, Brogan, O'Gara, Flynn and McManaman sitting there would have a similar impact.

Stoner

Drumpot wrote:

I got that impression from his RTE interview that he was just praising Dublin with no hidden dig or insinuation...

In thought it glossed over Tyrones lack of a plan B and justified them not changing things up at halftime, let's face it Tyrone did very little different in the second half, regardless of what the boys said that couldn't have been the correct choice.