Cork council merger plans to be axed but extension of city boundary recommended

Roger Hassenforder

snotboogie wrote: »

Yes, imagine a city trying to encompass the urban areas contiguous to it, the snobbery!

Aye, almost "entitlement" mentality...
prevalent in this argument.
So when urban areas develop contiguous to the newly created boundary, do they become automatically absorbed and the urban area expands?

Urban creep. Go to Dublin, the real capital, you'll see a sprawling mess. Seems to be what people want...
Even MacKinnon railed against it.

snotboogie

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Aye, almost "entitlement" mentality...
prevalent in this argument.
So when urban areas develop contiguous to the newly created boundary, do they become automatically absorbed and the urban area expands?

Urban creep. Go to Dublin, the real capital, you'll see a sprawling mess. Seems to be what people want...
Even MacKinnon railed against it.

People have explained the reasons for the boundary extension over and over again to you but you don't want to hear it. The very idea of a distinct city and county council is to have separate administrative units for the urban and rural areas of this large county, the current arrangement doesn't meet those requirements since large parts of urban Cork fall outside of the city boundary. The first reason for the expansion is to correct this fault. Secondly Cork has seen urban sprawl outside of the city boundary, the idea of having a larger boundary than the current urban area is to plan for future growth and avoid under planned sprawl over the next 50 years.

There is no such thing as a "land grab" we are all part of the same country, this is a dispute about the administration of a region and doing what is best for the most amount of people possible. The city vs county mentality you have is bizarre. This is also not about looking more respectable in a population dick measuring contest with Dublin, it's simply planning for future administration.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

snotboogie wrote: »

Yes, imagine a city trying to encompass the urban areas contiguous to it, the snobbery!

Aye, almost "entitlement" mentality...
prevalent in this argument.
So when urban areas develop contiguous to the newly created boundary, do they become automatically absorbed and the urban area expands?

Urban creep. Go to Dublin, the real capital, you'll see a sprawling mess. Seems to be what people want...
Even MacKinnon railed against it.

And he would be right to rail against it. One of Cork's advantages is that it has not sprawled like many other cities ;it has managed urban growth through quite a successful satellite town policy. Even though, Ballincollig aside, these towns themselves are very badly designed, and completely car dependent.

Cork County Council are due a lot of credit for this policy. However, the latest rezonings and strategic land reserve designations represent a complete reversal of that sensible approach. The lands proposed are totally inappropriate locations, will lead to suburban sprawl at low densities, undermine the zonings in existing locations within satellite towns and in the rail station locations. It marks the end of the green belt policy for Cork and all of these sites were once what a county council employee told me recently were 'the red line sites' that the county had been resisting for decades but the land owners and a few housebuilders have finally won that argument.

I'm not saying Cork city council wouldn't or won't do the same. But it proves that Cork County councils and Alf smiddys portrayal of them as guarantors and protectors of the green belt and satellite town approach was nonsense. The new zonings are anti planning and will wreck decades of sensible planning around the city. None of the sites can be justified on sustainability grounds, they're just greenfield sites remote from services, public transport, schools, etc.

Reputable Rog

It's clear to me that an expanded city would have prevented the worst of the storm today.

Patrick 1959

Cork city council caretakers for 120,000 people in a city with no room to plan or expand.Cork County Council caretakers for 430,000 people 160,000 County people living not more than 6/7 miles surrounding the City.The remaining 270,000 people the County Council say they can’t look after if they have to give the City a Boundary Extension bigger then the micro mostly built on area they begrudgingly offered the City . The micro extension they offered is roughly the same size they gave in 1965 (city began to outgrow this 20 years later). You can’t have 2 Councils working to there own agendas in this small (Tiny taking in the size of the county)area centered around Cork City you need 1 urban council to work this properly . The county council can than concentrate solely on the 270,000 people left in the county area . This population is larger than most countries . Only Dublin would have a larger population ,next nearest Galway 258,000 .

Patrick 1959

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Aye, almost "entitlement" mentality...
prevalent in this argument.
So when urban areas develop contiguous to the newly created boundary, do they become automatically absorbed and the urban area expands?

Urban creep. Go to Dublin, the real capital, you'll see a sprawling mess. Seems to be what people want...
Even MacKinnon railed against it.

We know, or at least most of us know Dublin is the real capital. “ Cork the real capital “ originated in the early 1970s on an RTÉ political/comedy show called Halls Pictureal weekly. Dubs making fun at cork people expense “ do these cork culchies think they live in a city “ any true cork man would never use this saying.

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

And he would be right to rail against it. One of Cork's advantages is that it has not sprawled like many other cities ;it has managed urban growth through quite a successful satellite town policy. Even though, Ballincollig aside, these towns themselves are very badly designed, and completely car dependent.

Cork County Council are due a lot of credit for this policy. However, the latest rezonings and strategic land reserve designations represent a complete reversal of that sensible approach. The lands proposed are totally inappropriate locations, will lead to suburban sprawl at low densities, undermine the zonings in existing locations within satellite towns and in the rail station locations. It marks the end of the green belt policy for Cork and all of these sites were once what a county council employee told me recently were 'the red line sites' that the county had been resisting for decades but the land owners and a few housebuilders have finally won that argument.

I'm not saying Cork city council wouldn't or won't do the same. But it proves that Cork County councils and Alf smiddys portrayal of them as guarantors and protectors of the green belt and satellite town approach was nonsense. The new zonings are anti planning and will wreck decades of sensible planning around the city. None of the sites can be justified on sustainability grounds, they're just greenfield sites remote from services, public transport, schools, etc.

We've been back and forth going around in circles. Corks planning policies to date haven't worked. MacKinnon has it spot on, yet the satellite town is successful?

We've a doughnut population around a city core, due to low density development where it should be high.
Same as Limerick and Waterford. Solution? Merge them. It was attempted in Cork and thankfully rebuffed. But Maxkinnon is another effective merger, of the good bits of the county, leaving a rump rural county, that outside of the touristy areas is dying.

It seems we're both against low density sprawl. How will expanding the city functional area into the area identified by MacKinnon mitigate this? What will City council do different?

We've created generations of car dependant commuters with wholly inadequate infrastructure. With the identified housing need, where do we build the houses? Further out beyond the current sprawl? More commuters in cars? You keep mentioning the rezoning is poor planning/anti in sustainabile, but where do you think we should build the houses that are needed?

Roger Hassenforder

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

We know, or at least most of us know Dublin is the real capital. “ Cork the real capital “ originated in the early 1970s on an RTÉ political/comedy show called Halls Pictureal weekly. Dubs making fun at cork people expense “ do these cork culchies think they live in a city “ any true cork man would never use this saying.

Pray tell, what else do "true Cork men" say? Or not say?

Patrick 1959

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Pray tell, what else do "true Cork men" say? Or not say?

I wasn’t been smart or anything, it’s that this Dublin saying is very condescending to many cork people. Tupence hapenny looking down on tupence.

Roger Hassenforder

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

I wasn’t been smart or anything, it’s that this Dublin saying is very condescending to many cork people. Tupence hapenny looking down on tupence.

I agree.
I also think we're coding ourselves if we can set ourselves up to be a 'counter' to Dublin. We should aim higher , to be better than Dublin.
Do it differently, smarter.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

mire wrote: »

And he would be right to rail against it. One of Cork's advantages is that it has not sprawled like many other cities ;it has managed urban growth through quite a successful satellite town policy. Even though, Ballincollig aside, these towns themselves are very badly designed, and completely car dependent.

Cork County Council are due a lot of credit for this policy. However, the latest rezonings and strategic land reserve designations represent a complete reversal of that sensible approach. The lands proposed are totally inappropriate locations, will lead to suburban sprawl at low densities, undermine the zonings in existing locations within satellite towns and in the rail station locations. It marks the end of the green belt policy for Cork and all of these sites were once what a county council employee told me recently were 'the red line sites' that the county had been resisting for decades but the land owners and a few housebuilders have finally won that argument.

I'm not saying Cork city council wouldn't or won't do the same. But it proves that Cork County councils and Alf smiddys portrayal of them as guarantors and protectors of the green belt and satellite town approach was nonsense. The new zonings are anti planning and will wreck decades of sensible planning around the city. None of the sites can be justified on sustainability grounds, they're just greenfield sites remote from services, public transport, schools, etc.

We've been back and forth going around in circles. Corks planning policies to date haven't worked. MacKinnon has it spot on, yet the satellite town is successful?

We've a doughnut population around a city core, due to low density development where it should be high.
Same as Limerick and Waterford. Solution? Merge them. It was attempted in Cork and thankfully rebuffed. But Maxkinnon is another effective merger, of the good bits of the county, leaving a rump rural county, that outside of the touristy areas is dying.

It seems we're both against low density sprawl. How will expanding the city functional area into the area identified by MacKinnon mitigate this? What will City council do different?

We've created generations of car dependant commuters with wholly inadequate infrastructure. With the identified housing need, where do we build the houses? Further out beyond the current sprawl? More commuters in cars? You keep mentioning the rezoning is poor planning/anti in sustainabile, but where do you think we should build the houses that are needed?

To answer your last question. Very simply. How about filling up the lands Cork County Council and CASP have already zoned in sensible locations. Near jobs, public transport, schools, town centres, existing infrastructure. This notion that Cork doesn't have enough zoned land is absolute fiction. But the landowners and builders seem to have bent the will of the council.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

mire wrote: »

And he would be right to rail against it. One of Cork's advantages is that it has not sprawled like many other cities ;it has managed urban growth through quite a successful satellite town policy. Even though, Ballincollig aside, these towns themselves are very badly designed, and completely car dependent.

Cork County Council are due a lot of credit for this policy. However, the latest rezonings and strategic land reserve designations represent a complete reversal of that sensible approach. The lands proposed are totally inappropriate locations, will lead to suburban sprawl at low densities, undermine the zonings in existing locations within satellite towns and in the rail station locations. It marks the end of the green belt policy for Cork and all of these sites were once what a county council employee told me recently were 'the red line sites' that the county had been resisting for decades but the land owners and a few housebuilders have finally won that argument.

I'm not saying Cork city council wouldn't or won't do the same. But it proves that Cork County councils and Alf smiddys portrayal of them as guarantors and protectors of the green belt and satellite town approach was nonsense. The new zonings are anti planning and will wreck decades of sensible planning around the city. None of the sites can be justified on sustainability grounds, they're just greenfield sites remote from services, public transport, schools, etc.

We've been back and forth going around in circles. Corks planning policies to date haven't worked. MacKinnon has it spot on, yet the satellite town is successful?

We've a doughnut population around a city core, due to low density development where it should be high.
Same as Limerick and Waterford. Solution? Merge them. It was attempted in Cork and thankfully rebuffed. But Maxkinnon is another effective merger, of the good bits of the county, leaving a rump rural county, that outside of the touristy areas is dying.

It seems we're both against low density sprawl. How will expanding the city functional area into the area identified by MacKinnon mitigate this? What will City council do different?

We've created generations of car dependant commuters with wholly inadequate infrastructure. With the identified housing need, where do we build the houses? Further out beyond the current sprawl? More commuters in cars? You keep mentioning the rezoning is poor planning/anti in sustainabile, but where do you think we should build the houses that are needed?

To answer your last question. Very simply. How about filling up the lands Cork County Council and CASP have already zoned in sensible locations. Near jobs, public transport, schools, town centres, existing infrastructure. This notion that Cork doesn't have enough zoned land is absolute fiction. But the landowners and builders seem to have bent the will of the council.

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

To answer your last question. Very simply. How about filling up the lands Cork County Council and CASP have already zoned in sensible locations. Near jobs, public transport, schools, town centres, existing infrastructure. This notion that Cork doesn't have enough zoned land is absolute fiction. But the landowners and builders seem to have bent the will of the council.

I've asked you before for specific maps/areas rather than generalisations...

(In the absence of any such specifics, I'm guessimg these are areas that developing would only aggravate what MacKinnon is decrying...)

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

mire wrote: »

To answer your last question. Very simply. How about filling up the lands Cork County Council and CASP have already zoned in sensible locations. Near jobs, public transport, schools, town centres, existing infrastructure. This notion that Cork doesn't have enough zoned land is absolute fiction. But the landowners and builders seem to have bent the will of the council.

I've asked you before for specific maps/areas rather than generalisations...

(In the absence of any such specifics, I'm guessimg these are areas that developing would only aggravate what MacKinnon is decrying...)

The existing zoned lands in the various local area plans around Metropolitan Cork. These are easy to look up on corklocalareaplans website. The Strategic Plans Reserves are highlighted, it'll be obvious to you when you see.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

They have a big county with a number of large county towns to Develop and 30 million a year from the city for 10 years ,they also won’t spend a penny in the areas the city will takeover .

What are it's (the City Councils) plans? I asked a few times, but nothing so far. What is there to be excited about? It'd be nice to know what they are planning.

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

Of course it matters the Kerry people would have had a choice to move to another part of Kerry. My kids did not, Cork City has run out of room to grow.

Of course your kids had a choice. Are you seriously trying to say there wasn't a single property for them to choose from? Just rubbish.

And you mention Dublin, just after you say it's nothing to do with Dublin. A Global city (with 500k)? So after all that, it is about size and ego.

If Cork city needs to grow, then select green-fields only and grow. That wasn't the aim of the land grab. There are parts that of course should be integrated into the city (and the County are a problem for refusing it); but some people only fault on one side.

Patrick 1959

munstermagic11 wrote: »

What are it's (the City Councils) plans? I asked a few times, but nothing so far. What is there to be excited about? It'd be nice to know what they are planning.


Of course your kids had a choice. Are you seriously trying to say there wasn't a single property for them to choose from? Just rubbish.

And you mention Dublin, just after you say it's nothing to do with Dublin. A Global city (with 500k)? So after all that, it is about size and ego.

If Cork city needs to grow, then select green-fields only and grow. That wasn't the aim of the land grab. There are parts that of course should be integrated into the city (and the County are a problem for refusing it); but some people only fault on one side.

The rail lines from cork city to Middleton and Blarney to the City . Huge Population growth along these corridors. A tram or some type of lightrail from Docklands to Ballincollig, The Northern Ring Road, anew Road link from the Bandon Road flyover to the Airport (possible continuing onto the new Ringaskiddy motorway) did you not hear of any of these plans? . The 500,000 population is in the 2050 plan for the new Cork City . You say “if Cork City needs to grow select green-fields only and grow “ what Planet are you on ? Where are these green fields? Will we avoid or by pass urban areas on the Boundary put all the services (water drainage gas electric roads) when there already along the railway corridors surburbs and satellite towns. What are the areas your propose should be given to the City ?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

The rail lines from cork city to Middleton and Blarney to the City . Huge Population growth along these corridors. A tram or some type of lightrail from Docklands to Ballincollig, The Northern Ring Road, anew Road link from the Bandon Road flyover to the Airport (possible continuing onto the new Ringaskiddy motorway) did you not hear of any of these plans? .

Plans?
The rail from the City to Midleton exists (why is Midleton in this?).
A tram or lightrail? Can you link to those? You think the plan is have these built? They might be murmured, but that's as far as it currently goes (bus corridors seem to be the commitment).
North Ring road? Bandon Road flyover to the Airport? Guaranteed committed developments?
We heard of all of these for some time. Just like the Events Center.

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

what Planet are you on ?

Planet reality.
Green fields. Open areas ready and waiting for development (if that's what the desire is).

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

What are the areas your propose should be given to the City ?

Already stated in the thread.

Patrick 1959

Your are very negative to every answer I’ve given to you on my view of the Boundary Extension. You don’t seem to see anything positive in the Boundary Extension, you seem to begrudgingly say “ green fields. “Open area ready and waiting for development. (If that’s what the desire is ) “ . That’s not what the “desire” is .we need a Boundary Extension with room enough to grow till the end of the century.What plans “Guaranteed committed developments “had the County Council given for metropolitan cork .The status quo can’t continue ,I honestly think the city will get all they are looking for (Carrigtwohill been the gray area ) piece meal boundary extension is just kicking the can down the road apiece.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

Your are very negative to every answer I’ve given to you on my view of the Boundary Extension.

I'm neutral on your view towards the boundary extension. Your view, and mine, doesn't really matter (aside from having a debate on it). What the City Council do with the extension (good and bad) and how it impacts the City/County (good and bad) is where I'd be more emotional.

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

You don’t seem to see anything positive in the Boundary Extension

If that was the case then I wouldn't be for the City getting Douglas, Model Farm Rd........
I just don't think the extension is suddenly some 'fix it all' in the short or long term.

So what if the City has a jump in population? It doesn't seem an issue for the big name companies we already have. It certainly doesn't change anything in the short term.

Long term it's part of a plan to get to 500k? And be a challenger to Dublin? Dublin might be 3m by that stage.
Will it be done correctly? Will we just be Dublin mini? I've lived in Dublin; mini or not, no thanks.

Maybe that leads my thinking. Maybe I don't have much faith in the City Council. Maybe it's the blatant land/rates grab the City Council have targeted to let Cork County poorer off (they aren't very interested in the payoff deal). Maybe it's the negativity towards Cork County's stance; they are greedy/self-interested, but it's ok for the City to be greedy/self-interested). Maybe the County Council should manage the whole thing for the benefit of Cork (ok, lets not get into that single entity debate ).

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

you seem to begrudgingly say “ green fields.

Not begrudgingly at all. The City could grow into these areas if growth is the requirement. Go more South West and North East in their plan, and remove Ballincollig and Little Island. There's your boundary extension with plenty of room. Not saying they shouldn't be included, but they're targeting these areas (like Carrigtwohill) for rea$on$ (not a typo) other than growth or feeling stifled.

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

What plans “Guaranteed committed developments “had the County Council given for metropolitan cork .

If the idea is to answer a question with a question, then we'd be here for eternity:)
The plans are put forward by the City, they want the areas, they want the extension. Just asking what they will do in the next ~10yrs that strengthens their arguments. It's public money, not theirs, so I'd like to know. This may go back to my lack of faith in them (and others) given my age and the amount of times I heard the same guff (lies) from political bodies. Actions, not words, is key when political promises are mentioned.

Patrick 1959

Passage West should be included in city boundary extension. It’s an industry town on the outskirts of the urban city. I can see why from Monkstown down the Harbour will get special treatment for scenic views,boating , water activity’s. Passage is a great town known for its industrial past and Docks, urban in its background . Unfortunately it could be looked as the poor relation in the new Harbour plan.

Roger Hassenforder

To:

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I've asked you before for specific maps/areas rather than generalisations...

(In the absence of any such specifics, I'm guessimg these are areas that developing would only aggravate what MacKinnon is decrying...)

I get:

mire wrote: »

The existing zoned lands in the various local area plans around Metropolitan Cork. These are easy to look up on corklocalareaplans website. The Strategic Plans Reserves are highlighted, it'll be obvious to you when you see.

No link?
No drawing?

Go one, name one place where you think we should stick loads of houses, that doesn't aggravate the existing situation, that which MacKinnon decries regarding current housing development policies, and where there is infrastructural capacity...

One area.
One specific area we can tease out its merits..


I'll give you one:
What about Ballyvolane UEA?
Contrary to all you hold dear, or probably a good idea subject to infrastructure going in...?

Do you seriously want people sitting in their cars commuting miles on the byroads and highways of Cork?

Roger Hassenforder

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

Passage West should be included in city boundary extension. It’s an industry town on the outskirts of the urban city. I can see why from Monkstown down the Harbour will get special treatment for scenic views,boating , water activity’s. Passage is a great town known for its industrial past and Docks, urban in its background . Unfortunately it could be looked as the poor relation in the new Harbour plan.

"However we do not think that the city council area should include Passage West, Monkstown, Ringaskiddy, or Carrigaline to allow the greater
harbour area to be treated as a single economic unit. Equally, more rural parts of the hinterland of the city, such as Ballygarvan to the south and Dripsey and Greenfort to the west, should not be included in the city council area–this is because we do not feel that the medium to long term needs of the city require extension of the boundary to these areas, while a less extensive area could help incentivise higher density development within the city"

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

To:

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I've asked you before for specific maps/areas rather than generalisations...

(In the absence of any such specifics, I'm guessimg these are areas that developing would only aggravate what MacKinnon is decrying...)

I get:

mire wrote: »

The existing zoned lands in the various local area plans around Metropolitan Cork. These are easy to look up on corklocalareaplans website. The Strategic Plans Reserves are highlighted, it'll be obvious to you when you see.

No link?
No drawing?

Go one, name one place where you think we should stick loads of houses, that doesn't aggravate the existing situation, that which MacKinnon decries regarding current housing development policies, and where there is infrastructural capacity...

One area.
One specific area we can tease out its merits..


I'll give you one:
What about Ballyvolane UEA?
Contrary to all you hold dear, or probably a good idea subject to infrastructure going in...?

Do you seriously want people sitting in their cars commuting miles on the byroads and highways of Cork?

Look up the local area plans, do I really need to go further? See Cork County councils Core Strategy. See CASP. It's not hard.

Huge untapped capacity for housing in existing designated lands. Midleton, Carrigtwohill, Cobh, Ballincollig South, blarney, stoneview, a new town at Monard,. That's in addition to huge capacity in city centre.

However, instead of trying to deliver these sites, and accessing outstanding infrastructure issues, Cork County Council had allowed itself to be persuaded by certain landowner and development interests to rezone hundreds of hectares of greenfield sites in addition to the above. This in fact undermines the core zonings. It's the opposite of good planning.

The ballyvolane proposal is one of the worst of these. It's classic suburban sprawl. If you think ballyvolane is a credible proposal, then you really know very little about the difference between good and bad planning.

Reputable Rog

I would really like to know how the City propose to pay for this boundary extension?

Patrick 1959

If that was the case then I wouldn't be for the City getting Douglas, Model Farm Rd........

These are built up areas and will be restricted by the proposed county new boundary.with no room or very little to expand. Also the total shambles the County Council have left the whole of Douglas Village in is gong to cost millions to sort out.
So what if the City has a jump in population? It doesn't seem an issue for the big name companies we already have. It certainly doesn't change anything in the short term.
I rember reading an interview with the late property develope Michael o Callaghan he was saying that when talking to major international retailers trying to woo them to cork he would constantly have to explain about the population of urban cork city been double the size it was been protray as. Long term it's part of a plan to get to 500k? And be a challenger to Dublin? Dublin might be 3m by that stage.
Will it be done correctly? Will we just be Dublin mini? I've lived in Dublin; mini or not, no thanks.
No the 500,000 population is not to challenge Dublin (Dublin is miles ahead in population and infrastructure) the government and cork 2050 plan is to keep on par with Belfast. Belfast is a global city Cork needs to become a global city also. This is new government policy, other city’s in this government mix are Athlone, Drogheda ,Sligo, Limerick.
Maybe that leads my thinking. Maybe I don't have much faith in the City Council. Maybe it's the blatant land/rates grab the City Council have targeted to let Cork County poorer off (they aren't very interested in the payoff deal). Maybe it's the negativity towards Cork County's stance; they are greedy/self-interested, but it's ok for the City to be greedy/self-interested.

The old corporation at the beginning of the new state done great work for the City,clearing slums in the 1920s and 1930s and building lower Gruanabraher , Greenmount,Turners X. 1940s and 1950s upper Gruanabraher,Churchfield,Ballyphane ,Farrenree . They clear the last slums in the 1960s building Mayfield,Togher,The Glen. So you have to give credit to them,the Government took a lot power away from them rebranding the Corporation as Cork City council. My point is ,with the bigger city population the City Council will get more self autonomy and be treated as a proper City and not like now “a county town”.
Not begrudgingly at all. The City could grow into these areas if growth is the requirement. Go more South West and North East in their plan, and remove Ballincollig and Little Island. There's your boundary extension with plenty of room. Not saying they shouldn't be included, but they're targeting these areas (like Carrigtwohill) for rea$on$ (not a typo) other than growth or feeling stifled.

Surely it would be easier and cheaper for the City to connect to the existing satellite towns with the infrastructure,bus routes railway lines motorways already in place .The county council will not sort out the horrendous traffic in little island (like Douglas,Forge Hill) because they are worried that City Council will eventually take charge of the area. Traffic is so bad there it will stop new investment to the island.

Patrick 1959

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I would really like to know how the City propose to pay for this boundary extension?

Simple answer I don’t know, I imagine through the rates generated in there. Cork county council were at pains to tell City Council they’ll make 16 Million a year from meager Extension they offered . I heard 80 million plus in rates for the area the wants.

Reputable Rog

What powers did the City lose when renamed as the City Council?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

If that................... the island.

iPad or not, I'm not reading through that mess.
I've used an iPad and phone to message in here; it can take a bit longer, but a bit of effort can make it legible.

Patrick 1959

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

"However we do not think that the city council area should include Passage West, Monkstown, Ringaskiddy, or Carrigaline to allow the greater
harbour area to be treated as a single economic unit. Equally, more rural parts of the hinterland of the city, such as Ballygarvan to the south and Dripsey and Greenfort to the west, should not be included in the city council area–this is because we do not feel that the medium to long term needs of the city require extension of the boundary to these areas, while a less extensive area could help incentivise higher density development within the city"

These areas other than Passage I don’t know never heard of Greenfort ii don’t think it’s in the Harbour area . Passage is in the Harbour area I think it will loose out big time, as it is more urban/lndustrial .it would do better in the city. Be interesting to hear local opinions.

Patrick 1959

munstermagic11 wrote: »

iPad or not, I'm not reading through that mess.
I've used an iPad and phone to message in here; it can take a bit longer, but a bit of effort can make it legible.

You might find this hard to believe but I don’t own a phone and l am learning to using this I pad for less than a year, try to get use posting a lot less .that post took me 1 hour to finish so I can tell you I did put a lot of effort into it .if you feel annoyed with my post ,don’t be rude just don’t answer.