Leeds United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2020/2021

Seathrun66

is_that_so wrote: »

West Ham, Burnley, Newcastle, United and WBA are the remaining games in December - definitely good potential for points there. 23 points+ would be an excellent return to start the New Year.

I'd expect more than 9 points from those five games, particularly with three at home to teams who will be mid-table at best. Both away games are also winnable and while we won't get 15 points I'd expect 11/12.

Seathrun66

Jimmy Two Times wrote: »

Not much to add, definitely the best team we've played so far.

Kante is really impressive, forgotten how quick he is. We sat Klich on him in the first half which lessened both their influences on the game but he was immense after the break.

We do need to do something at left back.While Alioski is half decent going forward he's a disaster from a defensive point of view.

For West Ham, bring in Rodrigo to keep Rice honest and move Stuey to left back.

Harrison is struggling with the step up in class. Reece James ( remember him playing for 10 man Wigan that day ) was superb all night, no matter who we put on that side.

Finally, Poveda goes down and it could be 2 - 2. Might well have finished that way too as we probably wouldn't have been as exposed as we were trying to force it.

Best player on the pitch I thought. So composed and aware for a twenty-year-old.
Hopefully we'll be more confident and tactically better prepared for the return in March.

Zaph

Koch undergoing knee surgery today. No indication of how long he'll be out for, but Phil Hay said it's not thought to be serious.

Ceist_Beag

Zaph wrote: »

Koch undergoing knee surgery today. No indication of how long he'll be out for, but Phil Hay said it's not thought to be serious.

How frustrating that just when Llorente is fit we then lose Koch. Would be nice to get the two of those together for a spell. You could clearly see the last night why Bielsa likes a left footed and a right footed CH. It was very obvious that Llorente was more comfortable on his left peg but ended up hitting passes with his right as he was on that side of the field.

Damo 2k9

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

How frustrating that just when Llorente is fit we then lose Koch. Would be nice to get the two of those together for a spell. You could clearly see the last night why Bielsa likes a left footed and a right footed CH. It was very obvious that Llorente was more comfortable on his left peg but ended up hitting passes with his right as he was on that side of the field.

Seriously frustrating, while Cooper has been great for us you can really see the step up with Llorente and Koch.

is_that_so

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I'd expect more than 9 points from those five games, particularly with three at home to teams who will be mid-table at best. Both away games are also winnable and while we won't get 15 points I'd expect 11/12.

I'm not being greedy! I think 9 is a good target, even allowing for some of the not too rare off days and anything above that is a bonus.

Zaph

The FA Cup game against Crawley will be shown on BBC1 at 1.30 on Sunday 10th January.

Seathrun66

Zaph wrote: »

The FA Cup game against Crawley will be shown on BBC1 at 1.30 on Sunday 10th January.

Early Sunday kick-off, memories of Histon 2008. Worse things could happen than getting knocked out early and free us from distractions. On the other hand we're capable of winning the bloody thing.

event

JKA deal has been referred to FIFA. Have a feeling we'll be paying for it

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

JKA deal has been referred to FIFA. Have a feeling we'll be paying for it

We broke a contract, on spurious grounds. Dates are never set in stone for these things when there are extraordinary circumstances. I feel that we should have just agreed a compromise figure with Leipzig then got a few million back from Nantes and cut our losses rather than stick our heads in the sand.

We could now lose the entire £18m/€20m. Seems like a bad calculation from our board which is unusual.

stryker mcqueen

Seathrun66 wrote: »

We broke a contract, on spurious grounds. Dates are never set in stone for these things when there are extraordinary circumstances. I feel that we should have just agreed a compromise figure with Leipzig then got a few million back from Nantes and cut our losses rather than stick our heads in the sand.

We could now lose the entire £18m/€20m. Seems like a bad calculation from our board which is unusual.

To be fair, Joe Soaps like you and I know nothing about what's been going on in the background. I would be shocked if we just buried our heads in the ground , Commercially Leeds United are top tier.

Ceist_Beag

The article in the Athletic put it quite well. Essentially Leibzip are going with the moral argument, Leeds are going with the legal argument. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Ultimately Nantes seem to have been the big winners here!

Seathrun66

stryker mcqueen wrote: »

To be fair, Joe Soaps like you and I know nothing about what's been going on in the background. I would be shocked if we just buried our heads in the ground , Commercially Leeds United are top tier.

From all reports we've just ignored Leipzig and hoped it would go away. They denied any claim on JKA when he signed with Nantes and Leeds' entire argument is based around the end date of the loan on 30 June. That's not how contract law works, it's not fixed in stone. The spirit of the agreement would be interpreted by the courts and promotion would be the key term. Leipzig have got enormous money behind them, they were CL semi-finalists last year and are in the last 16 again. Some respect is due.

I think we've behaved very badly and would be up in arms had another club done the same to us. It will affect our January transfer window as we're unsure how much to spend with this hanging over us and getting it out of the way would be recommended. We need a replacement CD if Koch is out til March/April and we're still lacking a midfielder/no 10. The projected new 49s investment will help but the board need to apply some focus to the JKA case. It's a matter of what Leipzig would settle for I believe.

Seathrun66

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

The article in the Athletic put it quite well. Essentially Leibzip are going with the moral argument, Leeds are going with the legal argument. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Ultimately Nantes seem to have been the big winners here!

Bargain for Nantes, hats off to them.

And Leipzig not only have the moral but legal high-ground. The loan contract states both an end date of June 30th and promotion. The season was delayed under extraordinary circumstances and contract law allows for that interpretation, dates not always set in stone. Promotion is key and we will lose this case if we allow it to proceed. We were never going to win this one and it's been pig-headed of the board to hope this will go away. Surprisingly so given how sharp they've been with everything else.

adaminho

Ultimately Nantes seem to have been the big winners here!

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1335277543688179715?s=19

event

He is a lazy lad by the sounds of it

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

He is a lazy lad by the sounds of it

Ha ha. And only 23. Had been on the fringes of the French squad, offloaded by Leipzig then us so you'd think he'd have something to prove.

Ceist_Beag

adaminho wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1335277543688179715?s=19

Or maybe they weren't such big winners eh! What a waste of obvious talent.

is_that_so

Seathrun66 wrote: »

From all reports we've just ignored Leipzig and hoped it would go away. They denied any claim on JKA when he signed with Nantes and Leeds' entire argument is based around the end date of the loan on 30 June. That's not how contract law works, it's not fixed in stone. The spirit of the agreement would be interpreted by the courts and promotion would be the key term. Leipzig have got enormous money behind them, they were CL semi-finalists last year and are in the last 16 again. Some respect is due.

I think we've behaved very badly and would be up in arms had another club done the same to us. It will affect our January transfer window as we're unsure how much to spend with this hanging over us and getting it out of the way would be recommended. We need a replacement CD if Koch is out til March/April and we're still lacking a midfielder/no 10. The projected new 49s investment will help but the board need to apply some focus to the JKA case. It's a matter of what Leipzig would settle for I believe.

I'm not sure you'd call it ignoring them. This is now a legal dispute and that takes time and an arbiter; possibly CAS after FIFA. I think it will be tough for them to push the moral argument solely, given what's happened this year. I'd expect a compromise figure as they have had no outlay on the player for most of this year anyway.

stryker mcqueen

Llorente out for 2 weeks... A history of muscle injuries.... FFS

Ceist_Beag

And Koch could be out for up to 3 months ... cock!

Zaph

Cooper and Struijk starting for the next few weeks so. Fingers crossed one of them doesn't pick up an injury as well.

Ceist_Beag

Apparently not, team named for the weekend has Ayling and Coops CHs, with Dallas RB and Alioski LB. Rodrigo comes in to midfield.

purple hands

Back to naming the line-up He was in good form according to Phil Hay, probably because he can't wait to just coach the f*ck out of the situation and find solutions instead of complaining about the injuries. I predict Harrison starting at LB at some point.

At least Llorente is a short-term absence. Not ideal to be moving people out of natural positions, but Ayling has been fine at CB and restores the right-footed & left-footed CB combination. Dallas has been excellent at RB before. And excited to see more of Rodrigo.

whiterebel

I would imagine there is a lot more to the JKA situation. There may be problems that weren't disclosed or something of that nature. The fact that Rennes also find him a problem may add some more weight to our case.

championc

whiterebel wrote: »

I would imagine there is a lot more to the JKA situation. There may be problems that weren't disclosed or something of that nature. The fact that Rennes also find him a problem may add some more weight to our case.

You beat me to it. There will be something about whether the goods were fit for purpose, and evidence is stacking up that he clearly isn't, and maybe the player and others have been pulling the wool over Leeds' and Nantes' eyes !!!

Seathrun66

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm not sure you'd call it ignoring them. This is now a legal dispute and that takes time and an arbiter; possibly CAS after FIFA. I think it will be tough for them to push the moral argument solely, given what's happened this year. I'd expect a compromise figure as they have had no outlay on the player for most of this year anyway.

The Leeds stance has been to wash their hands of the entire affair after 30 June passed. Not clever when they could have negotiated with Leipzig in good spirit and paid less than FIFA or CAS will force on them. It has been a legal dispute from the outset but we have not engaged with them. Childish I think, and disrespectful to RBL.

It'll be a compromise figure but more in favour of Leipzig than Leeds. Not something we should ever have got caught up in. We made a transfer error but the buck stops with us. Not with Leipzig.

Seathrun66

championc wrote: »

You beat me to it. There will be something about whether the goods were fit for purpose, and evidence is stacking up that he clearly isn't, and maybe the player and others have been pulling the wool over Leeds' and Nantes' eyes !!!

Doesn't work that way. We scouted him, watched videos and subjected him to a full medical. We agreed terms based on that research including buying him outright after promotion. We made a mistake. And a costly one.

Anything happening in Nantes right now has no legal bearing on the case.

downthemiddle

Alex Sabella RIP.

adaminho

Seathrun66 wrote: »

The Leeds stance has been to wash their hands of the entire affair after 30 June passed. Not clever when they could have negotiated with Leipzig in good spirit and paid less than FIFA or CAS will force on them. It has been a legal dispute from the outset but we have not engaged with them. Childish I think, and disrespectful to RBL.

It'll be a compromise figure but more in favour of Leipzig than Leeds. Not something we should ever have got caught up in. We made a transfer error but the buck stops with us. Not with Leipzig.

There's a lot we don't know about the deal! If he had suffered a serious injury do you still think we'd be on the hook for the full deal? At the end of the day we terminated the deal on the 30th and at the time we hadn't been promoted. It also begs the question that if the season had been voided what would have happened? I don't think Leeds washed their hands of it more so they're confident in their position!

adaminho

downthemiddle wrote: »

Alex Sabella RIP.

Wasn't he linked with the managers Job under Cellino?

Seathrun66

adaminho wrote: »

There's a lot we don't know about the deal! If he had suffered a serious injury do you still think we'd be on the hook for the full deal? At the end of the day we terminated the deal on the 30th and at the time we hadn't been promoted. It also begs the question that if the season had been voided what would have happened? I don't think Leeds washed their hands of it more so they're confident in their position!

Contractually yes, if he'd been injured, owing to the deal we'd made.

Had the season been voided I'm pretty sure we'd have got off the hook.

After the delayed promotion they just hoped Leipzig would go away. But they won't and confidence in the position means they're being poorly advised. Any litigation or contract specialists would have made them aware of how vulnerable their position is and Leeds will certainly be paying out. And more so than if they'd made an earlier, pragmatic compromise deal with RBL.

event

stryker mcqueen wrote: »

Llorente out for 2 weeks... A history of muscle injuries.... FFS

Have we signed a dud?

championc wrote: »

You beat me to it. There will be something about whether the goods were fit for purpose, and evidence is stacking up that he clearly isn't, and maybe the player and others have been pulling the wool over Leeds' and Nantes' eyes !!!

I seriously doubt that

I'm not too bothered what happens with JKA, if we have to pay the money so what. Hasnt affected our transfers this year

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Have we signed a dud?



I seriously doubt that

I'm not too bothered what happens with JKA, if we have to pay the money so what. Hasnt affected our transfers this year

I don't think so with Llorente but it looks like we'll get annual short-term injuries. Possibly played v Chelsea before fully recovered from the international injury?

In terms of JKA, budgeting for January transfers and beyond would be easier if we knew what we had to pay out. Given the likely new 49ers investment the club doesn't seem to be under any pressure. Hopefully that'll mean either De Paul or Nandez in January.

event

Looking up his injury history

18/19 - missed 15 games
19/20 - missed 8 games
20/21 - missed 8 games so far

This isn't a player who can be relied on to play consistently when you look at it.

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Looking up his injury history

18/19 - missed 15 games
19/20 - missed 8 games
20/21 - missed 8 games so far

This isn't a player who can be relied on to play consistently when you look at it.

Yeah, that's not great. The only proviso is that I think for us you can only count from the international break as MB didn't call on him after his arrival in late Sept. That's 6 games missed but it'll be 8 soon enough, or more. Here's hoping the rest of year is clear.

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Looking up his injury history

18/19 - missed 15 games
19/20 - missed 8 games
20/21 - missed 8 games so far

This isn't a player who can be relied on to play consistently when you look at it.

He's played on average 27 games for the past five seasons in La Liga. Unsure whether injury form or adaptation to a new club has meant him missing 11 per season. Would we be satisfied if he averaged that for us? I think I would.

is_that_so

Seathrun66 wrote: »

The Leeds stance has been to wash their hands of the entire affair after 30 June passed. Not clever when they could have negotiated with Leipzig in good spirit and paid less than FIFA or CAS will force on them. It has been a legal dispute from the outset but we have not engaged with them. Childish I think, and disrespectful to RBL.

It'll be a compromise figure but more in favour of Leipzig than Leeds. Not something we should ever have got caught up in. We made a transfer error but the buck stops with us. Not with Leipzig.

RBL were looking for the whole lot and repeatedly said so. Leeds disagreed based on what transpired this year, that's business and it requires an arbiter.

downthemiddle

adaminho wrote: »

Wasn't he linked with the managers Job under Cellino?

Wasn't everyone?

Seathrun66

is_that_so wrote: »

RBL were looking for the whole lot and repeatedly said so. Leeds disagreed based on what transpired this year, that's business and it requires an arbiter.

What's your best guess as to the outcome?

NuckChorris1

Optimistic for tonight even with the defensive worries. Rodrigo's time to shine. 3-1 Leeds.

David Moyes wondering if Bielsa naming the team could be a bluff shows the level of research some PL managers do.

is_that_so

Seathrun66 wrote: »

What's your best guess as to the outcome?

A compromise and money will probably need to be exchanged, maybe about half, but settled out of court as they say.

Seathrun66

is_that_so wrote: »

A compromise and money will probably need to be exchanged, maybe about half, but settled out of court as they say.

Same thoughts as me. Was always the likely outcome so surprised they didn't wrap it up earlier. But, as you say, we're not privy to what's going on behind the scenes.

Ceist_Beag

NuckChorris1 wrote: »

Optimistic for tonight even with the defensive worries. Rodrigo's time to shine. 3-1 Leeds.

David Moyes wondering if Bielsa naming the team could be a bluff shows the level of research some PL managers do.

Also a bit optimistic, I think Raphinha and Rodrigo could strike up a good understanding given time together.

whiterebel

Bielsa is in the last 3 for the FIFA coach of the year competition with Klopp and Herr Flick.

event

Has to be Flick really

~Rebel~

event wrote: »

Has to be Flick really

Yeah, particularly after Klopp winning it the previous year, takes the pressure off having to recognise him ending Liverpools barren league run.

What Flick did for the second half of last year was fairly incredible.
Wonder would he be the first to win it for a role he was in for less than a season?

event

Team as we thought anyway. I like Dallas in midfield though. Benrahma starting, he'll need to be on his game. Dallas I mean

whiterebel

I'm surprised that Struijk didn't get a run out at CB. I think he looks ok there, but not able for the holding mid role.

10000maniacs

Bad feeling about this one. The Hammers are a fast outfit. Benrahma will be a nightmare.