Cork council merger plans to be axed but extension of city boundary recommended

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

I laughed at the bit about the county council being strict on retail development; see Douglas, which was encouraged and permitted by the county council. Your commentary on the density of the enlarged city is equally deluded and misinformed.

Of course once you've recovered from laughing, you'll be exposing this posters delusion, and mitigate his state of being misinformed with verifiable facts...

I see another Press release from Co. Hall is doing exactly this to County Hall, using verifiable facts against the rhetoric and hysteria that passes for debate in City Hall lately.
https://www.corkcoco.ie/news/latest-statement-county-mayor-relation-boundary-issue-0


we're not going to have a better Cork with this nonsense, and we're going to have a sprawl with McKinnon.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Of course once you've recovered from laughing, you'll be exposing this posters delusion, and mitigate his state of being misinformed with verifiable facts...

I see another Press release from Co. Hall is doing exactly this to County Hall, using verifiable facts against the rhetoric and hysteria that passes for debate in City Hall lately.
https://www.corkcoco.ie/news/latest-statement-county-mayor-relation-boundary-issue-0


we're not going to have a better Cork with this nonsense, and we're going to have a sprawl with McKinnon.

the county mayor's latest statement is even more bizarre. and desparate. ''cork city is aging faster than cork county'' wtf??

"we're going to have a sprawl with McKinnon"

this nonsense also made me laugh

you asked for facts. read mckinnion, bovaird and the 'minority' report. you might discover some evidence, researched and written by experts. you clearly have not.

CHealy

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Of course once you've recovered from laughing, you'll be exposing this posters delusion, and mitigate his state of being misinformed with verifiable facts...

I see another Press release from Co. Hall is doing exactly this to County Hall, using verifiable facts against the rhetoric and hysteria that passes for debate in City Hall lately.
https://www.corkcoco.ie/news/latest-statement-county-mayor-relation-boundary-issue-0


we're not going to have a better Cork with this nonsense, and we're going to have a sprawl with McKinnon.

Thats some statement from County Hall, ring of desperation off it.

j8wk2feszrnpao

mire wrote: »

the county mayor's latest statement is even more bizarre. and desparate. ''cork city is aging faster than cork county'' wtf??

"we're going to have a sprawl with McKinnon"

this nonsense also made me laugh

you asked for facts. read mckinnion, bovaird and the 'minority' report. you might discover some evidence, researched and written by experts. you clearly have not.

Why are you so bitter with your attitude?

The City Council are not exactly an exemplary bunch that we can pin our hopes on. Neither Council have handled this very well. They both are interested in their own self interests, is this really a surprise to people?
The City could do with the extra space, but out to Carrigtwohill? If it didn't have the business park, they wouldn't even blink at the place.

mire

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Why are you so bitter with your attitude?

The City Council are not exactly an exemplary bunch that we can pin our hopes on. Neither Council have handled this very well. They both are interested in their own self interests, is this really a surprise to people?
The City could do with the extra space, but out to Carrigtwohill? If it didn't have the business park, they wouldn't even blink at the place.

have you read the mckinnion report?

Reputable Rog

mire wrote: »

have you read the mckinnion report?

Never heard of it, there is a MacKinnon report doing the rounds though.

D'Agger

That County Hall statement seems to have a vibe of: "We're not being díckheads, you're being the díckheads."

They've referenced a County satisfaction survey stating over 90% positive re: living in the county, but I don't see it in the references - instead there's a City satisfaction survey that's 13years old - whether it's City or County - that's classic Council stuff right there.

j8wk2feszrnpao

mire wrote: »

have you read the mckinnion report?

No I haven't read the MacKinnon Report, nor do I plan to.
There's enough spin from both sides for me to not care about their press releases either.
My judgement on this is just my own opinion. I don't claim to be an expert, I'm not going to pretend to be one, nor am I in a position to bash others.

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

the county mayor's latest statement is even more bizarre. and desparate. ''cork city is aging faster than cork county'' wtf??

"we're going to have a sprawl with McKinnon"

this nonsense also made me laugh

you asked for facts. read mckinnion, bovaird and the 'minority' report. you might discover some evidence, researched and written by experts. you clearly have not.

the last thread was closed because of such childish petulance

I've no intention of trawling through these reports (again) to establish "facts". or determine the source of your merriment. Cite your evidence yourself, you know how this works...

& seeing as you've referenced him, indulge me, what does Bovaird say on a new boundary...where does he draw the proverbial line...?

flaneur

If the two

mire

munstermagic11 wrote: »

mire wrote: »

have you read the mckinnion report?

No I haven't read the MacKinnon Report, nor do I plan to.
There's enough spin from both sides for me to not care about their press releases either.
My judgement on this is just my own opinion. I don't claim to be an expert, I'm not going to pretend to be one, nor am I in a position to bash others.

Fair enough.

mire

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

mire wrote: »

the county mayor's latest statement is even more bizarre. and desparate. ''cork city is aging faster than cork county'' wtf??

"we're going to have a sprawl with McKinnon"

this nonsense also made me laugh

you asked for facts. read mckinnion, bovaird and the 'minority' report. you might discover some evidence, researched and written by experts. you clearly have not.

the last thread was closed because of such childish petulance

I've no intention of trawling through these reports (again) to establish "facts". or determine the source of your merriment. Cite your evidence yourself, you know how this works...

& seeing as you've referenced him, indulge me, what does Bovaird say on a new boundary...where does he draw the proverbial line...?

I have no problem engaging in a robust debate. I think your post was nonsensical, and I don't think I'm being insulting or rude in highlighting that. Please don't take this personally.

Bovaird did not propose a definite line. It was a peer review of the majority and minority reports. It dismissed the smiddy (Majority) report, pointing to a lack of empirical evidence and suggested that the minority report's suggestion of a substantial boundary extension was the clear favorite, based on international evidence, and best practice in local government. It demolished the smiddy proposal for a merger. It suggested that this option was simply not supported by evidence.

The two local authorities are not covering themselves in glory right now. But the pr being produced by Cork County Council is a result of their childish reaction to being told by the local government committee that it's time now to allow the city to expand its boundaries, after fifty years of resistance.

It's ridiculous to argue against a boundary extension at this stage. It is my understanding that the government are not too pleased at the pr coming from the two bodies, and intend to implement the recommendations of McKinnon because it's now viewed as being of national importance. Despite the increasingly desperate protests from county hall. They've resisted this for too long it appears and there seems to be no rationale to this any more, beyond hail Mary arguments about leader funding and farmers in carrigtwohill.

Roger Hassenforder

mire wrote: »

I have no problem engaging in a robust debate. I think your post was nonsensical, and I don't think I'm being insulting or rude in highlighting that. Please don't take this personally.

Bovaird did not propose a definite line. It was a peer review of the majority and minority reports. It dismissed the smiddy (Majority) report, pointing to a lack of empirical evidence and suggested that the minority report's suggestion of a substantial boundary extension was the clear favorite, based on international evidence, and best practice in local government. It demolished the smiddy proposal for a merger. It suggested that this option was simply not supported by evidence.

The two local authorities are not covering themselves in glory right now. But the pr being produced by Cork County Council is a result of their childish reaction to being told by the local government committee that it's time now to allow the city to expand its boundaries, after fifty years of resistance.

It's ridiculous to argue against a boundary extension at this stage. It is my understanding that the government are not too pleased at the pr coming from the two bodies, and intend to implement the recommendations of McKinnon because it's now viewed as being of national importance. Despite the increasingly desperate protests from county hall. They've resisted this for too long it appears and there seems to be no rationale to this any more, beyond hail Mary arguments about leader funding and farmers in carrigtwohill.

Good man, that's more like it!
If your dismissing a post as nonsense, you're expected to back it up. We've opinions, yours as valid as mine. I've yet to dismiss anyone's as nonsense without justifying the dismissal.

Refer to the OP, we're discussing boundary options not the merits or otherwise of the merger. That horse has bolted!

I expect the MacKinnon line to be regarded as the new Metropolitan Cork Area, given some sort of statutory authority status (a regional authority with a bit of clout), a sop to both and City to get more than what the County were offering.

It's turned into a farce now though with the tit-for-tat press releases. The Government will stay well clear of forcing through MacKinnon, Irish politics will emerge in the end, nothing like the thought of losing ones seat to focus the minds of an Irish politician.

Reputable Rog

mire wrote: »

I have no problem engaging in a robust debate. I think your post was nonsensical, and I don't think I'm being insulting or rude in highlighting that. Please don't take this personally.

Bovaird did not propose a definite line. It was a peer review of the majority and minority reports. It dismissed the smiddy (Majority) report, pointing to a lack of empirical evidence and suggested that the minority report's suggestion of a substantial boundary extension was the clear favorite, based on international evidence, and best practice in local government. It demolished the smiddy proposal for a merger. It suggested that this option was simply not supported by evidence.

The two local authorities are not covering themselves in glory right now. But the pr being produced by Cork County Council is a result of their childish reaction to being told by the local government committee that it's time now to allow the city to expand its boundaries, after fifty years of resistance.

It's ridiculous to argue against a boundary extension at this stage. It is my understanding that the government are not too pleased at the pr coming from the two bodies, and intend to implement the recommendations of McKinnon because it's now viewed as being of national importance. Despite the increasingly desperate protests from county hall. They've resisted this for too long it appears and there seems to be no rationale to this any more, beyond hail Mary arguments about leader funding and farmers in carrigtwohill.

The first approach was made in 2005 and at the time nothing was formally presented, the next approach came in 2015, so how can you say they've resisted it for too long. Bit hard to oppose something they had no real knowledge of, a bit like moaning that the girl up the street won't go out with you if you've never asked her out in the first place.
The County signed up to this Metropoitan Cork nonsense and unfortunately for them it's coming back to bite them in the arse.

Water John

If their websites are anything to go by, the County wins hands down. Wanted to just check boundary maps. City website, sweet nothing, County Website, maps of each municipal area.

pwurple

Water John wrote: »

If their websites are anything to go by, the County wins hands down. Wanted to just check boundary maps. City website, sweet nothing, County Website, maps of each municipal area.

County council is loaded.

But yeah, I agree with you. Try to get your hands on a bus map in this city...

flaneur

pwurple wrote: »

County council is loaded.

But yeah, I agree with you. Try to get your hands on a bus map in this city...

That would be CIE’s fault. They’ve difficulty understanding anything other than “Dublin” and “Down the country" thus lumped the other cities bus networks in with national and rural routes.

Water John

Know of a external financial review of County done some years ago. The person involved was very impressed with Council's finances and systems. He would have experience of private and public and he said it was top notch.

KCAccidental

pwurple wrote: »

County council is loaded.

But yeah, I agree with you. Try to get your hands on a bus map in this city...

https://www.transportforireland.ie/journey-planner/maps/

namloc1980

flaneur wrote: »

That would be CIE’s fault. They’ve difficulty understanding anything other than “Dublin” and “Down the country" thus lumped the other cities bus networks in with national and rural routes.

Transport for Ireland / NTA have ownership of maps/route planners etc.

KCAccidental

I, for one, enjoyed this spicy take from twitter

https://twitter.com/TheJokersThief/status/901837834293796866

Water John

Good Cork tradition. Any thing that turns a buck.

nyck04

Water John wrote: »

Know of a external financial review of County done some years ago. The person involved was very impressed with Council's finances and systems. He would have experience of private and public and he said it was top notch.

Both Cork City and County Council use JD Edwards as their Financial System.

Roger Hassenforder

nyck04 wrote: »

Both Cork City and County Council use JD Edwards as their Financial System.

County haven't used JD in a few years
Integra now

nyck04

Ok. Wasn't aware of the change.

mire

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Smiddy-launches-scathing-criticism-of-Cork-City-Council-over-boundary-issue-f1ed4d42-be12-4fcb-a4f8-bc0bb7968b74-ds

Poor Alf*, he's losing the plot. Showing his true colours.

* This is the same person who had been tasked with chairing the first local government review group for Cork. Is it any wonder his report has been widely discredited and that he managed to split the committee?

Reputable Rog

mire wrote: »

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Smiddy-launches-scathing-criticism-of-Cork-City-Council-over-boundary-issue-f1ed4d42-be12-4fcb-a4f8-bc0bb7968b74-ds

Poor Alf*, he's losing the plot. Showing his true colours.

* This is the same person who had been tasked with chairing the first local government review group for Cork. Is it any wonder his report has been widely discredited and that he managed to split the committee?

He makes some good points about the City but should shuffle off now and stay out of the debate.

kub

mire wrote: »

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Smiddy-launches-scathing-criticism-of-Cork-City-Council-over-boundary-issue-f1ed4d42-be12-4fcb-a4f8-bc0bb7968b74-ds

Poor Alf*, he's losing the plot. Showing his true colours.

* This is the same person who had been tasked with chairing the first local government review group for Cork. Is it any wonder his report has been widely discredited and that he managed to split the committee?

Now that is a guy with a chip on his shoulder.

FrStone

mire wrote: »

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Smiddy-launches-scathing-criticism-of-Cork-City-Council-over-boundary-issue-f1ed4d42-be12-4fcb-a4f8-bc0bb7968b74-ds

Poor Alf*, he's losing the plot. Showing his true colours.

* This is the same person who had been tasked with chairing the first local government review group for Cork. Is it any wonder his report has been widely discredited and that he managed to split the committee?

He hit the nail on the head.

kub

FrStone wrote: »

He hit the nail on the head.

By telling a known international urban planner that he is wrong ?

I wonder, what is Smiddy anyway, an accountant is it and also used to be the boss of Beamish and Crawford ?

He also told 2 professors from UCC who were part of his team that they were wrong to vote against the amalgamation, again what would these people know?