Leeds United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2020/2021

Jaysis, so much doom and gloom.

Our first bad result, missing Philips and Rodrigo against a team that will get a few scalps In London.

And before we flog the entire defence, I'd say let's just try the Spanish international defender who has yet to feature because of injury.

10000maniacs

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysis, so much doom and gloom.

Our first bad result, missing Philips and Rodrigo against a team that will get a few scalps In London.

And before we flog the entire defence, I'd say let's just try the Spanish international defender who has yet to feature because of injury.

Not counting last weeks bad result. :pac:

stryker mcqueen

How is that not a penalty

Carcharodon

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysis, so much doom and gloom.

Our first bad result, missing Philips and Rodrigo against a team that will get a few scalps In London.

And before we flog the entire defence, I'd say let's just try the Spanish international defender who has yet to feature because of injury.

Really dude ? You must be watching different games if you don’t see the reality of the past two games.

Carcharodon

stryker mcqueen wrote: »

How is that not a penalty

Insane !!!!
Penalty all day long, VAR not our friend today

GoldFour4

The injuries are what’s killing us. Roberts and Alioski aren’t good enough to be getting big minutes. The depth just isn’t there.

Seathrun66

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysis, so much doom and gloom.

Our first bad result, missing Philips and Rodrigo against a team that will get a few scalps In London.

And before we flog the entire defence, I'd say let's just try the Spanish international defender who has yet to feature because of injury.

Agreed. Many better players on the sidelines than on the pitch. Llorente, Rodrigo & KP out but are Poveda/Raphinha and Shackleton not more worthy of places than Costa & Strujik? We could also have done with Pablo today.

We must also realise that these games turn on moments. Had Bamford scored in the second minute on Monday or his goal not disallowed today? Hugely hypothetical but 1-4 losses I think not.

Depressing stuff and we'll have more bad days but I'm not worried about getting involved in any sort of relegation fight.

event

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysis, so much doom and gloom.

Our first bad result, missing Philips and Rodrigo against a team that will get a few scalps In London.

And before we flog the entire defence, I'd say let's just try the Spanish international defender who has yet to feature because of injury.

Its not doom and gloom from me. I am still very confident we will stay up, which is all I am hoping for this year. But the defence is not good enough.

We've conceded 17 goals in 8 games.
Last year we didnt concede 17 goals until we were 25 games in. You cannot be naive and just play the same way at this level

Carcharodon

Carcharodon wrote: »

Really dude ? You must be watching different games if you don’t see the reality of the past two games.

I see the reality.

In the last game, a team with aims to play in the CL played a team that hopes to stay up...missing 3 international players. The former won well. Anyone who expected otherwise, anyone who sees that as part of some collapse or thinks it points to Bielsa suddenly becoming a bad manager or being found out is not seeing the reality.

Today was a bad day. It happens to newly promoted sides. Especially one that has yet to field its strongest 11. That's the reality.

10000maniacs

Deleted User wrote: »

I see the reality.

In the last game, a team with aims to play in the CL played a team that hopes to stay up...missing 3 international players. The former won well. Anyone who expected otherwise, anyone who sees that as part of some collapse or thinks it points to Bielsa suddenly becoming a bad manager or being found out is not seeing the reality.

Today was a bad day. It happens to newly promoted sides. Especially one that has yet to field its strongest 11. That's the reality.

Howard Wilkinson would beg to differ. Leeds hit the park running when they were last promoted. Better players maybe, Worse opposition maybe. A long time ago maybe.
But now in 2020, we are two solid defenders away from avoiding becoming the new whipping boys.

Seathrun66

10000maniacs wrote: »

Howard Wilkinson would beg to differ. Leeds hit the park running when they were last promoted. Better players maybe, Worse opposition maybe. A long time ago maybe.
But now in 2020, we are two solid defenders away from avoiding becoming the new whipping boys.

Opinions on the ability of the team greatly differing here. Much depends on individual's assessment of our starting 11. No options to play Rodrigo, Llorente and Phillips today who for me are all straight onto the sheet. I'd also add Raphinha, Hernandez, Shackleton and Poveda ahead of some who were chosen today. We're going to have injuries throughout the season that'll expose the squad but this last fortnight has been particularly bad.

Worry not, there will be more bad days but there will many good time ahead also.

event

From Phil Hay:

Bielsa's post match reaction - by far the most intriguing part of this surrounded Hernandez. He was fit today but not involved. Bielsa said he picked the 18 players who were "most apt" for the game at Palace. He said it might seem a strange decision but it was the one he took. I asked him if Hernandez had been left out because of his reaction against Leicester. He didn't comment on that directly. "He was available and I picked other players." More to come on this you would think.

On the game itself, Bielsa thought it was fair that Leeds lost but not 4-1. He felt that Palace's goals came in periods were Leeds were threatening themselves.

Shackleton was absent through injury today.

stryker mcqueen

That's worrying about Pablo, squad needs to stick together

Eggs For Dinner

Costa, Alioski, Struijk and Roberts are not Premier players. Raphina !ooked class

Hijpo

Aylings legs looked gone again, is it just the way he runs??

Didn't look overly bossed by palace, just unlucky with the run of the game. A loopy header that could have easily gone over or wide, Klichs slip had koch making an awkward challenge take nothing away from the free because it was perfect how often will he do that this season?, Costas OG, alioski and struijk both completely switching off momentarily for the 4th.

The offside goal, the abysmal attempt at a header and raphinha very close with his own free. Another day that's 4 for us.

Wouldn't be overly devastated by it.

10000maniacs

Hijpo wrote: »

Aylings legs looked gone again, is it just the way he runs??

Didn't look overly bossed by palace, just unlucky with the run of the game.

Wouldn't be overly devastated by it.

It's not bad luck. We simply don't deal well with pressure on our goal.
Set pieces are as good as penalties to the opposition.
Simply not good enough in defence.

10000maniacs

10000maniacs wrote: »

Howard Wilkinson would beg to differ. Leeds hit the park running when they were last promoted. Better players maybe, Worse opposition maybe. A long time ago maybe.
But now in 2020, we are two solid defenders away from avoiding becoming the new whipping boys.

But even if you look at that season, Leeds lost the 4th game to Luton and went on a bad run, 3 losses and 3 draws in 7 games, which also included losing to QPR. Then things settled down.

Incidentally, the Square Ball is doing a game by game review of that season in their podcasts, some great memories.

is_that_so

Disappointed with the result but very tough when your most expensive player and your best player are not available for selection. One or two players are also falling below the PL standard, Costa the notable one. Still mid-table and definitely better than a good few teams below. It'll be the usual roller coaster season!

Jimmy Two Times

Think Leicester were much better than we were, sussed us out easily and picked us off with three great counter attacking goals,albeit helped by our mistakes.

Palace was different. They only opened us up once for the fourth goal. Poor set piece defending,bad luck and bad goalkeeping cost us heavily. If Pat's first goal stands it's 1-1 and a different game.

Do agree that some of the players are struggling. Said last week if you double up on Harrison and Costa they look very poor.Struijk never got to the pace of the game and they even managed to keep Dallas quiet.

If Harrison passes to Alioski and goes into the box for the return instead of trying a Pirlo pass across the box it might well be 3 - 2 instead of 4 - 1.

Robbie Savage's comment that the offside decision was the worst decision in the history of football tells us all we need to know.

Finally, how VAR doesn't look at the penalty incident is beyond me. Sheff United got one against Liverpool last week, right on the edge of the box too. At least look at it to give the impression that there is some sort of consistency.

Very happy to see WBA and Fulham's bad luck to keep them well below us for the moment.

chicorytip

David O'Leary is a better manager than Marcelo Bielsa.

is_that_so

chicorytip wrote: »

David O'Leary is a better manager than Marcelo Bielsa.

Is this an essay title?

chicorytip

is_that_so wrote: »

Is this an essay title?

No, it's a fact. O'Leary brought Leeds to the Champions League quarter finals. Bielsa has never managed club or country to the final stages of a major tournament.

Kingp35

chicorytip wrote: »

No, it's a fact. O'Leary brought Leeds to the Champions League quarter finals. Bielsa has never managed club or country to the final stages of a major tournament.

Semi-Final. Stop underestimating O'Leary's babies.

is_that_so

chicorytip wrote: »

No, it's a fact. O'Leary brought Leeds to the Champions League quarter finals. Bielsa has never managed club or country to the final stages of a major tournament.

There were a lot of really good players in that O'Leary squad and that's not to fault the current efforts and talents. Bielsa has an Olympic gold to his name, with Argentina and Athletic Bilbao got to the final of the Europa League against Atletico Madrid in 2012.

chicorytip

chicorytip wrote: »

David O'Leary is a better manager than Marcelo Bielsa.

I see 3 posts from last season where you said West Brom were a class apart, Leeds should sack Bielsa and you felt they should hire Gordon Strachan.

I mean, your entitled to opinions...but they seem a bit windy uppy...

Jimmy Two Times

chicorytip wrote: »

David O'Leary is a better manager than Marcelo Bielsa.

Yeah, he managed to let Woodgate and his mates run amok in Leeds one night, wrote a book about it and completely ****ed up the club for years.

Imagine any of Bielas's players even contemplating that.

Zaph

is_that_so wrote: »

There were a lot of really good players in that O'Leary squad and that's not to fault the current efforts and talents. Bielsa has an Olympic gold to his name, with Argentina and Athletic Bilbao got to the final of the Europa League against Atletico Madrid in 2012.

Bielsa also got Newell's Old Boys to the final of the Copa Libertadores, which is a pretty big deal.

Seathrun66

chicorytip wrote: »

No, it's a fact. O'Leary brought Leeds to the Champions League quarter finals. Bielsa has never managed club or country to the final stages of a major tournament.

With Argentina he won the Olympic gold and the CONMEBOL pre-Olympic tournament. He also took them to the final of the Copa America (European Championship equivalent) in 2004 where they lost on penalties to Brazil who were then World Cup holders.

He has won the Argentine league several times and took Newell's Old Boys to the Copa Libertadores (Champions League equivalent) final in 1992 where they lost on penalties to Sao Paulo who then went on to beat Barcelona in the Intercontinental Cup.

As aforementioned he took Bilbao to the final of the Europa Cup in 2012 where they lost to Atletico Madrid.

Whether you think O'Leary is better is irrelevant, it's your subjective opinion. But before posting it's occasionally useful to check the facts. Try it sometime, possibly uncomfortable at first but you'll get the hang of it.

event

Ah lads, we knew this would happen.
We get back to the PL, its going to attract people who dont really understand football and think it will be hilarious to post fairly stupid statements

event

So tell us, where did Bielsa and Leeds hurt you?

chicorytip wrote: »

West Brom look a class above everybody else.

chicorytip wrote: »

Sack the manager!

chicorytip wrote: »

Strachan would be the right man for the job.

chicorytip wrote: »

Bielsa is a runner. He will resign tomorrow if he's not sacked beforehand which he should be. Grossly unprofessional, not a proper manager.

chicorytip wrote: »

If he were working in any other form of industry and engaging in such - let's call it unethical - behaviour in order to gain some commercial advantage over a competitor and doing so unbeknownst to his own employers, he would be gone. Allardyce was sacked by England on the basis of certain comments he made which gave an impression that he may have accepted illegal payments from agents in the past but without a single shred of evidence to confirm that he had actually done so. This kind of "spying" stuff is redolent of Argentina 1978 and military juntas.

chicorytip wrote: »

He should be sacked, however, and if the EFL decide to deduct all or some points or impose a major financial penalty his actions may not appear quite so genius like just downright stupid and irresponsible.

And then there is this absolute classic of course.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93331856&postcount=1

chicorytip wrote:

Wayne Rooney,in my opinion,is the greatest player in world football.He possesses a far greater range of skills and displays far better attitude,competitiveness and sportsmanship than the likes of the over-hyped Ronaldo and Messi.Despite all this however,he seems to suffer an almost unparalleled level of abuse and criticism from supporters and media and has been hampered to a certain extent playing for managers who don't know how to get the best out of him.In the annals of football history he will surely be written of as the greatest British player of his era and possibly of all time.I say all this not as a Manchester United supporter, by the way.

I think we'll just leave it there

Just as an addition. Since 2014, when you posted that:

Ronaldo - 1 la Liga, 3 CLs, 2 Uefa Supercups, 2 FIFA Club world cups, 2 Serie A, 1 Italian Cup, The European Championship and 1 Nations League, 3 Balon D'Or and a number of other individual accolades. He has scored over 250 goals since then. He currently plays for Juve

Messi - 4 La liga, 4 copa del ray, 1 CL, 1 Uefa Supercups, 1 FIFA Club world cup, 2 Balon D'or and a number of other individual accolade. He has scored over 270 goals since then. He currently plays for Barca

Wayne Rooney - 1 FA Cup. 1 League Cup. 1 charity shield. 1 Europa League. MLS player of the month, MLS top scorer & MLS All Star. He has scored over 70 goals since then. He did manage to get arrested for drink driving in 2017 and was also arrested for being drunk in an airport in 2018. He currently plays in central midfield for Derby County who are bottom of the championship

chicorytip

Seathrun66 wrote: »

With Argentina he won the Olympic gold and the CONMEBOL pre-Olympic tournament. He also took them to the final of the Copa America (European Championship equivalent) in 2004 where they lost on penalties to Brazil who were then World Cup holders.

He has won the Argentine league several times and took Newell's Old Boys to the Copa Libertadores (Champions League equivalent) final in 1992 where they lost on penalties to Sao Paulo who then went on to beat Barcelona in the Intercontinental Cup.

As aforementioned he took Bilbao to the final of the Europa Cup in 2012 where they lost to Atletico Madrid.

Whether you think O'Leary is better is irrelevant, it's your subjective opinion. But before posting it's occasionally useful to check the facts. Try it sometime, possibly uncomfortable at first but you'll get the hang of it.

None of Bielsa's achievements, as you have listed above, could be deemed as significant in comparison to those ofothers of the same generation such as Ferguson, DelBosque, Wenger, Trappattoni, Capello, Scolari, Van Gal, even Goran Ericcson.
I just don't believe he is the genius or messiah his disciples claim him to be. His credentials will be severely tested over the coming months as Leeds are looking like relegation candidates with every passing game. If he can't turn things around he'll walk - that's his form.

Zaph

chicorytip wrote: »

I just don't believe he is the genius or messiah his disciples claim him to be.

Well forgive me if I choose to give more credence to Pep, Simeone or Pochettino's opinions than yours. Everybody is aware of the fact that Bielsa probably should have won more in his career, but he's not the first manager you could say that about and he won't be the last.

chicorytip

chicorytip wrote: »

None of Bielsa's achievements, as you have listed above, could be deemed as significant in comparison to those ofothers of the same generation such as Ferguson, DelBosque, Wenger, Trappattoni, Capello, Scolari, Van Gal, even Goran Ericcson.
I just don't believe he is the genius or messiah his disciples claim him to be. His credentials will be severely tested over the coming months as Leeds are looking like relegation candidates with every passing game. If he can't turn things around he'll walk - that's his form.

I don't think anyone suggested he had a better record than Ferguson.

And that's not what you said in previous posts. You said he should be sacked and Strachan brought in.

3 games ago, Leeds beat Villa 3-0. So your relegation candidates "with every passing game" analysis is based on 2 results.

Though in fairness, it might still be better than your "sack Bielsa, hire Strachan" analysis...:D:D

Seathrun66

chicorytip wrote: »

None of Bielsa's achievements, as you have listed above, could be deemed as significant in comparison to those ofothers of the same generation such as Ferguson, DelBosque, Wenger, Trappattoni, Capello, Scolari, Van Gal, even Goran Ericcson.
I just don't believe he is the genius or messiah his disciples claim him to be. His credentials will be severely tested over the coming months as Leeds are looking like relegation candidates with every passing game. If he can't turn things around he'll walk - that's his form.

His disciples being Guardiola, Pochettino, Klopp, Bilic, Messi, Zidane and many others. But hey, why should I defer to the likes of them when you're offering a persuasive alternative view?

event

chicorytip wrote: »

None of Bielsa's achievements, as you have listed above, could be deemed as significant in comparison to those ofothers of the same generation such as Ferguson, DelBosque, Wenger, Trappattoni, Capello, Scolari, Van Gal, even Goran Ericcson.
I just don't believe he is the genius or messiah his disciples claim him to be. His credentials will be severely tested over the coming months as Leeds are looking like relegation candidates with every passing game. If he can't turn things around he'll walk - that's his form.

Yeah good man. You seem be be a good judge of players and managers, what with your great analysis of Rooney and how Messi and Ronaldo aren't as good as him.

If he can't turn things around he'll walk. He's the 7th longest serving manager in the premier league and this is the longest hes ever been at any club. I'm not expecting him to stay longer than next year tbh. Hed be there 3 years and be 65 years old. Thats plenty for any manager these days, they don't stay longer.

By the looks of it, it'll affect you way more than any leeds fan though. You have a very weird obsession with him. Very weird

I don't even think he has to turn things around. Leeds sit in 15th and if the club is there after 30 more games, it's another great season.

Jimmy Two Times

Deleted User wrote: »

Leeds sit in 15th and if the club is there after 30 more games, it's another great season.

Really don't think any realistic Leeds fan had any other ambition other than to achieve mid table mediocrity this season. While we have spent big,the majority of our players will struggle to come to terms with the demands of the top division.

Not just physically but more importantly, mentally.

Against most teams in the championship you can get away with small mistakes. Can't do it now. Nearly very mistake is punished, Struijk slip against Jimenez,Koch backpass, Costa failing to track his runner and not blocking cross fully,Harrison trying the Pirlo pass across the box,Aloiski not covering Ayew.............all leading to goals.

This has to play on a lad's mind. Historically,we've been notoriously mentally fragile and now is the time this gets exposed. Hopefully when we get Llorente, Rodrigo and Raphina in to the starting line up ( harsh as it will be on the stalwarts they are replacing ) things will improve and the individual errors will stop.

chicorytip

Seathrun66 wrote: »

His disciples being Guardiola, Pochettino, Klopp, Bilic, Messi, Zidane and many others. But hey, why should I defer to the likes of them when you're offering a persuasive alternative view?

Pochettino and Bilic seem out of place on that list. Sure, they've won f all. I think Shankly and Bob Paisley were true messiahs and the real originators of this pressing style of play that Klopp seems to claim as his own invention.

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Yeah good man. You seem be be a good judge of players and managers, what with your great analysis of Rooney and how Messi and Ronaldo aren't as good as him.

If he can't turn things around he'll walk. He's the 7th longest serving manager in the premier league and this is the longest hes ever been at any club. I'm not expecting him to stay longer than next year tbh. Hed be there 3 years and be 65 years old. Thats plenty for any manager these days, they don't stay longer.

By the looks of it, it'll affect you way more than any leeds fan though. You have a very weird obsession with him. Very weird

Ach, he's just trolling. But we should be thankful, he's taken our minds off the Leicester/Palace debacles.

Chicorytip we salute you.

event

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Ach, he's just trolling. But we should be thankful, he's taken our minds off the Leicester/Palace debacles.

Chicorytip we salute you.

Its such a weird thing to focus on. Like there is lots to hate about leeds and he chooses the one thing that is pretty much universally loved?

Comes across like a failed u15 manager, annoyed that Pep hasn't given him a call to come and help with city

10000maniacs

event wrote: »

Its such a weird thing to focus on. Like there is lots to hate about leeds and he chooses the one thing that is pretty much universally loved?

Comes across like a failed u15 manager, annoyed that Pep hasn't given him a call to come and help with city

Zaha and Vardy have exposed our strategy of pushing everybody forward. Our defence does not have the pace to stop runners like that. Costa and Cooper showed how ineffective they were in the last game against half decent players. That needs to be plugged.

Zaph

Spanish media are reporting that Bielsa is going to push for Rodrigo De Paul to be signed in January. It does come with the caveat from Teamtalk that the source may not be the most reliable, but it'll be interesting to see if there's any truth in it.

event

10000maniacs wrote: »

Zaha and Vardy have exposed our strategy of pushing everybody forward. Our defence does not have the pace to stop runners like that. Costa and Cooper showed how ineffective they were in the last game against half decent players. That needs to be plugged.

I reckon Koch and Llorente will become the first choice centre half pairing. I love Cooper but he is not good enough for the PL. And Costa too, could go out for Raphinha

Zaph wrote: »

Spanish media are reporting that Bielsa is going to push for Rodrigo De Paul to be signed in January. It does come with the caveat from Teamtalk that the source may not be the most reliable, but it'll be interesting to see if there's any truth in it.

I wouldnt trust TT at all, just a tabloid site. If anyone knows that stuff, its Phil Hay

Hay recently spoke of how much Leeds and Bielsa don't like January transfers, when players are overpriced and they don't have time to get up to speed with Bielsa's tactics. And Leeds found that out the hard way with Augustin.

event

Yeah I dont see it. They rarely work in general and especially not with MB.

Koch played full game for ze Germans

event

event wrote: »

Koch played full game for ze Germans

When you think about it, Leeds have the starting centre half for Germany who has only played a handful of games for the club, and a Spanish international who has yet to play. Combined, they cost less up front than the amount sought for Ben White, who was excellent...at Championship level.

I don't think they've had higher profile or more exciting centre halves since Ferdinand and Woodgate almost 2 decades ago.

Now they have shipped 8 goals in 2 games, but there really is no point reaching for drastic conclusions about the defence until they play together for an extended time in a settled team, with Phillips in front of them, and we see how it all goes.

It may not work out, but you'd have to give them a good run together before making drastic changes. And even if they don't click, it's hard to see the club losing too much on the £13 million spent on Koch if he's moved on.

I have very little qualms about the business done by the club over the summer. And I wouldn't write off the entire defence just because Leicester and Palace both won well.

Jimmy Two Times

Not sure the it's the defence by itself. OK so there have been some individual errors but it's more an issue that without Phillips,combined with how we lose the ball high up the pitch with everyone attacking that causes us to concede.

We know Cooper is relatively limited at this level and in reality have to accept that Bielsa knows this too. Really hoping that Koch and Llorente will get to play together soon and hopefully form a decent partnership.

However,if we continue to give the ball away leaving us as exposed as we have been so far , there's no centre half pairing in the league that won't concede some goals.

whiterebel

Koch looks the real deal at times, but not having anything like a settled run with a partner won't have helped him. He has been so unlucky I thought he was the German version of Scott Sterling, even Dann's goal came off him. He must have had the worst introduction to the PL of all time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9jXYOH2c0

I doubt Cooper will be good enough, but we need his authority at the back - that's one thing Bielsa improved hugely with him. We have a quiet keeper and need someone to take control at the back. I think were too quick letting Douglas go as well, proper full backs who can get up and down the pitch are a necessity.

NuckChorris1

whiterebel wrote: »

.... We have a quiet keeper and need someone to take control at the back. ...

Which is a pity, because if he started shouting with his voice he'd terrify opposition strikers!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy_aSOem0Ag

Seathrun66

Congrats to Alioski and Macedonia on reaching their first ever tournament. Here's hoping that Dallas & Cooper join him there in about seventy minutes.

Having our players in these tournaments means more games and more injuries but the boost to morale and confidence is more significant I think. We could have six/seven players at a major tournament next Summer. Contrast that with our presence at Russia 2018.