Leeds United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2020/2021

Jimmy Two Times

Not much more to add, OGS had a plan, a fairly simple plan given that man for man his players are better than ours. Press, win the ball, pull KP out of the middle and break quickly.

Unfortunately we played right into his hands on the first two goals,losing the ball when Klich was supporting the man in possession and McTominay accelerating into the space he left. We know Klich isn't quick so no chance he gets back.

I'd be more disappointed in the 3rd and 4th goals to be honest.

It would have taken everything to go our way to get a result against that team. However, I can't help agreeing with whoever said that it might have been a plan to take it handy for the first 20 mins,not give them the option to execute their game plan and see where it got us. Maybe play a bit of Jack Charlton football.

10000maniacs

The general consensus on most social media outlets is that we should have started in defensive mode and hung back for a good 20 minutes to settle the team down. Maybe ManU would have gotten increasingly frustrated (like they did with other teams at home this season) and then we would switch to Bielsa-ball mode later in the game and hopefully sucker punch them.

is_that_so

U23s banged in 7(SEVEN) against Fulham. Seven different scorers.

NuckChorris1

A disappointing result but that's how we play and that is going to happen again. Annoying that it's against ManU but maybe for league position better than if it was against a direct rival, like Arsenal. Some thoughts:

- We can't sit back and play tight. Out defence was Dallas, Ayling, Cooper and Alioski. That isn't going to hold out against ManU or any top 10 Prem team for too long. Dallas and Alioski's strengths are in attack and possession.

- Meslier is great for his age and will continue to improve. No need to touch him.

- Be careful what you wish for when you want Bielsa to change from his natural tactics. WBA wanted change and solid defence with Big Sam and got spanked 0-3 and had only one shot all game. We don't have the manager or personnel to sit tight at any stage.

- Since when has McTominay played like that??? Don't think anyone saw that coming!

- I don't see us doing anything in January window but I'm sure Orta is already working on summer transfers. A top 6 quality left back has to be top of the hitlist. Would make a huge difference.

Seathrun66

Carcharodon wrote: »

Yep, the talk of Europe was absolutely madness, there are some really delusional fans out there
I posted here during the week that we could easily lose 5-2 to United, it’s just the nature of the beast.
It just sucks that it was United that did that to us

I beg to differ. We got embarrassed yesterday but we've been unlucky in not picking up more points at stages of this season. We may pick up six points before the end of December and I still see us ending up in the top ten, not far off Europa spots. We also have the type of play that can beat any team on the day so I fancy us for a cup run. We could even end up in the Europa cup as the losing finalist.

So, despite the mess yesterday at a guess I'd put us down to finish 9th. Our style of play will win us more games than we lose. Be aware also that we've already had to face all the major teams bar Spurs. Our schedule has not been easy.


.

Damo 2k9

Basically the same as everyone else here, we were absolutely thumped but them countering our style of play left it wide open for them to do it to us. Klich at fault for the first two, he never really recovered after that.

Would any of you try Rodrigo up top? Alongside Bamford perhaps? (Dont shoot me...)

Hopefully we see Llorente back in the squad soon.

Hijpo

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Basically the same as everyone else here, we were absolutely thumped but them countering our style of play left it wide open for them to do it to us. Klich at fault for the first two, he never really recovered after that.

Would any of you try Rodrigo up top? Alongside Bamford perhaps? (Dont shoot me...)

Hopefully we see Llorente back in the squad soon.

Hard to call that given the formation we play. We keep our wingers wide, that opens up even more of the midfield or makes us really narrow if we move Rodrigo forward.

Carcharodon

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I beg to differ. We got embarrassed yesterday but we've been unlucky in not picking up more points at stages of this season. We may pick up six points before the end of December and I still see us ending up in the top ten, not far off Europa spots. We also have the type of play that can beat any team on the day so I fancy us for a cup run. We could even end up in the Europa cup as the losing finalist.

So, despite the mess yesterday at a guess I'd put us down to finish 9th. Our style of play will win us more games than we lose. Be aware also that we've already had to face all the major teams bar Spurs. Our schedule has not been easy.


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Each to their own but I would also beg to differ. Some fans like to view things through a different lense and over hype the teams ability and underplay their faults.

I believe out position in the table now is a fair reflection of our teams ability, lower half of mid table is about where we are at and the table doesn’t lie.
We can make excuses with schedules, injures, style of play but it is what it is and we are where we are, that’s the fact of the matter.
Avoid relegation battle and Iam a happy man.

Seathrun66

Carcharodon wrote: »

Each to their own but I would also beg to differ. Some fans like to view things through a different lense and over hype the teams ability and underplay their faults.

I believe out position in the table now is a fair reflection of our teams ability, lower half of mid table is about where we are at and the table doesn’t lie.
We can make excuses with schedules, injures, style of play but it is what it is and we are where we are, that’s the fact of the matter.
Avoid relegation battle and Iam a happy man.

I agree with much of that though I think that injuries in central defence have killed us recently and a couple of refereeing decisions haven't helped. I also expect us to have a stronger second half of the season. I probably am over-optimistic but hey, let's hope I'm right.

Either way I don't believe there's any chance of us being dragged into a relegation battle. There are simply too many poor sides in the division.

whiterebel

NuckChorris1 wrote: »

- We can't sit back and play tight. Out defence was Dallas, Ayling, Cooper and Alioski. That isn't going to hold out against ManU or any top 10 Prem team for too long. Dallas and Alioski's strengths are in attack and possession.

There are worse sides have done exactly that.That back 4 can all pass. I'm not talking about parking the bus, but play it sensibly until we see how the game spans out. It showed yesterday that you can't have a 50m gap between defence and front line and get away with it.

Look at Leicester v Spurs on MoTD - wait for their chance, hit them twice and punish them.

The "he should do this, he should do that" is a bit futile.

He's just been voted the 3rd best coach in the world. He has spent 40 years thinking about this stuff at a level we will never comprehend. He has taken average Championship players and turned them around, no one thought Klich and Dallas would play at this level, that Bamford would be one of the top scorers in the top flight, that Phillips would be an English international etc. etc.

Of course he is not above question. But the idea that he will change his philosophy to tighten up at the back, or bring bigger players in for set pieces...it's a bit like fellows in the local golf club saying Rory McIlroy is great but his swing could improve. I mean, it's not invalid, but it's not like he's going to change a lifetime of work because of a bad day or month.

event

10000maniacs wrote: »

The general consensus on most social media outlets is that we should have started in defensive mode and hung back for a good 20 minutes to settle the team down. Maybe ManU would have gotten increasingly frustrated (like they did with other teams at home this season) and then we would switch to Bielsa-ball mode later in the game and hopefully sucker punch them.

Social media and hindsight.

Christ

Jimmy Two Times

Just watched Burnley beat Wolves. Impressive defensive display from Burnley. Won’t be easy for us.

Seathrun66

I'm trying to be objective about last night yet worry that my dislike of MU clouds my judgement of them. I can however appreciate when they do stuff well and they did yesterday but I wasn't overly impressed with them. Had they not scored two such early goals would it have been different? Probably not but I don't see them in the class of other teams we've played. How do others rate our fourteen opponents thus far?

For me it's:

1. Chelsea
2. Leicester
3. Liverpool

event

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I'm trying to be objective about last night yet worry that my dislike of MU clouds my judgement of them. I can however appreciate when they do stuff well and they did yesterday but I wasn't overly impressed with them. Had they not scored two such early goals would it have been different? Probably not but I don't see them in the class of other teams we've played. How do others rate our fourteen opponents thus far?

For me it's:

1. Chelsea
2. Leicester
3. Liverpool

Its weird. When we beat teams we make them look ordinary and when we lose we make them look amazing.

I dont rate Chelsea at all tbh but were good vs us

Seathrun66

event wrote: »

Its weird. When we beat teams we make them look ordinary and when we lose we make them look amazing.

I dont rate Chelsea at all tbh but were good vs us

Yeah, I should have been clearer. I'm not talking about their entire seasons, only their performance against us. We got through the MU, Liverpool and other defences but seemed to be running into a wall at Chelsea. The only game this season where I had no complaints about us getting nothing.

10000maniacs

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Yeah, I should have been clearer. I'm not talking about their entire seasons, only their performance against us. We got through the MU, Liverpool and other defences but seemed to be running into a wall at Chelsea. The only game this season where I had no complaints about us getting nothing.

What were your complaints that we got nothing against MU? You agreed with/thanked "event" that social media got it wrong about the gaping holes in Leeds defence, or at most they were only correct in hindsight.

10000maniacs

event wrote: »

Social media and hindsight.

Christ

Ill give you something that's not hindsight. If we play the same way against Spurs as we did on Sunday, we will get spanked.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

The "he should do this, he should do that" is a bit futile.

He's just been voted the 3rd best coach in the world. He has spent 40 years thinking about this stuff at a level we will never comprehend. He has taken average Championship players and turned them around, no one thought Klich and Dallas would play at this level, that Bamford would be one of the top scorers in the top flight, that Phillips would be an English international etc. etc.

Of course he is not above question. But the idea that he will change his philosophy to tighten up at the back, or bring bigger players in for set pieces...it's a bit like fellows in the local golf club saying Rory McIlroy is great but his swing could improve. I mean, it's not invalid, but it's not like he's going to change a lifetime of work because of a bad day or month.

Mostly agree here except for defence, the best possible players need to be on the pitch. That has not happened so far and it's there that the limitations of some have been shown up. Cooper is really the 3rd choice CB and Ayling is really a RB. Even so smartening up on the likes of set pieces is not beyond all of them but it's a very steep learning curve.

event

10000maniacs wrote: »

Ill give you something that's not hindsight. If we play the same way against Spurs as we did on Sunday, we will get spanked.

Yes thats true. Stevie Wonder could see that.

Here's another one though. We will play the same way as we did on Sunday

We should do what Southampton did, go and have more possession than shots. Oh wait they were beat 5-2

Lets do what newcastle did. Have less shots and possession and hope we get a dodgy VAR decision in the 97th minute. Man u did the same but they got beat 6-2.

Lets do what Brighton, Burnley and West Brom did. How did that end up?

Id rather we play the exact same way in the next 4 league games than try to change it up for the spurs one.

We play WBA at 18:00 on the 29th. So with us having played on the 27th, the 30th will be a light session & recovery. Then we have 2 days to prep for spurs. You think in those two days MB has enough time to completely change the way we play? And able to do it to a standard that a patched up defence can withstand 2 of the best strikers in the league?

Seathrun66

10000maniacs wrote: »

What were your complaints that we got nothing against MU? You agreed with/thanked "event" that social media got it wrong about the gaping holes in Leeds defence, or at most they were only correct in hindsight.

Can you please clarify the second sentence, it's really unclear. In terms of the MU game I thought their penalty was dodgy, the loss of possession was poor and our shooting was off. We weren't overawed by them despite the scoreline. However, Leicester out-thought us and Chelsea outplayed us to such an extent that we could have no complaints about the losses. We didn't deserve to draw or win at OT but the team that beat us is far from the best we've played this season.

event

An article from The Athletic today, Swansea fan

This is how this started — a tweet that I posted on Sunday evening, shortly after the final whistle blew at Old Trafford, where Manchester United put six past their bitter rivals from across the Pennines.

https://twitter.com/stujames75/status/1340730373236527104

The second sentence provided some personal context — a season spent taking my son to watch his team playing survival football in the Premier League. Swansea City’s goal tally in top-flight home games up until the end of December 2017 read: 0, 0, 1, 2, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1.

We went to Wembley during that time to watch Swansea play Tottenham Hotspur in the league. It finished goalless and we stood to clap the team off, along with 3,000 others in the away end. As we spilled out of the stadium that Saturday night, it crossed my mind that we had just been celebrating our team picking up a point despite the fact they didn’t register a single shot on target in 90 minutes and barely got in their opponents’ half (Spurs had 75 per cent possession).

That’s not really what I signed up for when I started traipsing all around the country with a six-year-old.

For some fans, there is nothing wrong with that: it’s results over style every time, all about the league position and a stay-up-at-all costs mentality, even if that means starting off every season in the Premier League with the sole objective of getting to 40 points by whatever means possible. Fair enough if that’s your thing – and I mean that sincerely. But it’s not why I go to football. And never will be.

I want to see my team win, like every other fan, and play at the highest level. But how they go about trying to do that also matters to me. So, while the last thing I wanted was for Swansea to be relegated in 2018, the truth is that the first season back in the Championship under Graham Potter, when the team finished 10th, was far more enjoyable than circling the plughole in the Premier League for two years, grinding out results, willing the clock to go faster on the scoreboard at Wembley, and holding up a white flag every now and again.

All of which brings me to Leeds, whose last two games have produced 78 attempts on goal in total (42 for them) and included being hit for six at Old Trafford, prompting words like “pragmatism” to be bandied about and all sorts of questions asked, including “Should Bielsa change his philosophy?” Bielsa might need to tweak his tactics to improve the Premier League’s leakiest defence, but why would a man who has been coaching for 28 years and enjoyed such a rich and distinguished career, including success at his current club, change his philosophy? Probably because we love a knee-jerk reaction to a result. “When you lose, everyone questions the style of play. When you win, you are praised for it,” Bielsa said after the Manchester United result.

There will be a few hidings along the way with Bielsa’s approach – but good luck finding a Leeds fan who says that the bad outweighs the good under his management. Leeds beat Newcastle United 5-2 last Wednesday and had 17 attempts on goal at Old Trafford four days later. Trailing 6-2, they were pushing for a third goal in second-half stoppage time, even if that left them open to conceding a seventh.

Is there nothing in between being expansive and pragmatic? Of course there is. But maybe compromising would mean that Leeds are nothing like as free-scoring on other occasions. Would they still win 3-0 at Aston Villa, put four past Fulham and score those five against Newcastle?

But this was against Manchester United, I hear you say. I can’t remember too many criticising Bielsa when Leeds took Liverpool on at Anfield on the opening day and lost 4-3.

“This team… I don’t know what they are,” said Gary Neville, the Sky Sports summariser, as Leeds passed the ball around early in the second half on Sunday. “They just basically think that they can take on every single other opponent one for one. It’s a training session that we used to do as kids, for fitness mainly, but never as a style. It’s brilliant. It’s brilliant to watch.

“They’re all brave on the ball, they all take the ball, they pass to each other even when they’re marked. They all make angles, they never shirk responsibility. Every single one of them. That’s why I like them. They’re a courageous team.”

A few seconds later, Rodrigo crossed the ball from the right and Raphinha, ghosting in at the far post, forced David de Gea into a superb point-blank save that stopped Leeds getting it back to 4-2. Neville just started laughing. Later in the evening, when Match Of The Day showed the highlights, the BBC’s commentator Guy Mowbray was also chuckling. “It could easily be 10-8,” he said in the closing stages, and before Jack Harrison missed a sitter. He was right, too.

Leeds have scored 24 league goals this season, which is double Arsenal’s tally and three times as many as Burnley’s. Yes, they’re like a sieve at the other end, but this is a club four months into their first season back in the Premier League for 16 years.

Look through the 14 players who featured for them at Old Trafford and Patrick Bamford was their most experienced in the Premier League. Bamford, for the record, had started four Premier League games before this season. After Bamford, it’s Liam Cooper, whose last game at this level prior to the beginning of the season was for Hull City a decade ago.

It’s a wild ride under Bielsa and getting thumped 6-2 by the club you love to hate isn’t any supporter’s idea of a good day, but strap me in and I’ll happily buy a ticket to watch him manage my team every week. And that — buying a ticket — is something that people (pundits and a few others working in the media as well as armchair supporters) overlook at times.

The real fans — not the Twitter keyboard warriors — are paying for the pleasure to go to watch in a normal world (or paying for the pleasure to stream in my case now). For them, or for us, the match day is often an escape from the banality, or the stress, of everyday life. We wouldn’t mind being entertained now and again.

Indeed, when people wonder why some Newcastle supporters aren’t happy when their team is closer in points to the Champions League places than the relegation zone or, as was the case a couple of years ago, say that West Brom fans “should be careful what they wish for” when they got frustrated with the football under Tony Pulis, they’re missing the point.

We don’t think like pundits, we don’t think like owners and we don’t think like managers. We think like supporters.

For many of us (not everyone, of course) it’s not all about the next TV deal or trying to finish 14th in the Premier League. It’s about getting some satisfaction from watching our team for 90 minutes.

In fact, if you asked supporters of Newcastle and West Brom about their most enjoyable seasons over the last five years, my guess is that a number would probably say the one when they won promotion from the Championship. None of which is to say that they would want to go back there now.

To be clear, there’s not a right or a wrong way to play, but what I will say — and I imagine that there are fans at Premier League clubs who will relate to this — is when it’s all about the result and no importance is given to the process, you’d better keep picking up points because it’s a hard sell to supporters when you’re losing and serving up bland football.

For now, I’ll look forward to watching Leeds whenever they’re on TV, for all the reasons Neville highlighted during the game.

Some will call Bielsa’s team fearless. Some will call them naive. I’ll call it entertainment and wonder how much more fun watching Swansea would have been had Bielsa signed on the dotted line when club officials went to meet him in Argentina a few years ago.

is_that_so

This would be a nice final position!

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/soccer-predictions/premier-league/

event

Liverpool 8 points clear of city but city more likely to win the league?

event

Happy christmas anyway folks, doubt I'll be on too much over the break. We disagree a good bit but I think we can all agree that its good to be back for Xmas

Zaph

Didn't see the game, but just heard Lampard being interviewed after losing to Arsenal. The difference between him and Bielsa is night and day, blaming the players and criticising their performance, essentially taking no responsibility for the loss himself. Marcelo, on the other hand, would be talking about how he got it wrong, not the players, even if later in the dressing room it might be a different story. No wonder they'll do anything he asks of them, his loyalty to the players and refusal to criticise them in public is one of the things that makes him a top manager and shows Lampard up for what he really is, a petulant kid playing real life Football Manager.

Seathrun66

Zaph wrote: »

Didn't see the game, but just heard Lampard being interviewed after losing to Arsenal. The difference between him and Bielsa is night and day, blaming the players and criticising their performance, essentially taking no responsibility for the loss himself. Marcelo, on the other hand, would be talking about how he got it wrong, not the players, even if later in the dressing room it might be a different story. No wonder they'll do anything he asks of them, his loyalty to the players and refusal to criticise them in public is one of the things that makes him a top manager and shows Lampard up for what he really is, a petulant kid playing real life Football Manager.

A near-essential ingredient for a top-class manager though Jose lacks it. Ferguson, Shankly, Revie, Paisley, etc all abided by that Godfather ethic of not letting anyone outside the family know what you're thinking. It also displays class when you allow the buck to stop with you.

Carcharodon

I think Leeds fans should move past Frank Lampard, it’s time !
See y’all at 4am my time...Iam a sucker for punishment

Today is a big one.

Burnley have finished 7th and 10th in recent seasons, have a manager who is easily one of the shrewdest (even if the football is grim) and has faced a hundred top flight games, and a club that saw Leeds as a feeder club, taking its best players in 2016 and 2017...

Mushy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Today is a big one.

Burnley have finished 7th and 10th in recent seasons, have a manager who is easily one of the shrewdest (even if the football is grim) and has faced a hundred top flight games, and a club that saw Leeds as a feeder club, taking its best players in 2016 and 2017...

Be great to get the 3 points today

Carcharodon

I expect a big reaction today by the players after last weeks embarrassment, respect to Burnley and what they have achieved but this is a game we need to be winning. Lose this and we get sucked towards the bottom

purple hands

Well that's a decent start

Mushy

Great penalty

event

Kelvin has started at centre half, playing sweeper between Ayling and Struijk. Dallas has gone back to midfield

stryker mcqueen

Blessed there, poor Ben Mee gets pole axed by Meslier and we get a free kick

Seathrun66

Another set-piece issue. Can't believe we got a free-kick there. Poor refereeing but I'm happy with it.

Hijpo

stryker mcqueen wrote: »

Blessed there, poor Ben Mee gets pole axed by Meslier and we get a free kick

Not sure why he felt the need to come for that

Mushy

Got away with that one big time

Seathrun66

Hijpo wrote: »

Not sure why he felt the need to come for that

Probably because so many fans have been complaining about him not doing so at set-pieces.

Zaph

That was a perfectly good goal, we got lucky there. Very poor handling from Meslier.

Hijpo

Mushy wrote: »

Got away with that one big time

Struijk doesn't want the ball. Literally ran away from it a minute ago instead of giving Alioski a run.

Hijpo

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Probably because so many fans have been complaining about him not doing so at set-pieces.

Well he doubled down on that haha

I suppose the positive is that he was strong enough to go through Ben Mee and didn't just bounce off him.

event

Hijpo wrote: »

Struijk doesn't want the ball. Literally ran away from it a minute ago instead of giving Alioski a run.

I dont like to be critical of young players, but I dont see much in Struijk yet tbh

Jesus thats a bad miss

10000maniacs

Good start but Klich wasteful with his shots.

event

Sitter by Rodrigo

stryker mcqueen

We should be out of sight here

Seathrun66

Seven shots is pretty low for us this season.

They're dangerous but I feel they, like Newcastle, will tire and get opened up. Pablo soon please.

Carcharodon

Strange game, we have created chances but got away with that disallowed goal, I think a better side or if Burnley had more pace, would punish us more.
I think the Leeds players will know that they got to do a bit better in the second half if they want to win this, Meslier has been a weee but erratic

purple hands

Just give the ball to Raphinha.

Sloppy enough at times, fortunate with Meslier charging out like Kiko at his worst. But could be three up...Harrison needs to take a touch and finish, Rodrigo at 27 million should also bury that cross.

Seathrun66

Not seen us lose possession so easily in any game thus far. Unforced errors every couple of minutes in our own half. A better team would have punished us.