Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - Capital Punishment

corny

Watch them back on mute. To say the commentary was biased would be an understatement.

Stoner

corny wrote:

Watch them back on mute. To say the commentary was biased would be an understatement.

Martin Carney is unbelievable.

In the first game you can hear him gasp at around 30 minutes when a Mayo turnover is immediately reversed, the air is sucked out of him.

He called Clarkes foul on Rock 50 50. Until the replay showed otherwise.

He calls for black cards for Dublin players regularly while ignoring similar from Mayo.

At around 50 minutes small is cleaned out and it's completely ignored.

At the Tyrone game he went on twice about a late shoulder from for Scully not being yellow but black.

He called for black cards for stopping a run late in the game but the ref had blown play up, there was no run to stop.

When Colm Cavanagh stuck his studs in Fenton he said it was a bit late and deserved a Yellow. At half time it was called cowardly, dangerous and a definite red.
He corrected himself after he heard the other lads say it.

His best was in the replay I think it was it was Cooper or McMahon , he said there's a Mayo player down , one can only assume he's been struck in the head off the ball. Then it's replayed it was nothing like that and he says nothing.

I'm pretty sick of him to be honest with his "no malice" in Boyles tackles, or lack of comment on the late challenge on Cooper after Mayos goal, or banging on about the John Small foot trip he got away with but keeping quiet on Mcloughlans drag down on the Dublin corner forward (possibly Andrews) moments afterwards.

These guys are half the reason some think some teams are angels.

I'd really love to see what he'd say if a Dublin player stuck his studs in on a Mayo player the way Fenton was tackled, "a bit late" as if it would be fine to foot block in GAA if it was a bit earlier in the move and he got his leg rather than his stomach.


He's no use IMO.

Regardless he's brutal he just comments on what's just happened as if its foresight.

In the Tyrone game he initially spoke about Tyrone using the full width of the pitch to spread Dublin out.

If he'd listened to any number of podcasts he'd have heard that the Dublin forwards were going to do that to Tyrone and push up on their counter attack play.

Again he listened to the half time analysis and reproduces their points , including Brolly saying Dublin used the full width of the pitch and pushed up on the Tyrone counter attacks.

He very poor at reading a game, my opinions on him not liking Dublin aside.

PARlance

There's no malice in him Stoner.

corny

Carney i can kind of forgive. He's brutal and all but we'd all find it tough to be impartial in games like that. The other fella though....he wanted Mayo to win just as much. The langer.:D

Squatman

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Am I the only one who is very confident going into this game?
I just can't see Dublin loosing barring a miracle by Mayo.
I feel that all the pressure is on Mayo and the nearer they get to the winning line the more chance they have of freezing?

What tactics does Rochford have to offer bar moving A. O'Shea around and alternating keeper?
I just can't help feeling that Mayo's AI was the Kerry replay.

Jim Gavin has so many different options to try now if things are not going well in the game.
Not only that they have more composure about them that I have not seen in any GAA team before

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

CatInABox

Squatman wrote: »

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

Oh, I don't know. A lot of people think that this might be some of the Mayo players last hurrah, and that the next few years will be rebuilding years. There has to be some pressure on the Mayo team over that.

There's also the fact that having won two in a row, Dublin could lose this one and not be overly bothered by it, whereas if Mayo lose, it's feeding into the narrative that they'll always be the bridesmaid, and will probably cost Rochford his job.

blanch152

Squatman wrote: »

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

What will you do when Dublin bring on their sixth sub?

ThunbergsAreGo

Squatman wrote: »

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

What makes Mayo a better team this year? Heard this mentioned a few times but don't get the logic

Drawing with Cork Roscommon or Derry? Team of last year were arguably more impressive in qualifiers

Squatman

naughtb4 wrote: »

What makes Mayo a better team this year? Heard this mentioned a few times but don't get the logic

Drawing with Cork Roscommon or Derry? Team of last year were arguably more impressive in qualifiers

beating Kerry for the first time in 21 years. they have have a training match a week for 6 or 7 weeks. Invaluable game time. Scoreing more from play. More scoring forwards. Subs that come in and strengthen the team rather than weaken it. Much more confident goalkeeper kickouts. 21/22 kickouts vs kerry went to a mayo player. A revived Aiden o Shea. Kevin mcloughlan in hte form of his life, as is andy moran, lee keegan, jason doherty Tom parsons. we have a vastly superior team to the one from last year (dubs may be too), with way more game time, and as tomás o sé said "MAyo are ravenous"

danganabu

Squatman wrote: »

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

Mayo gout tough tests because they made then tough, Dublin would have brushed aside all those opponents with the same ease they did in their own games.

PARlance

naughtb4 wrote: »

What makes Mayo a better team this year? Heard this mentioned a few times but don't get the logic

Drawing with Cork Roscommon or Derry? Team of last year were arguably more impressive in qualifiers

I wouldn't say last years team was more impressive. It could have very easily been over for us against Fermanagh.

What is different for me is that the good football is better than the good football last year. And that mistakes have been worked on....last year was very much a tale of trying to introduce a sweeper system. It eventually clicked but it was a nervous wait. This years tale seems to be ironing out mistakes rather than anything drastic.

We dominated Derry but our kicking was atrocious. Haven't seen that again.
We had Cork nearly beaten early in the second half but emptied the bench en masse way too early. Some of their quality players almost made us pay for that.
Rosscommon first game was just a tough Championship game, their All Ireland and we were a little flat.

We hadn't seen the types of performance levels of Roscommon replay and Kerry times two last year. There's also a stronger squad and we're getting more out of certain players.

The only issue for me is that Dublin seem to have improved too.

CatInABox

PARlance wrote: »

I wouldn't say last years team was more impressive. It could have very easily been over for us against Fermanagh.

What is different for me is that the good football is better than the good football last year. And that mistakes have been worked on....last year was very much a tale of trying to introduce a sweeper system. It eventually clicked but it was a nervous wait. This years tale seems to be ironing out mistakes rather than anything drastic.

We dominated Derry but our kicking was atrocious. Haven't seen that again.
We had Cork nearly beaten early in the second half but emptied the bench en masse way too early. Some of their quality players almost made us pay for that.
Rosscommon first game was just a tough Championship game, their All Ireland and we were a little flat.

We hadn't seen the types of performance levels of Roscommon replay and Kerry times two last year. There's also a stronger squad and we're getting more out of certain players.

The only issue for me is that Dublin seem to have improved too.

Impressive as the result was, I didn't take too much from the second Roscommon game, I thought that MAyo had recovered from the first day, and Roscommon just couldn't keep pace with any of the Mayo players. Granted, the tactics were better as well, but I thought that 80% of that scoreline was down to vastly superior fitness and the resultant faster recovery time.

Gael85

Stoner wrote: »

Martin Carney is unbelievable.

In the first game you can hear him gasp at around 30 minutes when a Mayo turnover is immediately reversed, the air is sucked out of him.

He called Clarkes foul on Rock 50 50. Until the replay showed otherwise.

He calls for black cards for Dublin players regularly while ignoring similar from Mayo.

At around 50 minutes small is cleaned out and it's completely ignored.

At the Tyrone game he went on twice about a late shoulder from for Scully not being yellow but black.

He called for black cards for stopping a run late in the game but the ref had blown play up, there was no run to stop.

When Colm Cavanagh stuck his studs in Fenton he said it was a bit late and deserved a Yellow. At half time it was called cowardly, dangerous and a definite red.
He corrected himself after he heard the other lads say it.

His best was in the replay I think it was it was Cooper or McMahon , he said there's a Mayo player down , one can only assume he's been struck in the head off the ball. Then it's replayed it was nothing like that and he says nothing.

I'm pretty sick of him to be honest with his "no malice" in Boyles tackles, or lack of comment on the late challenge on Cooper after Mayos goal, or banging on about the John Small foot trip he got away with but keeping quiet on Mcloughlans drag down on the Dublin corner forward (possibly Andrews) moments afterwards.

These guys are half the reason some think some teams are angels.

I'd really love to see what he'd say if a Dublin player stuck his studs in on a Mayo player the way Fenton was tackled, "a bit late" as if it would be fine to foot block in GAA if it was a bit earlier in the move and he got his leg rather than his stomach.


He's no use IMO.

Regardless he's brutal he just comments on what's just happened as if its foresight.

In the Tyrone game he initially spoke about Tyrone using the full width of the pitch to spread Dublin out.

If he'd listened to any number of podcasts he'd have heard that the Dublin forwards were going to do that to Tyrone and push up on their counter attack play.

Again he listened to the half time analysis and reproduces their points , including Brolly saying Dublin used the full width of the pitch and pushed up on the Tyrone counter attacks.

He very poor at reading a game, my opinions on him not liking Dublin aside.

It took him until second half to recognise James McCarthy was playing midfield in Meath game . Hopefully will be neutral co-commentator for final.

Bonniedog

I don't think previous games will make a difference when it comes to the final.

However, had Dublin been held to draws and extra time by Westmeath or Kildare or Monaghan or even Tyrone then the narrative would certainly not be "oh this will benefit the Dubs." !

Fact is that Mayo came close to going out against three teams that Dublin would have had dead and buried within 20 minutes.

PARlance

CatInABox wrote: »

Impressive as the result was, I didn't take too much from the second Roscommon game, I thought that MAyo had recovered from the first day, and Roscommon just couldn't keep pace with any of the Mayo players. Granted, the tactics were better as well, but I thought that 80% of that scoreline was down to vastly superior fitness and the resultant faster recovery time.

Fitness and recovery a factor but you don't score 4-19 (or 80% of it) on fitness alone. Mayo brought an intensity to take game that only Dublin match and we scored freely.

Same with the Kerry replay, against better opposition it was only a 5 point win vs 22. We probably should have beaten both by more.

I think if Dublin put in those performaces, they would get more credit than just being extremely fit. But anyway, it might suit us.

ArielAtom

Squatman wrote: »

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Am I the only one who is very confident going into this game?
I just can't see Dublin loosing barring a miracle by Mayo.
I feel that all the pressure is on Mayo and the nearer they get to the winning line the more chance they have of freezing?

What tactics does Rochford have to offer bar moving A. O'Shea around and alternating keeper?
I just can't help feeling that Mayo's AI was the Kerry replay.

Jim Gavin has so many different options to try now if things are not going well in the game.
Not only that they have more composure about them that I have not seen in any GAA team before

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

Not sure about that, a lot of people saying  Mayo have been tested and have shown progression all season, whilst highlighting that Dublin are coming in untested. The argument has also been put out there that Dublin under perform in finals. Reading some posts it makes Mayo favourite's as all the pressure is on Dublin to achieve three in a row. There are different ways both's preparation can be evaluated.

PARlance

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't think previous games will make a difference when it comes to the final.

However, had Dublin been held to draws and extra time by Westmeath or Kildare or Monaghan or even Tyrone then the narrative would certainly not be "oh this will benefit the Dubs." !

Fact is that Mayo came close to going out against three teams that Dublin would have had dead and buried within 20 minutes.

Like you had the mighty Carlow dead and buried after 20 mins?

I won't deny that Mayo have been working through things that needed improving but you put Mayo or Dublin in Croke Park against weaker teams and it gets harder for those teams to stay with them.

Ironically, there is a bit of a narrative that Dublin being held close and drawing games over the league has brought them on this Championship.

Bonniedog

ArielAtom wrote: »

Dublin under perform in finals......

Since 2011 they've won seven Leinster finals, four league finals and four All Ireland finals. Oh, and two O'Byrne Cup finals.

That's 17 finals in seven years. Clearly finals give the Dubs the jitters

CatInABox

PARlance wrote: »

Fitness and recovery a factor but you don't score 4-19 (or 80% of it) on fitness alone. Mayo brought an intensity to take game that only Dublin match and we scored freely.

Same with the Kerry replay, against better opposition it was only a 5 point win vs 22. We probably should have beaten both by more.

I think if Dublin put in those performaces, they would get more credit than just being extremely fit. But anyway, it might suit us.

I thought that the Roscommon lads were dead on their feet from the first minute, so I'd easily say that resulted in a lot of scores. Intensity can only be brought with fitness, the Roscommon guys might have wanted to bring intensity, but had to settle for intensely running after your players!

Thought Mayo did very well both days against Kerry both days, was kinda astonished that you didn't win outright the first day. The second day was hilarious, it was the most comfortable 5 point win I've seen in ages.

I don't think that Gavin or Rochford will be too concerned with the preformances (of either team) so far, both managers know how to get the best from their players when it counts, and both sets of players give it all as well, so it should be a cracker of a match.

ThunbergsAreGo

PARlance wrote: »

Like you had the mighty Carlow dead and buried after 20 mins?

I won't deny that Mayo have been working through things that needed improving but you put Mayo or Dublin in Croke Park against weaker teams and it gets harder for those teams to stay with them.

Ironically, there is a bit of a narrative that Dublin being held close and drawing games over the league has brought them on this Championship.

Carlow were dead and buried after 20 minutes, there was no way they were winning that match

Dyr

naughtb4 wrote: »

What makes Mayo a better team this year? Heard this mentioned a few times but don't get the logic

Drawing with Cork Roscommon or Derry? Team of last year were arguably more impressive in qualifiers

Apparently not being able to beat poor opposition is actually a positive thing as its "good test" and will "stand to them"

Yeah I don't get the logic either.

corny

Squatman wrote: »

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

I wouldn't put anyone off fancying Mayo but these reasons aren't convincing at all.

1. Pressure doesn't come into it with either side. Both are almost professional in how they approach big games. You have ample evidence to demonstrate this.

2. Assuming Dublin go with the same team their subs will include Paul Flynn, MDM, Lowndes, Connolly, Brogan. On paper they have the greater scope to change the game without question.

3. The form between Dublin and Mayo is well established. Previous form should trump the tested V not tested, better this year V worse last year lark all day.

gormdubhgorm

Squatman wrote: »

nobody is expecting mayo to win. Expectation is on a dublin 3 in a row. Pressure is firmly on Dublin.
As per options, dublin have 5 changes to make if things turn bad. Similarly Mayo have 5. Dublin might have the makings of 2 or 3 great teams, but they can only use 20 people. Remember it took dublin 2 games last year to beat mayo by a point. and mayo are a better team this year. Mayo got 9 tough tests this year. Dublin have yet to get theirs.

Do you really think that all the pressure is on Dublin?
I think the pressure is on Mayo how many chances do they need to an AI?
Also Dublin's subs are far more likely to turn a game then Mayo's.
In fact a Dublin sub might make thier team stronger where required.
Whereas Mayo's subs are going to be weaker then thier starting 15.

Also reagarding last years games. That was Dublin playing below par in two games and still winning! As Kerry would say it was a 'soft all-ireland'

Even if Mayo do get close to winning this time (which I doubt) they will fold the nerves will kick in and they will make basic errors.

Dublin will just play the game like they will play any other have a gameplan set up to counteract Mayo's predicable strengths.

Where does Rochford start?
If you were Mayo manager what could try and do? Start a row and hope a few Dublin fellas get sent off?

Shurimgreat

corny wrote: »

I wouldn't put anyone off fancying Mayo but these reasons aren't convincing at all.

1. Pressure doesn't come into it with either side. Both are almost professional in how they approach big games. You have ample evidence to demonstrate this.

2. Assuming Dublin go with the same team their subs will include Paul Flynn, MDM, Lowndes, Connolly, Brogan. On paper they have the greater scope to change the game without question.

3. The form between Dublin and Mayo is well established. Previous form should trump the tested V not tested, better this year V worse last year lark all day.

This is the main reason why Dublin will win. Mayo have one or two good players to come off the bench. Actually probably only Durkan if he starts on the bench would be considered top class at this stage. Dublin have 5 or 6 top class players who have won AIs, All Stars, Leagues, the works. McManamon will also likely start on the bench. Its scary what Dublin can call on. At best Mayo can hope for a draw the first day but that's a best case scenario. If it goes to a replay it will probably play out similar to last year.

Dublin's bench will win this AI imo.

blanch152

Shurimgreat wrote: »

This is the main reason why Dublin will win. Mayo have one or two good players to come off the bench. Actually probably only Durkan if he starts on the bench would be considered top class at this stage. Dublin have 5 or 6 top class players who have won AIs, All Stars, Leagues, the works. McManamon will also likely start on the bench. Its scary what Dublin can call on. At best Mayo can hope for a draw the first day but that's a best case scenario. If it goes to a replay it will probably play out similar to last year.

Dublin's bench will win this AI imo.

It is not just the quality and number of the subs, it is the ability to adapt the gameplan or bring something different on to the pitch.

You need a forward on the edge of the square (O'Gara), who can kick long-distance points (Connolly), who will run at defenders (McMenamin), who will field diagonal long passes (Brogan), who is an extra midfielder (Flynn) or you have two defenders on a yellow and an opposition forward causing trouble, summon Daly or Byrne, problems in midfield, well there is Carthy or McCauley.

With their subs line-up, Dublin can do running repairs when any game is going against them, meaning you need a lot to beat them.

Slattsy

I know it's been said and there's arguments to think otherwise, but I do genuinely think Dublin underperformed in both games last year.

I think the first game it's pretty obvious we did. I blame the rain haha.

In the replayed game (and I need to watch it again) I had this feeling throughout we were just doing enough, simply playing within ourselves or whatever you want to call it. I think we always had another gear there if we needed it. I don't think we were ever going to lose that game.

And from Jims comments after the Tyrone game, he felt we underperformed also.

I also feel that we're in better shape going into this final than last year...

Dyr

McQuillan to ref the final


he'll probably book Philly before the national anthem has been played

seligehgit

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Do you really think that all the pressure is on Dublin?
I think the pressure is on Mayo how many chances do they need to an AI

Also Dublin's subs are far more likely to turn a game then Mayo's.
In fact a Dublin sub might make thier team stronger where required.
Whereas Mayo's subs are going to be weaker then thier starting 15.

Also reagrding last years games. That was Dublin playing below par in two games and still winning! As Kerry would say it was a 'soft all-ireland'

Even if Mayo do get close to winning this time (which I doubt) they will fold the nerves will kick in and they will make basic errors.

Dublin will just play the game like they will play any other have a gameplan set up to counteract Mayo's predicable strengths.

Where does Rochford start?
If you were Mayo manager what could you only try and start a row and hope a few Dublin fellas get sent off?

I don't buy that narrative at all,you only play as well as you are allowed to as the old adage goes.If that was the case one would have expected a much improved performance from Dublin in the second day.

They were the superior team the second day out yet just got over the line.

The Dublin team this year are a much improved outfit with the player turnover and fresher look with the later get go in terms of training.

It kills me to say it but I am not very hopeful of coming out the right side of the result.Logic rules heavily over heart.

Stoner

At the end if the day 30 counties would love to be in our position but aren't because it the two best teams left.

It's been a great journey for Mayo IMO. I remember 2010 as a great year for us too.

Regardless of who wins there have been great days along the way for both counties.

Goes to show you too that the teams and fans can handle a few extra games.

Squatman

corny wrote: »

I wouldn't put anyone off fancying Mayo but these reasons aren't convincing at all.

1. Pressure doesn't come into it with either side. Both are almost professional in how they approach big games. You have ample evidence to demonstrate this.

2. Assuming Dublin go with the same team their subs will include Paul Flynn, MDM, Lowndes, Connolly, Brogan. On paper they have the greater scope to change the game without question.

3. The form between Dublin and Mayo is well established. Previous form should trump the tested V not tested, better this year V worse last year lark all day.

1.) agreed ish - with dublins "approach" more professional due to increased funding (57% of national funding going to dublin). Home advantage, and a home Ref (LOL)

2.) Conor Loftus fairly changed games for us. As did PAddy durkan. Shane nally is excellent, and allstar defender Ger Cafferkey. - That will be enough for us, as dublin will have too many players sent off

3.) dont care