Leeds United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2020/2021

newhouse87

event wrote: »

This data is from up to the 13th November.

Bamford has a better shot conversion rate than Sadio Mane and Harry Kane.

Every striker misses chances lads. Picking on bamford is hilarious at times

I shall see at the end of the season, anybody i talk to im berating him so it seems to be working against me so i will keep it up ha.

10000maniacs

Watching Arsenal against Burnley.
Burnley are a near carbon copy of Leeds.
Like us, they are great at going forward but they have a donkey up front who couldn't score to save his life.
Robbie Brady is their best player, but should stop crossing into the box and have a go himself.
Slightly better in defence and set pieces than us, but Leeds set the benchmark on that.

10000maniacs

I hope you don't mind, 10000, I've compiled my favourite 3 lines from this season...

3rd place...

10000maniacs wrote: »

Burnley are a near carbon copy of Leeds.
Like us, they are great at going forward but they have a donkey up front who couldn't score to save his life.

2nd...

10000maniacs wrote: »

We've regressed to two years ago.

But still, my favourite...

10000maniacs wrote: »

Reminds me of the Hockaday era Championship rubbish we had to endure.

Seathrun66

newhouse87 wrote: »

Longtime leeds fan and as happy as i was to go up, i knew we had alot of bang average players ,cooper, costa, ayling,alioski, harrison and bamford(who has been ok lately tbf) are not prem league standard, harrison in particular has shown he is not up to this level, does he ever beat the first man with a cross? Rodrigo was not an out and out goal scorer coming so bemuses me as to why we bought him, i would have much preferred Watkins. Still think we will stay up but the unfortunate thing about the being in the prem is that i have lot more down moods then up days this year but i wouldn't change it as i though we would never get out of the championship. Raphinha does look a real talent but other then that orta has been poor.

Meslier has been excellent.
Rodrigo probably not fully fit after getting Covid six weeks ago. Spain's main striker.
Koch is a German international defender.
Llorente is a Spanish international defender.
Gelhardt and /or Greenwood will come through this year.

Orta has done brilliantly and will be a major reason for us finishing mid-table this season. The talent is there, we've just been shaky. That will change.

10000maniacs

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope you don't mind, 10000, I've compiled my favourite 3 lines from this season...

3rd place...


2nd...


But still, my favourite...

No not really, these comments were coming off heavy defeats.
I get that players can improve, but Rodrigo and Bamford need to be more clinical in front of goal, obviously you think otherwise. If Rodrigo got either side of the keeper for one of his three efforts on goal yesterday, we would have picked up something from the game.
And there is no excuse for that Leeds team losing 4:1 twice on the trot. As a fan you come out of those situations hoping that we would have learnt from those mistakes. But it just seems to be getting worse.
And Conor, you have come out with some hairy chestnuts in your time on this forum. But I don't go trawling through previous posts to resurrect what you said most likely in another context. It's not dignified.

adaminho

The last home game I was at was a 1-1 Draw with Sunderland under Heckingbottom. Of that team 4 played the other night and Berardi is injured, BPF also started!

10000maniacs

10000maniacs wrote: »

Rodrigo and Bamford need to be more clinical in front of goal, obviously you think otherwise.

Nope. I think pretty much every striker could be more clinical, Vardy's miss rate is well known.

What I disagree with is dismissing Bamford as "a donkey up front". Or that Bielsa's teams play like Dyche's. Or like Hockaday's. I think that's very harsh. But again, it's subjective opinion, I'm not saying you're wrong...I just...disagree!

10000maniacs

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. I think pretty much every striker could be more clinical, Vardy's miss rate is well known.

What I disagree with is dismissing Bamford as "a donkey up front". Or that Bielsa's teams play like Dyche's. Or like Hockaday's. I think that's very harsh. But again, it's subjective opinion, I'm not saying you're wrong...I just...disagree!

Nope, I was actually talking about the Burnley striker who couldn't get any chances on target. I don't think Bamford is a donkey up front, and he has had his good moments this season. But there are better strikers out there.
When I mentioned Hockaday a few weeks back, It was in the context of one match, a 4:1 defeat.
I find it hard to get that you think that everybody who posts on this forum should post positive things about Bielsa and the team. And rake up out of context old posts if they don't. That's not how forums work.

event

FWIW its worth, I dont think Bielsa is infallible. His persistence in man marking at set pieces is costing us games and is indefensible really. Its bordering on negligent and a huge issue I have with him.

But the constant criticism of Bamford is a joke tbh. Every single striker misses chances. I would have thought he would get about 10-14 goals this year. He already has 8. Rodrigo wont score many from central midfield either.

I do think our wide men need to score more though and same with set pieces, our centre halves need to be more of a threat.

whiterebel

Tallest CH we have is Koch at 190cm. Cooper 1.88, Ayling shorter again. Ogbonna 191, Soucek 192cm. Meslier is 1.97 - he has the height, we need to get players out of the box and let him command it.

10000maniacs

event wrote: »

FWIW its worth, I dont think Bielsa is infallible. His persistence in man marking at set pieces is costing us games and is indefensible really. Its bordering on negligent and a huge issue I have with him.

But the constant criticism of Bamford is a joke tbh. Every single striker misses chances. I would have thought he would get about 10-14 goals this year. He already has 8. Rodrigo wont score many from central midfield either.

I do think our wide men need to score more though and same with set pieces, our centre halves need to be more of a threat.

BTW, the set piece issues and defensive frailty is basic Sunday league stuff, and for somebody of Bielsa's stature and experience, it is simply not good enough. And it has always been an issue under Bielsa.

event

whiterebel wrote: »

Tallest CH we have is Koch at 190cm. Cooper 1.88, Ayling shorter again. Ogbonna 191, Soucek 192cm. Meslier is 1.97 - he has the height, we need to get players out of the box and let him command it.

Yeah we are tiny but ways around that

10000maniacs wrote: »

BTW, the set piece issues and defensive frailty is basic Sunday league stuff, and for somebody of Bielsa's stature and experience, it is simply not good enough. And it has always been an issue under Bielsa.

Yeah its pretty bad. He's an incredibly stubborn man

Kingp35

Bamford is definitely not the problem. He has been good this season and doesn't miss as many chances as is made out.

The problem is the players around him. It's quite obvious at this point that Costa, Harrison, Roberts, Alioski, Cooper and to a lesser extent Poveda are not Premier League quality. There's not a lot that can be done though as we were hardly going to change the entire squad. As others have said, finishing 17th will be seen as success.

There's a few posters on this thread that massively over estimate our quality. We could quite easily be dragged into a relegation fight, we're hoping that Bielsa's class will help us avoid that. In saying that though, I don't think we've had our strongest team on the pitch yet this season - Kock and Llorente are our best CB pairing and Rodrigo needs a run of games too.

There are warning signs at the moment, especially defending set pieces, hopefully Bielsa has a plan though.

10000maniacs

Kingp35 wrote: »

Bamford is definitely not the problem. He has been good this season and doesn't miss as many chances as is made out.

The problem is the players around him. It's quite obvious at this point that Costa, Harrison, Roberts, Alioski, Cooper and to a lesser extent Poveda are not Premier League quality. There's not a lot that can be done though as we were hardly going to change the entire squad. As others have said, finishing 17th will be seen as success.

There's a few posters on this thread that massively over estimate our quality. We could quite easily be dragged into a relegation fight, we're hoping that Bielsa's class will help us avoid that. In saying that though, I don't think we've had our strongest team on the pitch yet this season - Kock and Llorente are our best CB pairing and Rodrigo needs a run of games too.

There are warning signs at the moment, especially defending set pieces, hopefully Bielsa has a plan though.

For some posters here, criticizing Bielsa is taking the almighty's name in vain on this forum.
Bielsa needs to shore up the defence. People need to be critical of him until he gets the basics right in defence.
This weekend, Fulham and Burnley gave master classes on how to hold a much better team at bay for 60 minutes, and they got results. Currently a free kick outside the box is as good as a penalty when playing Leeds. Even a corner is nearly a dead cert against us.

Jimmy Two Times

is_that_so wrote: »

Add in a dip in form for up to half a dozen players - Klich, Harrison, Costa, Alioski, Phillips, to an extent ,Roberts (no form) and the engine is running on half power.

Disagree that it is a dip in form. The level of opposition is far superior to anything these lads have faced in their careers on a week in week out basis. Watched the U23 game yesterday and Roberts looked ropey enough even in that company.

Look at Fulham yesterday. That team is unrecognisable from what they came up with.

New keeper,new centre Backs,new full backs,no places for Harrison Reed,Tom Cairney or Joe Bryan, in fact they only started one player that started in the 3-0 defeat to us after lockdown. In fairness to Parker, he obviously realised he was going nowhere with the team he had and addressed it quickly. ( Caveat, they did have Michael Hector,Anthony Knockaert and Harry Arter on loan at that point last season )

Have to admit that I'm starting to get a little worried now as it looks like teams can rely our giving the ball away cheaply and on set pieces to score against us.

Still think we will survive but won't be as comfortable as I thought after the first few games.

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Yeah we are tiny but ways around that



Yeah its pretty bad. He's an incredibly stubborn man

In truth so are all great managers. I'd personally alter the team selection, would bring on different substitutes and alter the set-piece defending. However, I didn't take a mid-league Championship team and lead them to the title in two seasons. I also didn't attract pedigree players to the club and earn a (probable) mid-table finish.

I'd love MB to stay with us for another 18 months then hand over to a disciple like Pochettino. Friday was awful, but the future is good.

Seathrun66

Kingp35 wrote: »

Bamford is definitely not the problem. He has been good this season and doesn't miss as many chances as is made out.

The problem is the players around him. It's quite obvious at this point that Costa, Harrison, Roberts, Alioski, Cooper and to a lesser extent Poveda are not Premier League quality. There's not a lot that can be done though as we were hardly going to change the entire squad. As others have said, finishing 17th will be seen as success.

There's a few posters on this thread that massively over estimate our quality. We could quite easily be dragged into a relegation fight, we're hoping that Bielsa's class will help us avoid that. In saying that though, I don't think we've had our strongest team on the pitch yet this season - Kock and Llorente are our best CB pairing and Rodrigo needs a run of games too.

There are warning signs at the moment, especially defending set pieces, hopefully Bielsa has a plan though.

I may be one of those. The core of the promotion side is very good indeed. Phillips now an English international and Bamford (third highest English goalscorer in PL available for selection, Vardy retired) may join him. Meslier in France u-21 squad and likely to be in the senior squad in the next few years. Ayling and Dallas have adapted. Hernandez has been injured. Poveda and Shackleton look good. Our buys have been impressive thus far but injuries or illness to Koch, Lllorente & Rodrigo means we've not seen the best of them. Raphinha has been impressive and will only get better. Greenwood and Gelhardt are good enough to break through at some stage. We've not yet had our first choice team playing and that may not happen until March/April.

I think we could do with an extra CD and midfielder but as it stands I believe that we're better than half the division, including teams like Palace and West Ham that have beaten us. To attract decent players in the summer we need to finish higher than 17th and I'm pretty sure we will. We're stronger than Newcastle, Burnley and WBA. A few victories before New Year and things will look very different indeed.

Seathrun66

10000maniacs wrote: »

For some posters here, criticizing Bielsa is taking the almighty's name in vain on this forum.
Bielsa needs to shore up the defence. People need to be critical of him until he gets the basics right in defence.
This weekend, Fulham and Burnley gave master classes on how to hold a much better team at bay for 60 minutes, and they got results. Currently a free kick outside the box is as good as a penalty when playing Leeds. Even a corner is nearly a dead cert against us.

But it's not. We conceded six corners against WHU and several free kicks yet only two goals were scored by them.

4 corners for Everton, 3 for Arsenal and both had several free-kicks yet no goals.

Our greatest issue in defence is not having the Koch/Llorente pairing. And nor will we for three months so a buy and some adaptation is required.

10000maniacs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

But it's not. We conceded six corners against WHU and several free kicks yet only two goals were scored by them.

4 corners for Everton, 3 for Arsenal and both had several free-kicks yet no goals.

Our greatest issue in defence is not having the Koch/Llorente pairing. And nor will we for three months so a buy and some adaptation is required.

Phew, I will feel much more confident now if Newcastle get corners or free kicks on Wednesday. Thanks for allaying my fears.

Seathrun66

10000maniacs wrote: »

Phew, I will feel much more confident now if Newcastle get corners or free kicks on Wednesday. Thanks for allaying my fears.

That's no problem, thank me later for introducing you to stats.

10000maniacs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

That's no problem, thank me later for introducing you to stats.

Ok, good to know we are in good hands, and that nothing has to be done. We'd be topping the league if we weren't so unlucky. Its all down to bad luck.

Seathrun66

10000maniacs wrote: »

Ok, good to know we are in good hands, and that nothing has to be done. We'd be topping the league if we weren't so unlucky. Its all down to bad luck.

Nope, straw man stuff. All I ask is that you don't exaggerate the issues and whine a little less.

10000maniacs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Nope, straw man stuff. All I ask is that you don't exaggerate the issues and whine a little less.

"Straw man stuff"?. What does that even mean in the context of the discussion we are having? I just expressed a few criticisms. You're the one whining.

Seathrun66

10000maniacs wrote: »

"Straw man stuff"?. What does that even mean in the context of the discussion we are having? I just expressed a few criticisms. You're the one whining.

That chat was about your incorrect info on corners and free-kicks. Nothing more, nothing less. No mention of potential league position.

We're all Leeds fans with varying opinions. But whingeing about every aspect of the team does us no good. Let's get behind them and hope for a top ten finish.

10000maniacs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

That chat was about your incorrect info on corners and free-kicks. Nothing more, nothing less. No mention of potential league position.

We're all Leeds fans with varying opinions. But whingeing about every aspect of the team does us no good. Let's get behind them and hope for a top ten finish.

Its a discussion forum. People are allowed to be critical here if they are respectful to everyone involved. You have to admit we have issues around the areas I mentioned. Ok, its not every free kick or corner. but we have the worst record for set pieces in the division. That's the point I was getting at.

Kingp35

Well if you want to talk about statistics, we've conceded 7 goals from set pieces this season, the worst of any team in the league. it's obviously a problem that needs sorting. Bielsa and the coaching staff need to get their fingers out.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/8228/Stages/18685/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2020-2021

Seathrun66

10000maniacs wrote: »

Its a discussion forum. People are allowed to be critical here if they are respectful to everyone involved. You have to admit we have issues around the areas I mentioned. Ok, its not every free kick or corner. but we have the worst record for set pieces in the division. That's the point I was getting at.

Joint worst, alongside Leicester. Though I'd happily swap their goal difference for ours.

Ceist_Beag

Apart from when we had Jannson, our defending from set pieces and our threat in attack from same has been an issue for the past number of years. It doesn't help having two international CHs out injured but we still need to be able to do better. Looking at that table of stats, Newcastle don't seem to have much threat from set pieces so hopefully we can do better against them.

is_that_so

Jimmy Two Times wrote: »

Disagree that it is a dip in form. The level of opposition is far superior to anything these lads have faced in their careers on a week in week out basis. Watched the U23 game yesterday and Roberts looked ropey enough even in that company.

I'm not sold on Roberts' talent at all, he's just not progressing and he's now 22. Costa to me looks like an expensive bench warmer. Even at Championship level he frustrated enormously. I know Cooper was mentioned above but we have little choice there and great servant that he is, he's adequate at a pinch. Alioski is versatile and a decent squad member and you can see why they've offered him a new deal.

Ceist_Beag

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm not sold on Roberts' talent at all, he's just not progressing and he's now 22. Costa to me looks like an expensive bench warmer. Even at Championship level he frustrated enormously. I know Cooper was mentioned above but we have little choice there and great servant that he is, he's adequate at a pinch. Alioski is versatile and a decent squad member and you can see why they've offered him a new deal.

Agreed on Roberts. In his first season under Bielsa I thought he looked like a good prospect but last season he went backwards and this year he looks completely out of his depth.

PabloAndRoy

It's never dull being a Leeds fan.

I will just leave this here ==> Orta brought us Bielsa.

event

Agree on Roberts. Is he a striker, winger, attacking midfielder?

Does he know himself?

Bielsa isn't going to announce the team early any more to avoid backlash after he basically did it for WHU game

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Agree on Roberts. Is he a striker, winger, attacking midfielder?

Does he know himself?

Bielsa isn't going to announce the team early any more to avoid backlash after he basically did it for WHU game

I'm loathe to criticise players but you could almost hear the collective groan on Leeds forums when he came on for PB. See also Costa for Harrison whilst Hernandez and Poveda remained on the bench.

newhouse87

Seathrun66 wrote: »

But it's not. We conceded six corners against WHU and several free kicks yet only two goals were scored by them.

4 corners for Everton, 3 for Arsenal and both had several free-kicks yet no goals.

Our greatest issue in defence is not having the Koch/Llorente pairing. And nor will we for three months so a buy and some adaptation is required.

only 2 set pieces scored against us in a game and you don't see that as a major problem, as stats have proven we have worst defensive record from set pieces, i, meslier needs to come out for more.

I see Arsenal are top of the set piece stats.

If only Leeds had Arteta...

newhouse87

oh to be able to shrug off any negative aspect of Leeds, some supporters must be just happy with the team all the time, a nice way to be i suppose.

newhouse87

newhouse87 wrote: »

oh to be able to shrug off any negative aspect of Leeds, some supporters must be just happy with the team all the time, a nice way to be i suppose.

And some supporters want to dump players like Bamford and Harrison because, after a handful of games in the top flight (and only one "really disappointing" performance, as you described the West Ham game), they have decided that they are just not "Premier League standard". Which again is a valid opinion...just one I disagree with.

Anyway Arteta is the best at managing defences facing set pieces.

Zaph

For anyone who's recently received a £20 online discount code as part of their membership pack and are not planning to use it, the guy below (Punjabi Whites) is collecting them for distribution to deserving fans in time for Christmas. Just DM him your code and the PIN that came with it.

https://twitter.com/Punjabi_whites/status/1338820090918268930

Zaph

Dates and times for our January games havejust been released:

Tottenham Hotspur v Leeds United
Fixture date: Saturday 2nd January 2021
New kick-off time: 12:30pm live on BT Sport
Venue: Tottenham Hotspur Stadium

Leeds United v Brighton & Hove Albion
Fixture date: Saturday 16th January 2021
Kick-off time: 3pm live on Sky Sports
Venue: Elland Road

Leeds United v Southampton
New fixture date: Wednesday 20th January 2021
New kick-off time: 6pm live on Sky Sports
Venue: Elland Road

Newcastle United v Leeds United
New fixture date: Tuesday 26th January 2021
New kick-off time: 6pm live on BT Sport
Venue: St James’ Park

Leicester City v Leeds United
New fixture date: Sunday 31st January 2021
New kick-off time: 2pm live on Sky Sports
Venue: King Power Stadium

newhouse87

Deleted User wrote: »

And some supporters want to dump players like Bamford and Harrison because, after a handful of games in the top flight (and only one "really disappointing" performance, as you described the West Ham game), they have decided that they are just not "Premier League standard". Which again is a valid opinion...just one I disagree with.

Anyway Arteta is the best at managing defences facing set pieces.

a handful of games? Nearly a third of the season is gone, guarantee i will be proved right about harrison, the day he beats a man with a cross consistently i might change my mind. Bamford is doing ok, still don't think he's clinical enough though.

purple hands

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I'm loathe to criticise players but you could almost hear the collective groan on Leeds forums when he came on for PB. See also Costa for Harrison whilst Hernandez and Poveda remained on the bench.

I was crying out for Pablo, needed a bit of his magic and composure on the ball. Poveda not so much, he's made a few nice cameos but too lightweight for West Ham.

event

newhouse87 wrote: »

a handful of games? Nearly a third of the season is gone, guarantee i will be proved right about harrison, the day he beats a man with a cross consistently i might change my mind. Bamford is doing ok, still don't think he's clinical enough though.

How many goals do you think he should have scored?

newhouse87

event wrote: »

How many goals do you think he should have scored?

He has missed a few sitters, its an opinion he can be more clinical, you dont agree, thats ok.

event

Yeah of course.
But just saying he should have scored more, it doesnt really add much.
Sure every striker could have scored more, every keeper could have saved more.

I dont think people are realistic at all when it comes to Bamford. I dont think the realise the distance he covers in comparison to other strikers. He is rarely replaced or rotated so after 70 mins he is knackered in some games. He is going to be tired and snatch at chances. He takes loads of shots from stupid angles at times but when you play on the break like we do sometimes, thats what you do. He also gets very few touches in a game. When you look at attackers, there are 41 other attackers in the PL this year with more touches than him.

newhouse87

event wrote: »

Yeah of course.
But just saying he should have scored more, it doesnt really add much.
Sure every striker could have scored more, every keeper could have saved more.

I dont think people are realistic at all when it comes to Bamford. I dont think the realise the distance he covers in comparison to other strikers. He is rarely replaced or rotated so after 70 mins he is knackered in some games. He is going to be tired and snatch at chances. He takes loads of shots from stupid angles at times but when you play on the break like we do sometimes, thats what you do. He also gets very few touches in a game. When you look at attackers, there are 41 other attackers in the PL this year with more touches than him.

i have been pleasantly surprised this year, but i want the team to constantly improve and my fear is that we need a more prolific striker, if he keeps up this from great, but i don't think he will, was also not a fan of buying rodrigo, as i said earlier i would have preferred watkins, rodrigo is way too slow and we knew beforehand he was not prolific, part of my reason for not being happy with orta, spending 30m on a player who i reckon will add nothing, hope im wrong obviously.

event

Yeah thats a fair point. I think more goals need to come from elsewhere. We need more output from wingers and for all the attacking he does, Klich goal return is criminal

Seathrun66

newhouse87 wrote: »

only 2 set pieces scored against us in a game and you don't see that as a major problem, as stats have proven we have worst defensive record from set pieces, i, meslier needs to come out for more.

I do see that as a problem. I was responding to the poster who said that a free-kick or corner against us nearly guaranteed a goal which was daft. I thus showed the stats from Arsenal and Everton where we didn't concede.

Meslier, as with other goalies, often gets hemmed in by opposing players, a deliberate tactic given his height.
We've also been without 1.90m Koch for a few games and 1.86m Llorente for most of the season.

Finally we're joint worst, with Leicester, not out on our own. And Arsenal are best if you wish for us to swap places with them.

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Yeah thats a fair point. I think more goals need to come from elsewhere. We need more output from wingers and for all the attacking he does, Klich goal return is criminal

Agreed. At this stage you'd expect more input from elsewhere but I believe that's coming. Rodrigo and Raphinha have not had a proper run of games due to illness and MB delaying their full introduction. I think they'll be contributing circa 10 each this season and I expect us to bee hitting the net with more regularity soon.

Our games against Newcastle, Burnley and WBA should see an increase in intensity and attacks. The defences of those sides are there to be exploited and I believe we'll come away with minimum seven pints and a half-dozen goals. Feel free to lambast me in a fortnight if that's not the case.

Kingp35

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Finally we're joint worst, with Leicester, not out on our own. And Arsenal are best if you wish for us to swap places with them.

We are the worst. Both Leicester and Sheff Utd have conceded 6 from set pieces, we've conceded 7.

I agree with you though, we haven't had our first choice cb partnership playing so I'm hopeful things will improve when they start together.

As for Harrison, we've played 12 games in the Premier League this season which is more than enough to judge him on and he looks out of his depth to me. Especially if we are aiming for a top 12 finish as some posters think we're capable of.

Kingp35

Kingp35 wrote: »

As for Harrison, we've played 12 games in the Premier League this season which is more than enough to judge him on and he looks out of his depth to me. Especially if we are aiming for a top 12 finish as some posters think we're capable of.

It seems a bit arbitrary, to say Leeds are aiming for top 12, in which case x, y and z are not good enough.

If someone felt we are aiming for top 1 or 2, they could say not one of them is good enough.

If someone felt Leeds are aiming to stay up, as they seem capable of that, one could say all of them look good enough.