Cork council merger plans to be axed but extension of city boundary recommended

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

Oh, it's because he's Scottish. Now we see your true colours. At least you're not doing the ''its the D4meeja thing'', although your hero Alf smiddy has gone down that road.

Perhaps the government should have asked your father in law, and got him to decide! Now that is comedy.

Damn
I'm rumbled. I'm really a scottophobe...that's what's this is all about... Never did get over the whole Scots plantation thing...

You're right though, perhaps they should ask the people in the areas for their input.,. all local democracy like...

"My hero Smiddy"
Oh dear.


2/10. Must try harder.

namloc1980

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I've a funny idea you've no idea of the difference in service delivery between the City + County!

So we should merge them? That horse has bolted.
(City and County usually have regard to each other's CPDs and policies for sites straddling boundary, plus we've a South West regional planning forum

http://www.southernassembly.ie/uploads/general-files/http---www.southernassembly_.ie-images-uploads-SWRA_Planning_Guidelines_.pdf

And I've a very good idea you've no idea what you're talking about. Anyway enlighten us as to how people's lives would suddenly disimprove going from County to city??

Roger Hassenforder

namloc1980 wrote: »

And I've a very good idea you've no idea what you're talking about. Anyway enlighten us as to how people's lives would suddenly disimprove going from County to city??

Ref to my previous post.
With a link and all to back up.
Evidence if you will, support to any point. It's how I prefer to discuss things, with reason and evidence rather that 'ifs buts maybes and hysterical nonsense.

Cork County Council performs better in almost every metric (bar number of books loaned IIRC, might be another) that the NOAC/ LGMA* use to monitor and benchmark the delivery of services by local authorities.

In plain English, that means they're better at delivering services.
QED.

(They might well be crap compared to others ( indeed I've had issues with them) but they're not as crap as City Council.
So who should I prefer to see as the dominant LA in Cork?

maybe all you can see of Cork is the City. Cork is way more that a rather small City, huddled on an island of the coast of Europe. Maybe I just see the bigger picture of what Cork is.





*youve no idea do you...

namloc1980

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ref to my previous post.
With a link and all to back up.
Evidence if you will, support to any point. It's how I prefer to discuss things, with reason and evidence rather that 'ifs buts maybes and hysterical nonsense.

Cork County Council performs better in almost every metric (bar number of books loaned IIRC, might be another) that the NOAC/ LGMA* use to monitor and benchmark the delivery of services by local authorities.

In plain English, that means they're better at delivering services.
QED.

(They might well be crap compared to others ( indeed I've had issues with them) but they're not as crap as City Council.
So who should I prefer to see as the dominant LA in Cork?

maybe all you can see of Cork is the City. Cork is way more that a rather small City, huddled on an island of the coast of Europe. Maybe I just see the bigger picture of what Cork is.





*youve no idea do you...

Your previous posts were full of nonsense and demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of the situation. But your father in law, he's got it sussed.

Roger Hassenforder

namloc1980 wrote: »

Your previous posts were full of nonsense and demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of the situation. But your father in law, he's got it sussed.

You must know him, he's never fcuking wrong.
Ever.

Water John

Even when he told you, not to marry his daughter!!!

Some very aggressive posts on here, defending the City Council. There plaudits have never certainly been earned.

Roger Hassenforder

Water John wrote: »

Even when he told you, not to marry his daughter!!!

He pointed at her mother and whispered "dont do it.
Run"

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

mire wrote: »

Oh, it's because he's Scottish. Now we see your true colours. At least you're not doing the ''its the D4meeja thing'', although your hero Alf smiddy has gone down that road.

Perhaps the government should have asked your father in law, and got him to decide! Now that is comedy.

Damn
I'm rumbled. I'm really a scottophobe...that's what's this is all about... Never did get over the whole Scots plantation thing...

You're right though, perhaps they should ask the people in the areas for their input.,. all local democracy like...

"My hero Smiddy"
Oh dear.


2/10. Must try harder.

You introduced his nationality. Why did you do so?

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

You introduced his nationality. Why did you do so?

I didn't introduce anything.
I clarified something.
Get your facts together.

1/10 attempted charge of racism.
Abject. Must try harder.

Roger Hassenforder

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/poll-most-cork-tds-and-senators-against-merger-reports-recommendations-458285.html

An overwhelming majority of Cork’s 22 senators and TDs oppose the recommendations of the Mackinnon report to extend the city’s boundary.

Nothing like the fear of losing ones seat to focus the mind

KCAccidental

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/poll-most-cork-tds-and-senators-against-merger-reports-recommendations-458285.html

An overwhelming majority of Cork’s 22 senators and TDs oppose the recommendations of the Mackinnon report to extend the city’s boundary.

Nothing like the fear of losing ones seat to focus the mind

yeah, looking forward to seeing Jonathan O'Brien on my doorstep soon...

JupiterKid

This thread is just going around in circles and circles with arguments on both sides that are filled with emotive guff and little rational, sensible reflection.

For Cork as a city to successfully develop and grow, the city boundary should be expended significantly. No ifs or buts, it makes sense for the city, it makes sense for the region and it makes sense for the people of Cork.

Now just get on with it.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I didn't introduce anything.
I clarified something.
Get your facts together.

1/10 attempted charge of racism.
Abject. Must try harder.

"I think the people of Ballincollig should have a say whether they're City or County, rather than a Scottish planner hired in to put manners on the County, and a few City public representatives they had no part in mandating, shouting from the proverbial rooftops what's best for them."

I never inferred your comment was any way racist, that'd besilly; but here is your quote. Why did you feel the need to highlight the chairperson's nationality?

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/poll-most-cork-tds-and-senators-against-merger-reports-recommendations-458285.html

An overwhelming majority of Cork’s 22 senators and TDs oppose the recommendations of the Mackinnon report to extend the city’s boundary.

Nothing like the fear of losing ones seat to focus the mind

I'm not sure that headline reflects the content of the article. Reading the individual responses, very few oppose the boundary extension principle; I suspect a fudge will emerge though.

thejuggler

mire wrote: »

"I think the people of Ballincollig should have a say whether they're City or County, rather than a Scottish planner hired in to put manners on the County, and a few City public representatives they had no part in mandating, shouting from the proverbial rooftops what's best for them."

Not wishing to wade into this 'debate' but just wanted to mention that I've lived in Ballincollig for almost 20 years and would hope and prefer to be under the remit of Cork City Council than the current arrangement. Without doubt there is good community spirit in Ballincollig - there is a sizable group of tidy towns volunteers who spend their weekends and weekday evenings cleaning and tidying the town.
Its a shame that the county council staff who are paid to look after this task cannot do so without relying on volunteers to pick up the slack.

You could also perhaps ask anyone who commutes by bus between Cork City and Ballincollig if they would rather pay a city bus fare rate instead of the current 'county rate' (€4.20 single compared to €2.20 for a city fare).
You might find that not everyone is Ballincollig says 'No'

The current 'keep Ballincollig county campaign' is so blatantly organised by the county council it's quite embarrassing. From what I hear the turnout for their 'public meetings' has been poor too

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

"I think the people of Ballincollig should have a say whether they're City or County, rather than a Scottish planner hired in to put manners on the County, and a few City public representatives they had no part in mandating, shouting from the proverbial rooftops what's best for them."

I never inferred your comment was any way racist, that'd besilly; but here is your quote. Why did you feel the need to highlight the chairperson's nationality?

You're labouring your point, but making little progress. I didn't bring nationality into this. Your ducks are out of line.

I don't care if he's nonbinary, transgender, AfricanAmerican, Jewish, member of the travelling community dwarf, currently identifying as a sloth with a disability. (Should be a few triggers there for you)

That's said, he is a planner from Scotland. Is this an issue for you?

mire wrote: »

I'm not sure that headline reflects the content of the article. Reading the individual responses, very few oppose the boundary extension principle; I suspect a fudge will emerge though.

Its the MacKinnon boundary it's discussing, as we are.
22 of them are against it, but most agree an expansion is needed. As we do.

Bring astute you've probably realised this takes a lot of the wind out of the City sails. Party hacks will have been having a word in certain ears, we might expect some more tempered language from the combatants, word like "negotiated" "agreement" , "best interests of city and county" and a fudge emerge where both sides can claim a victory.

An expansion along the lines of what the County proposed with a few bits bolted on, maybe the airport and Glanmire.
Ballincollig Blarney and Carrigaline staying put. Little island/Carrigtohill? Forget it.

Roger Hassenforder

thejuggler wrote: »

Not wishing to wade into this 'debate' but ...

Dive right in - the waters lovely!

Water John

Again to bore people, nobody has said, the boundary should not be extended.

Not sure what size print that needs to be put in, or what font, to have it register.

Simply now, the City sees the McK Report as the finishing point, they having put out a very large map themselves, originally.
The County, on the other hand, are starting from the present boundary as their starting point. Fully accepting an extension, and have produced their own map.

So now we can say it will fall somewhere between the County version and the McK map. Though personnaly I think the County version yields enough, largely.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

You're labouring your point, but making little progress. I didn't bring nationality into this. Your ducks are out of line.

I don't care if he's nonbinary, transgender, AfricanAmerican, Jewish, member of the travelling community dwarf, currently identifying as a sloth with a disability. (Should be a few triggers there for you)

That's said, he is a planner from Scotland. Is this an issue for you?





Its the MacKinnon boundary it's discussing, as we are.
22 of them are against it, but most agree an expansion is needed. As we do.

Bring astute you've probably realised this takes a lot of the wind out of the City sails. Party hacks will have been having a word in certain ears, we might expect some more tempered language from the combatants, word like "negotiated" "agreement" , "best interests of city and county" and a fudge emerge where both sides can claim a victory.

An expansion along the lines of what the County proposed with a few bits bolted on, maybe the airport and Glanmire.
Ballincollig Blarney and Carrigaline staying put. Little island/Carrigtohill? Forget it.

I agree with almost everything you have said here (apart from your denial about bringing the nationality of the chairperson into the debate; because you clearly did - unless of course I have misquoted you).

You're probably right about a negotiated settlement, and the likely change in tone. The sad thing is is that it will be 20 years out of date, far too conservative and misses the point spectacularly about the need for an appropriate boundary for the state's second city.

Anyway, that's realpolitik. It's a pity that the issue will be decided not on the basis of evidence and best practice. This is how public policy works I guess.

On reflection, it is somewhat of a relief that the idea of a merger is dead; only two of the polled 22 politicians are still in favor of this.

satanta99

I think it is clear which side of the debate the Examiner is taking:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/gaping-divide-opens-on-cork-citys-boundary-extension-458237.html

To me it just looks like they are trying to manufacture a divide between urban and rural politicians.

The sooner this expansion boundary is agreed the better. The amount of grandstanding and scheming going on is infuriating.

Reputable Rog

This time tomorrow....

Water John

Michael Creed, once again, sits on the fence. Must be sore, at this stage.

Don't see bias in The Examiner.

The reading that Carrigtowhill was never going to be in, is correct. A simple exercise in starting big, knowing you will have to give in some areas.

Reputable Rog

Water John wrote: »

Michael Creed, once again, sits on the fence. Must be sore, at this stage.

Don't see bias in The Examiner.

The reading that Carrigtowhill was never going to be in, is correct. A simple exercise in starting big, knowing you will have to give in some areas.

Creed is a rat and a useless prick of a politician, if it doesn't concern Macroom he doesn't want to know.
Opportunist however, probably has his eye on elected Mayor of Cork position eventually.

Reputable Rog

At a special meeting of Cork County Council (today 4th September), elected members were briefed in full on the current status of the ongoing deliberations on the proposed alteration of the boundary of Cork City Council.

The members highlighted the fact that communities from across the length and breadth of Cork county have expressed grave concerns at the impact that the Mackinnon report would have, if implemented, on the future delivery of services across the county. Councillors complimented the various communities for expressing their views so clearly and so vociferously.

The County Mayor, Cllr Declan Hurley commented:

"Cork County Council is unanimous in its view that the lack of public consultation and engagement with communities up until this point has been deplorable. It has resulted in a situation whereby the process that is being proposed by Government to expand the City boundary has come as a major surprise to communities. Communities cannot understand how such a deeply flawed approach was taken given the seriousness and magnitude of the situation".

The County Mayor continued:

"There is serious annoyance and frustration in the County Council chamber at the fact that there has been no response whatsoever from the Minister in relation to the Council's queries in relation to the role and remit of the Implementation Oversight Group. We are also extremely disappointed with the rejection of the Council's recent offer to Cork City Council. This indicates to me that the City Council appear to be unwilling to engage in any discussionson the County's proposal."

"Notwithstanding this, Cork County Council has always valued the views of communities and other key stakeholders. We are committed to listening to these views, considering them, and acting upon them insofar as is possible. At today's meeting, the Council agreed to advance matters by deciding – unanimously – to submit a formal boundary alteration proposal to Cork City Council for its consideration. This will be a statutory proposal, and is being done in accordance with Section 29 of the Local Government Act 1991. This approach provides for public consultation whereby all stakeholders – including community groups from across Cork – can have their say.”

“In addition, I can also confirm that Cork County Council has decided to seek immediate advice with regard to the legal options available to it in the event that the Minister proceeds to alter the boundary in line with the Mackinnon report."

"We feel very strongly about this as a Council. We have a duty to represent the interests of people from across all of County Cork, from Castletownbere to Youghal, from Charleville to Carrigaline, and all areas in between. Common sense must prevail. I am committed to making every effort to ensure that whatever changes are made are in the best interests of all of Cork".

The Four Goldmines awaits.

Water John

I reckon that is political pushback on FG. Formal offer is clever strategy.


Michael Creed referred to is a TD and Minister. Thus he cannot become Mayor. It's his namesake cousin, sits on the County Council.

Reputable Rog

Water John wrote: »

I reckon that is political pushback on FG. Formal offer is clever strategy.


Michael Creed referred to is a TD and Minister. Thus he cannot become Mayor. It's his namesake cousin, sits on the County Council.

I am aware who he is, what he is and the restrictions with regard to political positions, but in time should such a position become available as propsed in MacKinnon and is constantly talked about for the Dublin region he may be eligible.

I know Michael 'the beard' Creed as well as he is a decent guy.

Water John

That should then ensure, nothing will happen in the whole of Cork.

Reputable Rog

Water John wrote: »

That should then ensure, nothing will happen in the whole of Cork.

MacKinnon's a done deal, talk of the city leasing parts of the County Hall to accommodate the extra staff.
May be industrial action as well due to staff not happy to accept new conditions of employment with the city.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

satanta99 wrote: »

I think it is clear which side of the debate the Examiner is taking:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/gaping-divide-opens-on-cork-citys-boundary-extension-458237.html

To me it just looks like they are trying to manufacture a divide between urban and rural politicians.

The sooner this expansion boundary is agreed the better. The amount of grandstanding and scheming going on is infuriating.

Can't say I'm a fan of Michael Martin but I'm glad he is pushing this issue for the people of Cork. It has across party support from the City based TD's and everyone agrees that some form of boundary extension is needed.

Time to get down to business and get it implemented. It will definitely have to involve money being promised to the County Council as compensation.

Reputable Rog

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Can't say I'm a fan of Michael Martin but I'm glad he is pushing this issue for the people of Cork. It has across party support from the City based TD's and everyone agrees that some form of boundary extension is needed.

Time to get down to business and get it implemented. It will definitely have to involve money being promised to the County Council as compensation.

Where is this magic money going to come from?