Crusaders v Lions match thread

Squidgy Black

Buer wrote: »

Can play at weekend but can't play against the Highlanders. Probably wouldn't have anyway.

I would say Gatland will want to look at something like Joseph or Henshaw at 13 and take a look at one of the alternative options at full back i.e. Williams, Payne etc.

Could see Daly at 13, Payne at 15.

Wasn't as impressed with Teo'o as some on here, his hands were poor and he butchered one try in particular to Williams. Wasn't too impressed by North or Williams either in the back 3, they didn't get much ball but also didn't contest Murray's kicks particularly well. The Lions were lucky that the Crusaders back 3 had a bit of a nightmare in the air even when unchallenged. Thought the pack could easily be the starting pack but Warburton will inevitably come back in and that will probably force a change at 6 too.

swiwi_

Well, as a Crusaders supporter I'm naturally disappointed, but from a neutral perspective this was a great result for the tour.

The Lions defence, albeit occasionally offside and not penalised, was quite excellent. Several Lions players locked their names into the test side, not least Conor Murray whose box-kicking was simply outstanding! The Lions line-out was also extremely solid, but the Crusaders scrum was a little bit rode by the French ref, especially the scrum penalty at about 5 minutes to go before half-time.

For the Crusaders, Taufua showed just why he will never be an AB with a poorish display, Hall was too slow at 9, Mounga couldn't cope with the line speed, and Crotty was badly missed at 12. Poor old Bridge was all at sea at 11 on the kicks.

The only downside for the Lions: the passing out wide cost tries yet again.

The tour is back on track, and I suspect thus that some of the forum who've been looking down their noses at the Lions series will be eyeing the bandwagon in 2 minds.

It's fantastic for NZ rugby to get exposed to a different style, I'd like to think the French refs can get the scrum calls right though.

Bring on the Highlanders!

ScrubsfanChris

Buer wrote: »

Can play at weekend but can't play against the Highlanders. Probably wouldn't have anyway.

I would say Gatland will want to look at something like Joseph or Henshaw at 13 and take a look at one of the alternative options at full back i.e. Williams, Payne etc.

Yeah you're right
Thats what i meant to say. My brain forgot about the midweek game

Press Conferences....
Jones loves them

Dog Botherer

PTH2009 wrote: »

Did anyone ever fall over doing the haka ???

The choreograph of the dance is amazing. World non new zealinders in the club teams be allowed do the ritual or would they observe ??

Oli Jager did the haka with the provincial BaaBaas.

budhabob

Outside of the obvious Murray,I thought Sexton and POM had great games!

Bazzo

No offense to any of our resident Kiwis or anything but if a Kiwi ever unironically tells me that the Irish are known for whinging about refs again I'll laugh at them.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

No offense to any of our resident Kiwis or anything but if a Kiwi ever unironically tells me that the Irish are known for whinging about refs again I'll laugh at them.

Most of us kiwis wouldn't be Crusaders supporters, therefore we're completely neutral and any criticism of the standard of refereeing is completely valid :pac:

Korat

Sean O'Brien opperates at another level when he goes S'uddern Hemis'feerin.

Great show by Seanie and POM this morning.

Buer

Going by the comments here and some of the Irish reporting I've listened to since the game, it will be a shocking travesty if POM and SOB don't both start the tests.

Smart comments aside, they went well but I wouldn't have had either in the top 3 Lions on the field.

irishbucsfan

Bazzo wrote: »

No offense to any of our resident Kiwis or anything but if a Kiwi ever unironically tells me that the Irish are known for whinging about refs again I'll laugh at them.

Justin Marshall was complaining about kiwi fans after the game, saying their bleating about the ref was "stereotypical"

Korat

Buer wrote: »

Going by the comments here and some of the Irish reporting I've listened to since the game, it will be a shocking travesty if POM and SOB don't both start the tests.

Smart comments aside, they went well but I wouldn't have had either in the top 3 Lions on the field.

Faletau went well too. I thinks it's Stander or POM at 6 with SOB at 7 right now.

Major improvements all round but they're dead heads running in the midfield with Warrenball.

bmwguy

Korat wrote: »

Faletau went well too. I thinks it's Stander or POM at 6 with SOB at 7 right now.

Very unlikely Warburton won't start 7 in the first test. He's not the best player but is tour captain despite what Gatland says.

Buer

I'd agree. In 2013, SOB was absolutely tearing it up in the warm ups at openside but a half fit Warburton started the first test where he was average. In fairness, he had a sensational second test but it took an injury for Gatland to bring SOB in to start in the final test.

Blindside is probably the single hardest spot to call. I think Gatland sees SOB as an openside and won't play him there meaning he's possibly competing for the 20 jersey at best. It's rotten luck to go on two Lions tours and look like potentially the best player in your position but have the captain playing that position too.

Moriarty had a great opening game but it was against weaker opposition to that has to be factored in. POM went well today but not well enough to suggest he absolutely has to be starting. Stander has had a similar level of performance...probably slightly less polished with a few errors between his two showings.

I think it's a straight call between those 3. Don't rule out Moriarty at all. Remember he started 3 tests for Wales against NZ last summer and went really well. We'll know a lot from the team that's named for Wednesday.

If I had to guess though, I'd say POM is in the driving seat. Gatland likes a good jumper in his back row. He went with Croft in the opening test last time. I'd venture that Stander, Tipuric and Moriarty will start on Wednesday with Warburton possibly featuring from the bench if fit to get him 30 minutes of pitch time. Faletau, Warburton and POM against the Maori team with SOB at 20.

Korat

Yeah I think the Test side was picked months maybe years ago, only Sexton is playing his was out of contention.

swiwi_

Bazzo wrote: »

No offense to any of our resident Kiwis or anything but if a Kiwi ever unironically tells me that the Irish are known for whinging about refs again I'll laugh at them.

Ah now, Kiwis don't whinge, they bleat :pac:

typhoony

if a masterclass in kicking from a scrum-half is your thing then you'll have enjoyed the game, but not for me i find the style of play which Gatland has this Lions team playing completely underwhelming. I'm seriously considering not watching any more games, although I will watch the Chiefs game as they play the game the way it should be played and nothing to do with the game the Chiefs will put in an thrilling performance in the Haka competition, the crusaders was a step up from last weeks Haka

twinytwo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Warburton needs a big game in his next outing or Gatland will drop him.

I can see a backrow of Itoje SOB and Faletau as a possibility now. I hope SOB stays fit as he looked very bright today. Stander on the bench gives good cover.

Jamie George was very solid too.

Some big calls to be made in the backs.

Short of injury - Warburton is starting. No way Gatland is going to drop him regardless of who plays better.


Furlong, George, Itoje. Murray and Farrell all test starters fro me at this stage

Ardillaun

twinytwo wrote: »

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Warburton needs a big game in his next outing or Gatland will drop him.

I can see a backrow of Itoje SOB and Faletau as a possibility now. I hope SOB stays fit as he looked very bright today. Stander on the bench gives good cover.

Jamie George was very solid too.

Some big calls to be made in the backs.

Short of injury - Warburton is starting. No way Gatland is going to drop him regardless of who plays better.


Furlong, George, Itoje. Murray and Farrell all test starters fro me at this stage

Gotta say I'm concerned about that scrum performance today. Another ref might have interpreted it very differently. We got away with a few there. I hope more training together will improve the cohesion of the front five before the Tests.

Webbs

twinytwo wrote: »

Short of injury - Warburton is starting. No way Gatland is going to drop him regardless of who plays better.


Furlong, George, Itoje. Murray and Farrell all test starters fro me at this stage

Itoje on the bench for me, will have massive impact coming on for last half an hour. Other options dont offer same.
For me its AWJ and Kruis as starters at the moment
I would also have Vuinipola as a nailed on starter after his performances so far
North will also start

Yeah_Right

Bazzo wrote: »

No offense to any of our resident Kiwis or anything but if a Kiwi ever unironically tells me that the Irish are known for whinging about refs again I'll laugh at them.

Has there been a lot of whinging about the ref from kiws? Genuine question as I haven't had time yet to go through all the usual websites for write ups about the match. Now if you post a link to an article by Rattue or Devlin then you need to give yourself an uppercut and reevaluate your life choices.

I didn't get to watch the game live and only saw the replay after I read this thread. I had to double check that I was watching the right match because in the game I saw, the Crusaders clearly had the dominant scrum.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Has there been a lot of whinging about the ref from kiws? Genuine question as I haven't had time yet to go through all the usual websites for write ups about the match. Now if you post a link to an article by Rattue or Devlin then you need to give yourself an uppercut and reevaluate your life choices.

I didn't get to watch the game live and only saw the replay after I read this thread. I had to double check that I was watching the right match because in the game I saw, the Crusaders clearly had the dominant scrum.

No, they were dominated. Check the penalty count.

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Has there been a lot of whinging about the ref from kiws? Genuine question as I haven't had time yet to go through all the usual websites for write ups about the match. Now if you post a link to an article by Rattue or Devlin then you need to give yourself an uppercut and reevaluate your life choices.

I didn't get to watch the game live and only saw the replay after I read this thread. I had to double check that I was watching the right match because in the game I saw, the Crusaders clearly had the dominant scrum.

As I said somewhere earlier in the thread, Justin Marshall said after the match that he was disappointed by the crowd moaning about the referee and he claimed it was 'stereotypical of new zealanders when their teams lose' but they should just accept they were well beaten.

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Has there been a lot of whinging about the ref from kiws? Genuine question as I haven't had time yet to go through all the usual websites for write ups about the match. Now if you post a link to an article by Rattue or Devlin then you need to give yourself an uppercut and reevaluate your life choices.

There was certainly some initial gnashing of teeth and some knee jerk complaints (one article complained that it was the biggest farce since Barnes in 2007) but, after calming down, I think the NZ reaction has been fairly reasoned. Even your pal Rattue was relatively sanguine about the whole thing:

The Kiwi rugby mob has a nasty habit of blaming referees when things don't go to plan. As baffling as Mathieu Raynal was at times, particularly at scrums, the Crusaders were beaten fair and square.

Or Justin Marshall:

I know there has been criticism of referee Mathieu Raynal, but there's no point in complaining, it's about adapting, and the Lions certainly adapted better. I could hear that he wasn't communicating much, so the players had to be self-disciplined and the Crusaders lost on that score too.

The best piece of criticism is a piece in the NZH which has a pop at Vunipola who was "not impressed" with the Crusaders haka. The evidence? He scratched his ear during the performance. I think the Lions tour is due to hit media saturation point in the coming week or two based on that...

Yeah_Right

I hadn't seen Marshall's comments. If he was referring to the booing, I actually thought it was quite mild for ChCh crowd. Sorry Swiwi

I certainly didn't see any major mistakes from the ref. A few times that the defence were offside (both teams) but the blame for that falls on the entire officiating team, not just the ref. A couple of his scrum rulings were puzzling as the only team that went backwards was the Lions. I di like that he would tell them to play it if the front rows went down and the ball was at the 8's feet.

I get the impression that the B&I media are trying to push a siege mentality.

RichieRich89

Did this game highlight the limitations of the Canterbury way of attacking? The Crusaders lost 38-7 against England in 2014, and now this. Oppressive European defences seem to be able to shut down the wide-wide game and frustrate the Crusaders. I think they need some options coming back against the grain to hold the defence. Other NZ teams seem to have a bit more variety in the way they attack