Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

Bonniedog

I wonder will Harte call it a day now?

Not sure what the terms of his contract are but the knives were out for him up until last year, and may re-emerge.

He has had some career in fairness. 11 county Ulster titles between underage and senior; 3 senior AIs, 2 under 21s and one minor. As well as that he managed Ballygawley Ciarans to an Ulster club.

True to say that Dublin and Tyrone have had a fraught relationship. Was in Omagh for the famous "battle", but it was local steward who stopped people shaking our car and got us onto the road out, Also recall the queues of people who lined up to give their commiserations and Mass cards to him after the 2011 quarter final. And of course the tribute to SC from the players on Sunday. .

This is not meant as an obituary by the way Jayop!

Drumpot

Stoner wrote: »

In thought it glossed over Tyrones lack of a plan B and justified them not changing things up at halftime, let's face it Tyrone did very little different in the second half, regardless of what the boys said that couldn't have been the correct choice.

I dont have a problem with this at all and think most of us would do the same. Given what Harte has given to Tyrone I would like to think I wouldn't add fuel to the flames if he was under pressure and he had managed me to the kind of success's , especially given some of the crap Cavanagh had to endure by some media/pundits over the years.

I don't think its a players job or place to really comment on management publically and I cant see any benefit to a team if they do. Leave that to Cork people. Most top teams regroup after a defeat and work together towards the next season, sorting out problems in house.

The Cavanagh interviews should rightly be celebrating his achievements, not hammering on about the drubbing.

Squatman

Bambi wrote: »

Noticed Sean Cavanagh expressing amazement at how strong Dublin were. According to him Tyrone left no stone unturned in their conditioning this year. That's a good side given Tyrone's physicality.

Maybe its the years of Kerry yarra talk making me cranky, but I was suspecting that he was implying that Dublin are fully pro the way he was going on about it.

Thats what i took out of it too. He was never gracious in defeat. I think it was 2013 when beaten by mayo he said he doesnt mind losing, but hates losing to a bad team. <MOD Snip>

Drumpot

Squatman wrote: »

Thats what i took out of it too. He was never gracious in defeat. I think it was 2013 when beaten by mayo he said he doesnt mind losing, but hates losing to a bad team. <MOD Snip>

There are a lot of bitter fans out there towards Dublin, I think we need to be careful not to be paranoid that everybody is taking pop shots at us.

The bottom line is that we do have vastly more resources and a wider player pool to choose from. That didn't amount to much of an advantage between 1984 and 2008 and most people who understand the game know its more important as to what you do with the resources you have (like Kerry and Killkenny).

But I thought Cavanagh couldn't of been more complimentary of the Dublin team if he tried. Greatest team of all time? Seriously guys, you need to relax.

Dyr

In more important matters, I see Anthony Daly has stepped down from his Job with Limerick. Wonder is he planning on spending more time in Clare or having a bit of a commute again..

Bonniedog

Bambi wrote: »

In more important matters, I see Anthony Daly has stepped down from his Job with Limerick. Wonder is he planning on spending more time in Clare or having a bit of a commute again..

Mmmmm. Interesting. Is Clare job up for grabs?

There was speculation that given the success of his time as Director of hurling with likely AI under 21 on way, that he'd have been in line for Kiely's job.

He is still obviously emotionally attached to Dublin hurling but not sure it would be good idea going back. It would possibly mean some chaps staying on past their time, and he might not take as much a chance on bringing in younger players.

Dyr

I dunno what the situation is with Clare or Limerick, we tend to forget that Daly had as many bad years as good with us and they always say don't ever return to a job.

BUT the hurling ship needs to be steadied and everyone hauled back on board and Daly might be a good choice for that.

danganabu

Bonniedog wrote: »

I wonder will Harte call it a day now?

Not sure what the terms of his contract are but the knives were out for him up until last year, and may re-emerge.

Read an article somewhere yesterday, think it might have been on Journal.ie or one of those where he was quite bullish about being there next year but did admit that it was out of his hands.

Stationmaster

Lads I have 2 decent Cusack Stand tickets for the football final to swap for 2 box or premium seats for hurling final if anyone is interested. Send me a PM. Sound.

Stationmaster

Bonniedog wrote: »

Mmmmm. Interesting. Is Clare job up for grabs?

There was speculation that given the success of his time as Director of hurling with likely AI under 21 on way, that he'd have been in line for Kiely's job.

He is still obviously emotionally attached to Dublin hurling but not sure it would be good idea going back. It would possibly mean some chaps staying on past their time, and he might not take as much a chance on bringing in younger players.

Clare job not up for grabs. He's all yeres if ye want him!

Stoner

Couple of things to throw out there, some done already, some new.

I think the two defining things that contributed to the performance on Sunday were losing the league and Connelly sitting out the Championship.

On the first point the team were barely back training for the league with many players on different return to training deals with the management team.

This rest and lack of activity seems to have served the team well. The record of unbeaten games and stringing all the leagues together, dropping that was great. I think the team went out to win the league but were not that bothered to lose it at the same time. It also built Kerry up a bit and maybe they were too focused on it although many of the cute Kerry lads didn't read too much into it. But Mayo and Dublin flapped through the league this year, or at least used it in a different way to kerry

However it took some of the focus off the team and let them know that they were beatable at the same time. It was a good thing IMO, but many of us saw that at the time.

However I didn't see all the advantages of the Connelly saga. Imo it's
helped Mannion greatly
Got the annual Connelly event out of the way early
Helped develop O'Callaghan
Helped Kilkenny develop too, he's a leader of the team now imo, can't see him handing a sideline ball over again (going against his gut)
Shown how well the half-forward line moves to Connelly, without him taking too much out of the ball
Possibly we'll get an improved Connelly out of all this too?
It's been great for the development of the team

It's been very positive we've heard people say it before but it's good to list them down at the same time.

Drumpot

Interesting question might be whether or not the team is better with or without Connolly. Seems like a ridiculous question for me to even ask because His individual talent is not in question, but would the team perform better as a Unit without him (and the baggage that comes with him on the park).

I suppose a big part of that will be tactics. Having such a defensive lineup against Tyrone possibly made it easier to not include Connolly. But how will Dublin Lineup against Mayo ?!

Also, I hope the Dublin team are not as confident as I am towards the final. I just cant see any real strong argument that Mayo will win, outside of Dublin underperforming and it doesn't sit well with me! I feel like we might be ambushed if they have my mindset!

seligehgit

Drumpot wrote: »

Interesting question might be whether or not the team is better with or without Connolly. Seems like a ridiculous question for me to even ask because His individual talent is not in question, but would the team perform better as a Unit without him (and the baggage that comes with him on the park).

I suppose a big part of that will be tactics. Having such a defensive lineup against Tyrone possibly made it easier to not include Connolly. But how will Dublin Lineup against Mayo ?!

Also, I hope the Dublin team are not as confident as I am towards the final. I just cant see any real strong argument that Mayo will win, outside of Dublin underperforming and it doesn't sit well with me! I feel like we might be ambushed if they have my mindset!

IMO can't see how it's up for discussion,he got a run out of a couple of minutes the last day.Otherwise has played no championship football since Carlow.Dublin in reality have hardly missed him.

I'd be shocked to see him start irrespective of his undoubted talents,the torch has passed to the next generation,O Callaghan is a prime example.

ProudDUB

Hmmmm...the Connolly thing. For me, some of the points to ponder are:

- Is Keegan fit enough to do his normal man marking job on Connolly? That cellulitis can be a hoor.

- If Connolly doesn't start, who will Keegan mark instead? If it's Con, let's hold off on crowning him the new crown prince, until we see how he gets on with a man marker of the calibre of Big Bad Leeroy Brown, crawling up his back passage for 80 odd minutes.

- Connolly doesn't have a great track record of setting the world on fire, when he has been away for a while. We see that when he returns towards the end of the league, after being away on club duty with Vinnie until Feb/March. He needs intercounty game time, to get up to intercounty speed again. All the talent or training in the world, can't replace actual game time.

- Where is his head at & what will it take, for him to do something boneheaded again?

- What message does it send to the rest of the squad, if he is just handed the starting jersey again? Will they care one jot, if he makes a meaningful contribution that results in them racking up All Ireland medal #5? Probably not. (Nor will I, for that matter.) But it just doesn't sit right with me for some reason.

Stoner

ProudDUB wrote:

- If Connolly doesn't start, who will Keegan mark instead? If it's Con, let's hold off on crowning him the new crown prince, until we see how he gets on with a man marker of the calibre of Big Bad Leeroy Brown, crawling up his back passage for 80 odd minutes.

I think Mayo have more suitable players to mark Con than Keegan.
It possible it would suit Con just like Rory O'Carroll wasn't good against nippy forwards or Cooper is best when he can get out in front of his man
As discussed here before Connelly can play well without scoring. Holding him scoreless is not key to stopping Dublin. The time Connelly spends on the ball suits a Keegan type defender,

I agree that Mannion is someone that Mayo might put Keegan on. John Small might pick up his runs.

From my perspective I'd much rather Mannion tracking Keegan on a run than Connelly.

CatInABox

ProudDUB wrote: »

What message does it send to the rest of the squad, if he is just handed the starting jersey again? Will they care one jot, if he makes a meaningful contribution that results in them racking up All Ireland medal #5? Probably not. (Nor will I, for that matter.) But it just doesn't sit right with me for some reason.

Not sure on this one, the Dublin team under Gavin seems to be a meritocracy based on how you're going in training rather than on matches played. The replay of the final last year springs to mind on this, with Michael Fitzsimons coming from nowhere to start.

gormdubhgorm

Am I the only one who is very confident going into this game?
I just can't see Dublin loosing barring a miracle by Mayo.
I feel that all the pressure is on Mayo and the nearer they get to the winning line the more chance they have of freezing?

What tactics does Rochford have to offer bar moving A. O'Shea around and alternating keeper?
I just can't help feeling that Mayo's AI was the Kerry replay.

Jim Gavin has so many different options to try now if things are not going well in the game.
Not only that they have more composure about them that I have not seen in any GAA team before

Stoner

CatInABox wrote:

Not sure on this one, the Dublin team under Gavin seems to be a meritocracy based on how you're going in training rather than on matches played. The replay of the final last year springs to mind on this, with Michael Fitzsimons coming from nowhere to start.

But David Byrne had a poor day in the original game, I just watched it again. He was at fault for a couple of the plays to bring Mayo back into it.

Fitzsimmons came on early enough for MDMA and Byrne was subbed later on.
I don't think he's started a game since

Donal55

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Am I the only one who is very confident going into this game?
I just can't see Dublin loosing barring a miracle by Mayo.
I feel that all the pressure is on Mayo and the nearer they get to the winning line the more chance they have of freezing?

What tactics does Rochford have to offer bar moving A. O'Shea around and alternating keeper?
I just can't help feeling that Mayo's AI was the Kerry replay.

Jim Gavin has so many different options to try now if things are not going well in the game.
Not only that they have more composure about them that I have not seen in any GAA team before

He could try Cora Staunton at full forward!

Stoner

Not very confident, I think we've a very good chance, Mayo will give it everything.

Interestingly, Boyle was subbed early last year too.
He's inspirational for them but it seems he's nothing left in the tank for the last 10 minutes plus extra time.

There will be no playing it around the D with them.

I'm very happy with cian O'Sullivan's form apart from Costello we've a full deck of cards

Hopefully the poor form from the first game last year will be remembered and we won't go back there.

Stoner

seligehgit wrote:

I'd be shocked to see him start irrespective of his undoubted talents,the torch has passed to the next generation,O Callaghan is a prime example.

O'Callaghan won't win primary ball like Connelly does, haven't seen him pass like him either just rewatched the first game last year,

The pass into Rock before the second OG, apart from Connelly, only maybe Flynn or maybe Fenton would play that.

seligehgit

Stoner wrote: »

O'Callaghan won't win primary ball like Connelly does, haven't seen him pass like him either just rewatched the first game last year,

The pass into Rock before the second OG, apart from Connelly, only maybe Flynn or maybe Fenton would play that.

Yes Connolly can produce moments of brilliance like that and he nailed a great score off an errant Clarke kickout near the end.But he took the wrong option off the sideline ball when the game was there to be killed off.

O Callaghan offers a different skillset,he is very direct and pacy offering a huge threat from play.He will undoubtedly develop his game as he matures and become a primary ball winner and deliver those killer passes.

Connolly has seen very little football and it would be very harsh on the extreme on the other players if he was drafted into the team for the final.

I know who I'd prefer to see Dublin play and it's not O Callaghan.

corny

Stoner wrote: »

Not very confident, I think we've a very good chance, Mayo will give it everything.

Interestingly, Boyle was subbed early last year too.
He's inspirational for them but it seems he's nothing left in the tank for the last 10 minutes plus extra time.

There will be no playing it around the D with them.

I'm very happy with cian O'Sullivan's firm apart from Costello we've a full deck of cards

Hopefully the poor form from the first game last year will be remembered and we won't go back there.

Wasn't he booked, then got involved with Small before being subbed? I think they were afraid he was heading for a red rather thinking he was running on empty.

I've a theory with Colm Boyle anyway. I don't think he recovers as well as the rest and thats why he has been subbed all year. Week to week games aren't his thing.

Despite them facing a few squeaky bum moments i think they've known all year they have the measure of everyone bar Dublin. The building to a crescendo was the plan and subbing Boyle was keeping him form burning out too early in the season. I'd say he'll have no problem going the 70 if thats what they want.

Also, I like that the young lads are playing but i'm not too happy with the 'we don't need Connolly' chorus that seems to be getting louder! We really might need him and its easy to forget himself and Flynn are proven entities against these fellas. We all hope Scully and Con hit the ground running but there's a chance they're completely knocked off it by the intensity of the game. Tyrone were great and all but it'll be orders of magnitude more intense with Mayo. Always is.

Are Am Eye

We could try and get out early before them and warm up in front of the Hill. That might rattle them.

Donal55

Connolly to come on in the 50th minute regardless of whether we're in front or behind would suit me.
Another spanner in the works for Mayo to deal with.

Saying that, quite happy with whatever team Gavin puts out now. Actually think his call of pulling Lowndes out and Scully in was master stroke against Tyrone. At this stage now I've full faith in Dublin mgt and believe the team players themselves are better than last year.

Very optimistic.

yobr

I think Flynn made his case in the Tyrone match with 3 points from play. I think Gavin will stick close enough to or the same as the 15 that started against Tyrone. I don't think he'll start Connolly and I think Flynn is now the preferred option as a 1st sub (if I can use that phrase).

Stoner

corny wrote:

Also, I like that the young lads are playing but i'm not too happy with the 'we don't need Connolly' chorus that seems to be getting louder! We really might need him and its easy to forget himself and Flynn are proven entities against these fellas. We all hope Scully and Con hit the ground running but there's a chance they're completely knocked off it by the intensity of the game. Tyrone were great and all but it'll be orders of magnitude more intense with Mayo. Always is.

I certainly don't think Connelly is not needed. Particularly in this type of game. Apart from grabbing the ball off Kilkenny he was good in the last period of the first game the last day too

I agree with the other posters that Flynn's three points were great to see. Scully has yet to bring his underage scoring game to the seniors. So Flynn will be knocking at the door.

Slattsy

Where will I find a replay of last year's matches?

CatInABox

Slattsy wrote: »

Where will I find a replay of last year's matches?

Youtube will have most of them at this stage, you looking for one in particular?

gormdubhgorm

Slattsy wrote: »

Where will I find a replay of last year's matches?

Dublin v Mayo AI final 2016

Dublin v Mayo Replay AI final 2016